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-   -   Adoption vs Abortion (http://www.justmommies.com/forums/f104-abortion-debate/2202273-adoption-vs-abortion.html)

FusionGirl December 30th, 2010 10:40 AM

Adoption vs Abortion
 
This is my first post here on the debate board so I hope I don't wind up with my tail between my legs running away crying, but it is something I wanted to discuss and get others opinions on and I didn't think my DDC was the appropriate place for it.

I was watching Teen Mom last night and it was a special re-visit episode on one of the teen moms who recently found out she was pregnant for a 2nd time. She was looking into all of her options and she knew that she really couldn't keep the baby. She said there was no way she could carry the baby for 9 months and give it up for adoption so she opted for an abortion. I really had a hard time understanding this. I didn't understand how she could be ok with ending her baby's life but not OK with giving the baby to a loving family who has probably wanted and tried for a child to love for a long time. After the procedure the office told her was 6 weeks along and not to think of it as a baby but as just a ball of cells she got rid of. All I could think was "yes a ball of cells with a beating heart".

Thoughts?

I am really wanting to debate the decision she made and not being pro-life or pro-choice. I have always been pro-choice but ever since becoming pregnant I do have a harder time with it knowing how early the heart starts beating, but I am glad that it is an option women have.

Mom2Froggy December 30th, 2010 11:21 AM

Re: Adoption vs Abortion
 
I personally think it is great she made the choice that felt right to her. Adoption is a wonderful thing, it really is. But so many children are waiting to be adopted already, and I feel like the whole argument of not choosing abortion when there is adoption is silly, because so many kids still need a home and are stuck in the system. It's not fair to them to have their rights as a living child be pushed aside because someone thinks abortion is wrong and how there is always adoption. Couples want little, healthy babies. That's a given, and that child would immediately be adopted. But it just bothers me that there is such a push to not have abortions when so many kids have been waiting YEARS to be adopted.

So that's why I think abortion is just fine. There are still kids in the system that need to be adopted, not all girls can even go through the adoption process. I'd MUCH rather a girl have an abortion than keep a baby she can't take care of because she can't give the baby up for adoption. That's not fair to the baby.

So in the end, if abortion works for the mother, great for her. If adoption is chosen, great for her too. If she keeps the baby, great! I just hope whatever decision she makes is best for her and the baby in the long run.

Chloe'sMommy December 30th, 2010 01:06 PM

Re: Adoption vs Abortion
 
She didn't see it as ending a life. It was a bundle of cells. She made the best choice for *her*. She can't make her choice based on other people's opinions or based on the choice that would help other people. It's about her, her body, her choice, and what would be best for her. Only she knows what she would have been able to handle. It's not your place, my place, or anyone's place to say that she could have handled an adoption and handled carrying a baby for 9 months only to go home empty handed. Honestly, I would have done the same thing. No way could I carry my baby for that long only to go home without her. I have no issue with abortion, none. It's a huge decision, and we make the one that we think is best for us.

FusionGirl December 30th, 2010 02:18 PM

Re: Adoption vs Abortion
 
You both make a really good point - it was the choice she needed to make for her and not for anyone else. Just because I would have gone the adoption route doesn't mean that everyone else could handle that. Puts it into more perspective for me -thanks!

And Mom2Froggy I didn't even think about how difficult it is for some children to be adopted. They make it look so easy on TV you forget that there are chilren other than babies waiting to be adopted.

angelsailor288 December 30th, 2010 02:28 PM

Re: Adoption vs Abortion
 
I watched that episode too, I really don't think she thought of it as just a ball of cells, thats just what they told her. She had a hard time with her decision you could see that, even though she felt it was the right one. I cried watching her, I can't imagine how she must have felt.

Abortion is something I could never choose for myself. I made that very clear to my boyfriend early in our relationship. I got pregnant on birth control and quite honestly its really bad timing but we are doing the best we can to make sure our baby will be provided for.

