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Abortion and the death penalty


Abortion Debate

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  #1  
May 6th, 2009, 08:49 PM
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Pro-choice and against the death penalty versus pro-life and for the death penalty
Is either hypocritical in your opinion?
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  #2  
May 6th, 2009, 10:49 PM
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I don't agree with the hypocrisy argument in either case. The issues are worlds apart. Pro-lifers like to call people who are pro-choice "pro-abortion," and that's not the case at all. No one is "pro-abortion." The heart of Roe v. Wade was, do women have a right to privacy when making decisions about their bodies? The Supreme Court decided, according to the fourteenth amendment, they do. Limitations on abortions were also set in place with Roe v. Wade, mainly that the state has a legitimate interest in protecting the life of the mother or the potential for life of the fetus, which is why most states outlaw late-term abortions.

My own personal views on abortion have nothing to do with what other women decide. It is not my place, nor is it the government's place, to make decisions in their gynecological health. I feel like if I have the right to decide not to have an abortion, then others should be afforded that same right, whether or not it aligns with my personal beliefs.

When forced to take a stance on the death penalty, I am against it. All of my reasons for this are strictly logical rather than emotional. I don't believe in an eye for an eye. If I were faced with life in prison without parole, I would prefer to just be put out of my misery, and I believe a painless execution is an easy way out for most felony offenders. And finally, I feel like it sends a message to families of homicide victims in cases where the death penalty wasn't sought that their loved one wasn't as important as a victim in a capital punishment case. That being said, if I took a job in a DA's office, I wouldn't have an issue working on a capital punishment case. It's just not something I feel that strongly about.

The key difference for me between the two issues is one deals with the right to privacy and the other deals with cruel and unusual punishment. I understand that some see abortion as cruel and unusual, and I'm not disputing that. Like it or not, a woman has the right to decide whether or not to use her body to continue a pregnancy. It is just simply not up to the government, as opposed to capital punishment, which has everything to do with federal law from the time of the offense, through the court proceedings and finally up to the sentencing.
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  #3  
May 7th, 2009, 04:03 PM
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Ooooh, I am so coming back to this later, but I have to make dinner! Good topic.
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  #4  
May 7th, 2009, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess12_9 View Post
I don't agree with the hypocrisy argument in either case. The issues are worlds apart. Pro-lifers like to call people who are pro-choice "pro-abortion," and that's not the case at all. No one is "pro-abortion." The heart of Roe v. Wade was, do women have a right to privacy when making decisions about their bodies? The Supreme Court decided, according to the fourteenth amendment, they do. Limitations on abortions were also set in place with Roe v. Wade, mainly that the state has a legitimate interest in protecting the life of the mother or the potential for life of the fetus, which is why most states outlaw late-term abortions.

My own personal views on abortion have nothing to do with what other women decide. It is not my place, nor is it the government's place, to make decisions in their gynecological health. I feel like if I have the right to decide not to have an abortion, then others should be afforded that same right, whether or not it aligns with my personal beliefs.

When forced to take a stance on the death penalty, I am against it. All of my reasons for this are strictly logical rather than emotional. I don't believe in an eye for an eye. If I were faced with life in prison without parole, I would prefer to just be put out of my misery, and I believe a painless execution is an easy way out for most felony offenders. And finally, I feel like it sends a message to families of homicide victims in cases where the death penalty wasn't sought that their loved one wasn't as important as a victim in a capital punishment case. That being said, if I took a job in a DA's office, I wouldn't have an issue working on a capital punishment case. It's just not something I feel that strongly about.

The key difference for me between the two issues is one deals with the right to privacy and the other deals with cruel and unusual punishment. I understand that some see abortion as cruel and unusual, and I'm not disputing that. Like it or not, a woman has the right to decide whether or not to use her body to continue a pregnancy. It is just simply not up to the government, as opposed to capital punishment, which has everything to do with federal law from the time of the offense, through the court proceedings and finally up to the sentencing.
Very well written post! I agree. Although, I do see "pro-life" (I use the term "pro-life" in quotes because I don't actually see it as being pro-life, but rather anti-choice) and pro-death penalty as a bit hypocritical. The reasons cited for it not being hypocritical are always that fetuses are "innocent" and people who commit horrible crimes are not.

Well, some people on death row are innocent. Our system is not perfect. Also, many people also cite religion when they talk about being "pro-life". What I don't understand is when they use the "innocence" argument as well as the religious one, because- and correct me if I'm wrong or am looking at it in a weird way, I'm NO expert on religion- but I thought everyone was born a sinner? Maybe that is only certain sects of Christianity?? So I have never understood that one.

Abortion is a very personal decision. I do not think that the gov't has a right to say that I absolutely cannot have an abortion under any circumstances. Sure, there are people who have had abortions as birth control, but to me, that is wrong, and I don't think the majority do this. And there are SO many circumstances- ones that people never consider- that go into this. Sometimes it means the health of the mother, or the health of the other fetuses, or sometimes it has to do with being the humane thing to do. This is not a black and white issue.

For the death penalty, I am against it. I also don't understand how religious people are often for the death penalty. Again, I may be wrong, but I thought it was only God's place to make life and death decisions about people?? I am not for it because I just think it is wrong for a jury to decide if someone dies. Plus, I also think that being kept alive in prison is way more of a punishment.
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  #5  
May 7th, 2009, 09:15 PM
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I agree, I hate when people think "pro-choice" means "pro-abortion." I am never pro-abortion. If a woman is raped and wants an abortion, its not that I am pro-abortion, I am pro-her getting to make a choice resulting from a violent act that she did not have a choice in. If a woman could die from the pregnancy, I am pro-life, as in for her getting to live if that is what she wants. She is a life, too! When it comes to women who have abortions as birth control or because they simply do not want the baby, no I don't like that they turn to abortions, but I do not feel it is the government who should tell them so.

