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-   -   No Uterus, No Opinion (http://www.justmommies.com/forums/f104-abortion-debate/612532-no-uterus-no-opinion.html)

chloe82 June 16th, 2007 08:43 PM

I've seen this blinkie a few times, and am just wondering if people could elaborate on their thoughts for/against this position.
Is is just supposed to mean that basically men should have no opinion or say on the abortion issue since it doesn't directly affect them and their rights the way it does women?
That's how I understand it, correct me if i'm wrong, maybe I'm completely misunderstanding it.....
I guess if that's what it does insinuate, then my thoughts are that while I can understand the reasoning behind that line of thinking, I totally do not agree with it. Since when are people only allowed to have an opinion on a moral/political/religious issue when it only affects their particular sex/race/culture, etc? I don't know, it just rubs me the wrong way. I don't think we should expect men to look the other way if they're prolife just because they're men. I wouldn't promote people in general turning a blind eye to things going on in the world they strongly disagree with just becuase it doesn't affect them directly, and I think that nothing more than a person's sex/race/religion, etc, is a shallow reason to completely disregard someone's thoughts on an issue.
And anyways, aren't men pretty directly affected sometimes? Women have the right to go have an abortion without the father's consent. IMO the fetus/embryo is every bit as much the father's child as the mother's and I can completely understand, therefore, why some men may feel dismissed and insulted at the insinuation that abortion has nothing to do with them so they should just butt out.
Thoughts, opinions? Just looking for a good healthy debate here. ;)

Ms.Michelle June 16th, 2007 08:48 PM

I was a little offended by that blinkie as well. My DH is prochoice.. not like me, but he he understands that it's not his body to command with. Many other men in my life are pro-life that I would love to give that blinkie to, but at the end of the day it's offensive. There are many men out there that will fight the pro-choice agenda because like all basic human rights, they understand people don't have the right to control someone else's right to self health.

LaceyMommy2B June 17th, 2007 12:59 AM

that makes me really sad. i met a guy recently whose gf got preggo, he was thrilled.. she had an abortion after she had told them that they would keep the baby and acted excited about it as well. they ended up separating over it cause he was so upset about it. it was so sad. i absolutely believe that the father should have a say in the matter. im ProLife, but if its going to be legal anyways, i just think the father should also have a say in it!!

Mom2DavidandAaron June 17th, 2007 06:06 PM

I think it's ridiculous. Men have every right to an opinion in what they think is right or wrong, they have a sense of ethics and morals. Why should their opinions be limited to issues that don't involve women? I think that's really insulting.

Sharon

kadydid June 17th, 2007 07:53 PM

Quote:

that makes me really sad. i met a guy recently whose gf got preggo, he was thrilled.. she had an abortion after she had told them that they would keep the baby and acted excited about it as well. they ended up separating over it cause he was so upset about it. it was so sad. i absolutely believe that the father should have a say in the matter. im ProLife, but if its going to be legal anyways, i just think the father should also have a say in it!![/b]
So do you think a man should be have a say in it if she wants it and he wants her to have an abortion?


I think people can have all the opinions they like. I think the woman should take the mans opinion into consideration but ultimately it is her body.

If it means men should be able to vote on the subject, I guess I agree because I don't think anyone should get a vote. But I don't limit to men.

LaceyMommy2B June 17th, 2007 09:29 PM

i think that if one person is willing to keep the child and raise it alone, when the other doesnt want the child.. they should have that option. im for SAVING lives.. not taking them. if neither of the parents want the child, fine whatever.. as long as its legal, what can i say? but if one wants to save the child's life, i dont think the other should have the right to take it.. no matter which parent it is.

Mom2DavidandAaron June 17th, 2007 09:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:

that makes me really sad. i met a guy recently whose gf got preggo, he was thrilled.. she had an abortion after she had told them that they would keep the baby and acted excited about it as well. they ended up separating over it cause he was so upset about it. it was so sad. i absolutely believe that the father should have a say in the matter. im ProLife, but if its going to be legal anyways, i just think the father should also have a say in it!![/b]
So do you think a man should be have a say in it if she wants it and he wants her to have an abortion?


I think people can have all the opinions they like. I think the woman should take the mans opinion into consideration but ultimately it is her body.

If it means men should be able to vote on the subject, I guess I agree because I don't think anyone should get a vote. But I don't limit to men.
[/b]
I think it depends. If the father is present and involved I think he definitely should have a say in the matter. It's HIS baby too.
But I'm not sure if the OP meant this kind of individual cases or rather men havng an opinion on abortion as a subject.