As for every other woman, I believe its their choice and their right. I think abortion is a very sad thing, I don't like to hear about such little lives being lost, however I know if a woman comes to that choice it was not an easy one and there is very good reason for it.

myblueyez December 30th, 2010 10:21 PM

Re: Adoption vs Abortion
 
I missed that episode and was actually wanting to watch it.
I think if she made the best decision for her and did what she feels was right for her, then so be it. I can totally relate to that experience, from what I've heard of that episode.
I myself couldn't go through 9 months of pregnancy and then give my baby away, it would be too hard for me emotionally. Whereas at 6 weeks it is easier to think of it as a ball of cells, there is no emotional attachment yet for me...
And yes I do see it as there are so many kids out there that already need to be adopted, why should another one be added to that list...
just my thoughts...

**Badfish** December 31st, 2010 10:19 AM

Re: Adoption vs Abortion
 
Who was it?

Babybear4 December 31st, 2010 11:55 AM

Re: Adoption vs Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by **Badfish** (Post 22574691)
Who was it?

Markai.

I was really sad to watch, actually. She struggled with her decision and there was never a moment where she *wanted* to have an abortion. Her and her boyfriend had spent their entire lives with parents who struggled to provide for them and they didn't want to do that to their daughter. He had just gotten a good job, they had moved out on their own and Markai was getting ready to head off to college. She didn't realize that if you don't get your Depo shot on the very day they tell you to, it will leave your system and the pregnancy was a total surprise to them. She agonized over her decision but ultimately decided that giving the child they had here the life that she deserved was most important, and so abortion was the best option for them and their family.

She also had a ton of support, from her BF, her mom, her sister and her friends. Nobody criticized her or made her feel badly for her choice. It didn't come easy for her and will probably be something she struggles with for along time to come.

As far as how I feel about it, I think she made the best decision for her and her family. She knew she couldn't put the baby up for adoption and she knew that she couldn't provide the life she wanted to provide to the child she had if she brought another into the world. It's not a choice I could make for myself, but I respect her decision and I hope she is able to find some peace in her decision.

GinaB December 31st, 2010 03:27 PM

Re: Adoption vs Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chloe'sMommy (Post 22567141)
She didn't see it as ending a life. It was a bundle of cells. She made the best choice for *her*. She can't make her choice based on other people's opinions or based on the choice that would help other people. It's about her, her body, her choice, and what would be best for her. Only she knows what she would have been able to handle. It's not your place, my place, or anyone's place to say that she could have handled an adoption and handled carrying a baby for 9 months only to go home empty handed. Honestly, I would have done the same thing. No way could I carry my baby for that long only to go home without her. I have no issue with abortion, none. It's a huge decision, and we make the one that we think is best for us.

I agree, it was her decision but I have to ask a question. How come it's okay to get rid of the baby via killing it but not okay to not kill it and give it away?

That seems to be a selfish decision to be honest for the mom only.

MindyRambo December 31st, 2010 05:02 PM

Re: Adoption vs Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FusionGirl (Post 22567917)
You both make a really good point - it was the choice she needed to make for her and not for anyone else. Just because I would have gone the adoption route doesn't mean that everyone else could handle that. Puts it into more perspective for me -thanks!
.

I honestly don't think anyone who hasn't walked in those shoes can say whether or not they would be able to place a child for adoption. You just have no idea how some people suffer from this decision for the rest of their lives.

Besides, adoption vs. abortion doesn't make sense to me. Abortion is a reproductive choice. Adoption, a parenting choice. Apples and oranges.

Babybear4 December 31st, 2010 05:11 PM

Re: Adoption vs Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindy1982 (Post 22577805)
I honestly don't think anyone who hasn't walked in those shoes can say whether or not they would be able to place a child for adoption. You just have no idea how some people suffer from this decision for the rest of their lives.

Besides, adoption vs. abortion doesn't make sense to me. Abortion is a reproductive choice. Adoption, a parenting choice. Apples and oranges.

Did you happen to watch the show?

1 of the girls that appeared on the show stated that she felt she was making a parenting choice when she chose to abort, because she chose what she felt was best for her AND the baby, so maybe for some, it's a reproductive choice but others feel it isn't.

Mom2Froggy December 31st, 2010 06:41 PM

Re: Adoption vs Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GinaB (Post 22577228)
I agree, it was her decision but I have to ask a question. How come it's okay to get rid of the baby via killing it but not okay to not kill it and give it away?

That seems to be a selfish decision to be honest for the mom only.

Is it selfish to you, only because you view it as killing a baby?