When I say I am pro-choice, it means just that. I am pro-women getting to choose. I wouldn't choose to abort, unless it was humane for my baby or to save my life, but it should be my choice to make.

I am anti-death penalty. There are times when I hear of a crime so heinous I hope the perpetrator dies, but it is out of human anger and a desire for vengeance. To me, those emotions should not rule whether a person lives or dies. Consequences should be in place for proper punishment, determent, and rehabilitation if possible. Death to me does not fit in any of those categories. Some may argue, "what if it was your family member who was killed?" Of course I may feel that person should be punished in the most horrible, awful way. It would be out of despair-driven anger and vengeance, which as I said, should not be a basis for law. We think awful things when we are hurt and angry. We should not let those emotions alone rule our actions or our laws.
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  #6  
May 8th, 2009, 08:50 AM
irishxrose
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While I agree with the previous posters on the pro-choice issue and I am pro-choice, I support the death penalty in certain circumstances.

But no, I do not believe that being pro life and pro death penalty, or pro choice and anti death penalty are hypocritical. They are completely different issues and it's a bit like comparing apples and oranges. It's an irrelevant argument that have nothing to do with each other, IMO.
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  #7  
May 8th, 2009, 06:28 PM
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Prochoice/anti death penalty - not hypocritical for one giant reason: You're not killing a sentient being in the former ::shrug::

ETA, like PPs have said - prochoice doesn't equal pro abortion.
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  #8  
May 8th, 2009, 07:45 PM
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Because I am a dummy, for the longest time I have not known this: when someone writes "ETA" what does it stand for?
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  #10  
May 8th, 2009, 08:43 PM
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Thanks! I couldn't figure it out.

ETA- and now I can start using it.
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  #12  
May 8th, 2009, 09:10 PM
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That's how I see it too, if the motto is a life is a life, then it should be everyone's life, I think.
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  #13  
May 12th, 2009, 05:55 PM
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Oops, I kind of forgot all about this. But I agree with the previous 2 posts only because those people use that line as the entire basis of their argument. Not saying it's a valid argument, only that it's hypocritical. But overall I think the 2 issues are completely different and can't be compared.
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  #14  
May 13th, 2009, 09:27 AM
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My view is punish the guilty not the innocent. Babies have done NOTHING wrong, child murders obviously have... they earned their death sentence. What's an unborn child done? Sucked nutrients from it's mother? Hardly a crime punishable by death!
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  #16  
May 14th, 2009, 10:35 PM
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It is very hypocritical to use the death penalty in any case. I think that if a person gets an abortion, they will pay for that in other ways. There is no reason to take a life, ESPECIALLY, when those pro-lifers out there are preaching about KEEPING life. It seems a little strange that those very people say : Let's kill, when they are advocating against it. You know? I do not believe in abortion, but I do not believe in the death penalty. Even for hard-core criminals, I feel the death penalty is an easy way out. Why should you die, when you could rot in jail forever and have to be miserable for your life. I don't want a rapist put to death!? I would rather him be someones b!&@ in jail, you know? It seems like death isn't justice, it's a way out. Even the criminals who don't want to die, would rather die than be tortured for the rest of their earthly lives. But for abortion? I don't know if you can really instill the death penalty on someone for taking something out of her own body. You do that, and you 'll start over with illegal, secret and underground abortions again. Who will deal with that? The death penalty being imposed on those who have abortions would do more harm than good.

PS Wanted to add:

I do NOT believe MY tax dollars, should go into funding abortions. Sorry. Pay for it yourself, or close your legs and keep from getting pregnant. (hey, I am blunt!) The ONLY exception? Rape.
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  #17  
May 15th, 2009, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by fergyferg View Post
I'll bite. Mothers who would die if they continue the pregnancy. The fetus is killing the mother then, no? Then isn't it self defense?

Also, what are child murders? Do you mean child murderers? If so, are you referring to those that have aborted?
self defense? when is it the actual baby killing the mother? Even in the case of ectopic pregnancy it is the fallopian tube that is the risk - not the baby. So, do you think it should be legal for a mother to kill her baby if a person points a gun at her and says "kill your baby or I will kill you" - by your reasoning that seems to be self defense as well? Interesting way to try and use a self defense argument.
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  #18  
May 15th, 2009, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by AMDG View Post
self defense? when is it the actual baby killing the mother? Even in the case of ectopic pregnancy it is the fallopian tube that is the risk - not the baby. So, do you think it should be legal for a mother to kill her baby if a person points a gun at her and says "kill your baby or I will kill you" - by your reasoning that seems to be self defense as well? Interesting way to try and use a self defense argument.
What exactly are you referring to here? An abortion? Infanticide? Just curious.
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  #19  
May 15th, 2009, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDG View Post
self defense? when is it the actual baby killing the mother? Even in the case of ectopic pregnancy it is the fallopian tube that is the risk - not the baby. So, do you think it should be legal for a mother to kill her baby if a person points a gun at her and says "kill your baby or I will kill you" - by your reasoning that seems to be self defense as well? Interesting way to try and use a self defense argument.
But what is threatening that fallopian tube? The BABY. The fallopian tube would have been fine had there been no baby there.

If I stabbed someone with a knife and they died from a severed artery, I can't argue that is was that artery's fault they died. It would be my fault.

Any time you take action to save your own life it is self-defense/self-preservation. Whether ending a pregnancy, blocking a blow to the head, or using medications to treat a life-threatening disease, its self-preservation.
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