Sharon

chloe82 June 17th, 2007 10:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

that makes me really sad. i met a guy recently whose gf got preggo, he was thrilled.. she had an abortion after she had told them that they would keep the baby and acted excited about it as well. they ended up separating over it cause he was so upset about it. it was so sad. i absolutely believe that the father should have a say in the matter. im ProLife, but if its going to be legal anyways, i just think the father should also have a say in it!![/b]
So do you think a man should be have a say in it if she wants it and he wants her to have an abortion?


I think people can have all the opinions they like. I think the woman should take the mans opinion into consideration but ultimately it is her body.

If it means men should be able to vote on the subject, I guess I agree because I don't think anyone should get a vote. But I don't limit to men.
[/b]
I think it depends. If the father is present and involved I think he definitely should have a say in the matter. It's HIS baby too.
But I'm not sure if the OP meant this kind of individual cases or rather men havng an opinion on abortion as a subject.

Sharon
[/b]
I meant more men having an opinion on abortion as a subject, but I find this digression interesting! It's a tricky area, to be honest, but I can't help but see it as unjust if a father wants to be a father, already IS a father, and the mother can take that away from him because his and her baby is still in her womb. It's kind of fuzzy to me as to where you could legally draw that line, but I just find it sad that a father has zero say in the situation.

Mommieof3 June 17th, 2007 10:05 PM

Quote:

I think it's ridiculous. Men have every right to an opinion in what they think is right or wrong, they have a sense of ethics and morals. Why should their opinions be limited to issues that don't involve women? I think that's really insulting.

Sharon[/b]
^Ditto.

glasscandie June 18th, 2007 11:52 AM

If you just meant whether or not they have the right to discuss abortion, of course they should be able to have an opinion! If not, then I guess anyone who eats meat can't have an opinion about hunting; anyone who's not a politician or highly educated on world matters shouldn't vote, etc.

When it comes down to the sticking point of abortion or not - in an ideal world I'd love to see the father just as involved in the process as the woman.

I think in a situation where the father CAN and WILL be involved, his feelings should be considered. Everyone was yelling at Smashley in the Father's Day post in the Heated section, because she said a mother was more important, or at least had more work. Isn't it a double standard to say that his opinion shouldn't be valid before the baby's born or aborted, just because he's not carrying the baby in his body; but then to say he should be held to equal reverence after the baby's born? In most cases, the father's the one who supports the mom if she's on bedrest, if she chooses not to work when she's pregnant, etc. I think it's unfair to say he's only equal in one case and not the other; don't pregnant women celebrate Mother's Day, too?

In a situation where the father WILL NOT be present, obviously the mother's opinion and wants takes precedence.

mrshowdy June 18th, 2007 12:03 PM

I also find a double standard that says I have to have my husband permission to get a tubal, but not to get an abortion.

Personally, I am pro life and I feel that it is just as much the fathers decision as the mothers

kadydid June 18th, 2007 12:56 PM

Quote:

I also find a double standard that says I have to have my husband permission to get a tubal, but not to get an abortion.

Personally, I am pro life and I feel that it is just as much the fathers decision as the mothers[/b]
We have to have our husbands permission to get our tubes tied? :blink: :blink: :blink: I will agree with you that there is a pretty big double standard there.

Mom2DavidandAaron June 18th, 2007 02:53 PM

Quote:

Isn't it a double standard to say that his opinion shouldn't be valid before the baby's born or aborted, just because he's not carrying the baby in his body; but then to say he should be held to equal reverence after the baby's born?[/b]
ITA.
I find it very hypocritical that women demand paternity tests to get child support, fight to the death to have the fathers involved (at least economically) with the children, but when it comes to choosing abortion they dismiss them as non-existent.


Quote:

We have to have our husbands permission to get our tubes tied? :blink: :blink: :blink: I will agree with you that there is a pretty big double standard there.[/b]
I don't know if there's a double standard or not. Does it mean that legally you need your husband's permission? Does he need your permission to get a vasectomy?
I'd never dream of getting a tubal ligation without taking my husband's opinion into account, but I've never heard that he has to legally agree to that. I had the idea that, as an adult, I can have any medical procedure I want without the need of someone esle's permission unless I'm unfit to make such a decision.

Sharon

Mommieof3 June 18th, 2007 05:38 PM

Quote:

I also find a double standard that says I have to have my husband permission to get a tubal, but not to get an abortion.

Personally, I am pro life and I feel that it is just as much the fathers decision as the mothers[/b]
Whoa....say that again? Do you legally need his permission? Ugh....that would make me furious.

lilac_city_mommy June 18th, 2007 06:26 PM

Okay, I have this blinkie, but it's not a political statement in any way. I personally think that since the child is as much the man's as it is the woman's, he has every right to be involved in all decisions.