Not everyone sees it as "killing" a baby. In the end, you aren't killing anything. Murder is illegal. If abortion was murder, it wouldn't be allowed. That is why there is a limit on when a woman can abort, because of the viable age of the child. At 6 weeks that baby/cluster of cells/whatever you view it as, can not survive on its' own. Some girls just don't get attached to something that can not survive on its own, as others do. That's okay if you feel that it's a baby, and deserves to have the same rights as those that are already living. But legally, the rights of a cluster of cells/baby at 6 weeks does not hold the same right as an already living, viable being. In the end, that's all that matters. What is legal and what is not. I hope legality will always allow a woman the right over her body, and I hope that those that are faced with the choice to have a child or not, to keep a child or not, does the best decision for her, because in the end, that's what is going to matter more in the long run.

I just don't see it as selfish. It's not selfish. Not doing what is right for your already living children and yourself is what is selfish. Winning by emotions, and not the logic of the situation at hand, is selfish.

angelsailor288 December 31st, 2010 11:27 PM

Re: Adoption vs Abortion
 
I really dont think Markai viewed the baby as just a cluster, even though thats what the clinic told her. She flipped out when her boyfriend called it "that thing". She even said at one point she was already in love even though all it was doing was making her having morning sickness. However she did what she felt was best for that "child-to-be" and her child that was already here. It was no easy decision and I don't think her intentions were selfish.

Could I have made the same decision? Heck no. I was in love with my baby the day I found out I was pregnant. I'll do whatever it takes to make it work and give this baby the life it deserves. But I know its not the same for everyone.

Might I add.. I DO find it odd they did this segment. Obviously they dont follow these girls around 8 months after, yet the camera crew was there to record her abortion? What did she call mtv as soon as she was pregnant? That part seems odd, probably selfish (money probably comes into play), to me.

IAmMomMomIAm December 31st, 2010 11:57 PM

Re: Adoption vs Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindy1982 (Post 22577805)
I honestly don't think anyone who hasn't walked in those shoes can say whether or not they would be able to place a child for adoption. You just have no idea how some people suffer from this decision for the rest of their lives.

Besides, adoption vs. abortion doesn't make sense to me. Abortion is a reproductive choice. Adoption, a parenting choice. Apples and oranges.

I completely disagree with this entire post! hehe Being aware that the girl down the road suffered emotional trauma at giving up her baby for adoption has no bearing on how *I* would feel about doing it myself. I would choose adoption over abortion, if I needed to make that choice in my life.

As for the second paragraph.. I think it's a fair comparison. Either way the question is "what do I do with this cluster of cells/human life that is currently growing inside me?" The fact that the sometimes the decision made doesn't require immediate action doesn't change the initial decision.

I have not watched the show - I've watched a few episodes and to be honest I can't stand it - so I didn't see this episode and can't comment on her decision. I'm sure she did what was right for her, and possibly for the baby. As for the topic in general.. I can't wrap my head around the thought process that goes into the decision. Perhaps it's because I view abortion as ending a life, but the decision seems selfish to me: "If I can't have him (the baby), no one can."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mom2Froggy (Post 22578491)
Is it selfish to you, only because you view it as killing a baby?

Not everyone sees it as "killing" a baby. In the end, you aren't killing anything. Murder is illegal. If abortion was murder, it wouldn't be allowed.

I don't know how Gina feels specifically, but referring to abortion as "killing" and referring to it as "murder" are not the same thing. It is perfectly legal for a soldier to kill the enemy when he's on the battle field - it's not considered murder, but he definitely still killed someone. It's not illegal to kill a cow to eat it, but you definitely still killed something.

angelsailor288 January 1st, 2011 10:46 AM

Re: Adoption vs Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Keskes (Post 22579915)
I don't know how Gina feels specifically, but referring to abortion as "killing" and referring to it as "murder" are not the same thing. It is perfectly legal for a soldier to kill the enemy when he's on the battle field - it's not considered murder, but he definitely still killed someone. It's not illegal to kill a cow to eat it, but you definitely still killed something.


Exactly. Well said. To stop a beating heart is to kill, no matter what "IT" is.

SpankyMagoo January 1st, 2011 05:30 PM

Re: Adoption vs Abortion
 
Every abortion debate ever really just comes down to one question... when is a baby a baby and not just a bundle of cells?

Is it when the heart starts beating?
Is it when the brain starts working?
Is it when the baby is officially a fetus?