My blinkie actually refers to a quote from the TV show Friends. In the episode Rachel is pregnant and having Braxton Hicks contractions. She goes to the hospital because the pain freaks her out, and she keeps getting told that these contractions are mild and that most women don't even notice them. In her frustration at men pushing aside her experience, she states "Okay, no uterus, no opinion!" I don't know what the person who made the blinkie had in mind, but since this is a favorite TV show of mine I snagged it because of the Friends reference.

Ms.Michelle June 18th, 2007 09:01 PM

Quote:

I find it very hypocritical that women demand paternity tests to get child support, fight to the death to have the fathers involved (at least economically) with the children, but when it comes to choosing abortion they dismiss them as non-existent.[/b]
:devil: Me too, but that's another topic!

Quote:

Quote:

We have to have our husbands permission to get our tubes tied? :blink: :blink: :blink: I will agree with you that there is a pretty big double standard there.[/b]
I don't know if there's a double standard or not. Does it mean that legally you need your husband's permission? Does he need your permission to get a vasectomy?
I'd never dream of getting a tubal ligation without taking my husband's opinion into account, but I've never heard that he has to legally agree to that. I had the idea that, as an adult, I can have any medical procedure I want without the need of someone esle's permission unless I'm unfit to make such a decision.
Sharon
[/b]
Come on Sharon, it's a huge double standard that a doctor won't do permanant sterilization without consent of someone else. That is the essence of my body, my choice.

Quote:

My blinkie actually refers to a quote from the TV show Friends. In the episode Rachel is pregnant and having Braxton Hicks contractions. She goes to the hospital because the pain freaks her out, and she keeps getting told that these contractions are mild and that most women don't even notice them. In her frustration at men pushing aside her experience, she states "Okay, no uterus, no opinion!" I don't know what the person who made the blinkie had in mind, but since this is a favorite TV show of mine I snagged it because of the Friends reference.[/b]
Well, I kinda understand it now. I once had a blinkie about being a heterosexual that supports homosexual rights.. When I first read your blinkie, because I always debate abortion, I was sensitive to it in that light.

lilac_city_mommy June 19th, 2007 11:16 AM

Quote:

Well, I kinda understand it now. I once had a blinkie about being a heterosexual that supports homosexual rights.. When I first read your blinkie, because I always debate abortion, I was sensitive to it in that light.[/b]
Since I very rarely debate abortion and am quite new to the debate boards entirely, it never crossed my mind that it might come across as a political sentiment! I'm going in search of a Friends blinkie that won't cause offense to anyone, that was absolutely unintended. But I suppose if it stirs up a good debate, it might have been worth it :lol:

Ms.Michelle June 19th, 2007 01:59 PM

A good debate is always worth it!

pumpkinandpudding June 21st, 2007 06:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I also find a double standard that says I have to have my husband permission to get a tubal, but not to get an abortion.

Personally, I am pro life and I feel that it is just as much the fathers decision as the mothers[/b]
Whoa....say that again? Do you legally need his permission? Ugh....that would make me furious.
[/b]

In some states, and in some instances, spousal consent before performing legal sterilization is required. This doesn't completely limit a woman from pursuing voluntary sterilization if she chooses. (This one has been debated by the courts a lot.) And, in most states that have required spousal consent to sterilization the guidelines have been lessened somewhat.

Generally speaking, the patient's consent alone is sufficient authorization for any legal operation. Public hospitals are not permitted to enforce any policies requiring spousal consent for sterilization. It has been found in the courts to be an unconstitutional violation of the right of privacy. (Sims v. University of Ark. Med. Ctr.) Federal appellate courts ruled that a governmental hospital couldn't impose greater restrictions on the sterilization procedure (more so than other procedures) because of the medically indistinguishable risk to the patient. Federal courts have ruled that state laws that require spousal consent are unconstitutional. (Coe v. Bolton) This does not free federally funded clinics of their obligation to follow all state requirements regarding consent. Private medical institutions are free to enforce any policies requiring consent.

EmilysMommy04 July 20th, 2007 11:11 AM

Personally I think the father should have some say. Now if the father deosnt want the baby he should sign over parental rights. If the father does want the baby and the mother suddenly doesnt then I think she should give birth and sign over parental rights. Alot of people may say its her body her choice well its his child to. Im sure if she were to have kept it she would have wanted child support. JMO its a 2 way street not a one way. Im pro Life so I dont believe in taking a babies life except for medical reasonings.


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