This is the essential debate. People have very different answers to this question. And that is why it will always be a debate, because the answer to that question is not black or white.

angelsailor288 January 1st, 2011 07:45 PM

Re: Adoption vs Abortion
 
Well, you can clearly see a baby on ultrasounds like 10-11 weeks... its no cluster of cells to any human eye.

IAmMomMomIAm January 2nd, 2011 10:11 AM

Re: Adoption vs Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by **Katie** (Post 22584616)
Every abortion debate ever really just comes down to one question... when is a baby a baby and not just a bundle of cells?

Is it when the heart starts beating?
Is it when the brain starts working?
Is it when the baby is officially a fetus?

This is the essential debate. People have very different answers to this question. And that is why it will always be a debate, because the answer to that question is not black or white.

I'm not sure what that point has to with THIS debate? We're not really debating about whether she terminated the existance of a baby vs a cluster of cells, but whether abortion or adoption is the better choice over all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelsailor288 (Post 22579872)
Might I add.. I DO find it odd they did this segment. Obviously they dont follow these girls around 8 months after, yet the camera crew was there to record her abortion? What did she call mtv as soon as she was pregnant? That part seems odd, probably selfish (money probably comes into play), to me.

I didn't watch it, but I wouldn't be surprised if she had the abortion, then called MTV, and they reenacted the whole situation.

MindyRambo January 4th, 2011 09:47 AM

Re: Adoption vs Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Keskes (Post 22579915)
I completely disagree with this entire post! hehe Being aware that the girl down the road suffered emotional trauma at giving up her baby for adoption has no bearing on how *I* would feel about doing it myself. I would choose adoption over abortion, if I needed to make that choice in my life.

As for the second paragraph.. I think it's a fair comparison. Either way the question is "what do I do with this cluster of cells/human life that is currently growing inside me?" The fact that the sometimes the decision made doesn't require immediate action doesn't change the initial decision.

I have not watched the show - I've watched a few episodes and to be honest I can't stand it - so I didn't see this episode and can't comment on her decision. I'm sure she did what was right for her, and possibly for the baby. As for the topic in general.. I can't wrap my head around the thought process that goes into the decision. Perhaps it's because I view abortion as ending a life, but the decision seems selfish to me: "If I can't have him (the baby), no one can."



Fair enough! LOL :) But I think I need to clarify. You say you would choose adoption over abortion, and that is fine. What I mean is if you didn't get an abortion, and decided to carry the baby and place the baby for adoption, you have NO IDEA (you in general) if you will be strong enough emotionally to actually let that baby go once it's born. You may choose to parent. Lots of lots of people who originally make adoption plans end up parenting. And that is their choice.

I don't think adoption vs. abortion is a fair comparison. When you are pregnant, initially you only have 2 reproductive choices. Carry the baby, or abort. That's it, those are the 2 initial choices. After that, you can make an adoption plan, which is a parenting choice. But carrying vs. abortion is comparable, adoption is not since this comes much later once you've already made the choice to carry. ONCE you've made the choice to carry, then it becomes parenting decisions. Parent or place.

As for the last bolded statement, I think that's oversimplified. When someone aborts, they aren't thinking ha ha, no one else can have him. They are thinking it's their choice (which is it) and they are probably thinking they would not be strong enough to hand the baby over, and hence they would end up parenting, which might be an impossible situation for them. That then leaves them in the same position as before. That's why I can understand what she did. Hope that makes sense.

IAmMomMomIAm January 4th, 2011 11:39 AM

Re: Adoption vs Abortion
 
I fully UNDERSTAND what she said. And I understand that some people don't think they could give the baby up, but also don't think they could raise it. My issue is that not being able to give the baby up in the end is a selfish decision, in my eyes, because I think it's the best decision for the child in the long run. I don't think any parent getting an abortion would be thinking "ha, no one can have my baby NOW!" but I do think the sentiment (the bolded quote) applies to those who choose to abort because they don't think they could "give their baby away." Since THEY cannot keep and raise the baby, then no one else will get the chance to either."

I still think that the ultimate decision being made is "what do I with this?" but I understand where we disagree. I see "Carry and keep" and "carry and give" as the same decision vs two separate ones. So I see three initial choices, rather than the two "carry it" or "end it."


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