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Abortion Debate

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  #1  
May 19th, 2009, 08:20 PM
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So I wasn't sure where to put this but I figured this would be the best bet because I feel no matter where I post it, it will become a debate.

If you were raped would you have an abortion and why?

This is being brought up because I feel really bad for a friend of mine right now. She was recently raped and found out she is pregnant with the rapists child. She has decided to keep this baby even though her friends and family are pushing her to abort. She called me a little while ago in tears. I understand her need to keep this baby, it is her child no matter how it happened, her blood and she isn't willing to punish an innocent baby for what that cruel *%#&% did.

So opinions?
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  #2  
May 19th, 2009, 08:47 PM
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Okay, after reading what Melissa posted, my answer seemed incredibly insensitive. I'll just stick with, I don't think so, but I'm not really in any position to answer because I've never been in that situation.
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  #3  
May 19th, 2009, 09:05 PM
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I have thought so much about this and I don't know how I could go through with a pregnancy that resulted from rape? Yes it would be my child and that is the part that makes me go back and forth...but I am not some "thing" to be fertilized, I am a human and I wouldn't have chosen for this to happen. It would have been completely beyond my control.

I would really have to weigh what it might do to my marriage too. There are so many factors and it is so hard to think of what I would do because I haven't experienced anything so horrific.

Like Jess, I wouldn't judge anyone's decision in that case. It is very complicated.
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  #4  
May 19th, 2009, 09:37 PM
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I'm going to ditto StaceyC's posts in the thread titled "would you abort if you were raped?"
Quote:
I think this is a question that, unless actually faced with the decision, it is not possible to answer. First of all, it is impossible to imagine or assume the full scope of how such an event would impact you, physically or emotionally. Second of all, rape is not a cookie cutter crime, it is different for every single victim, from the degree and details of the attack to the recovery (and reporting if applicable) process and the victim's support system.
It is easy to mount the saddle on one's high horse and sanctimoniously proclaim "NO, NEVER!", but I consider it unrealistic, as well as insensitive. To answer the question, without the experience to draw from, you are, perhaps without realizing it, denigrating the victims of rape because the implication that you would have handled it correctly translates to your belief that they weren't strong enough, compounding the guilt and shame that victims already carry with them for a lifetime.
Even as someone who has experienced rape, I could never answer the question for anyone else. I know, had my experience resulted in pregnancy, I would have had an abortion. I cannot, however, speculate on a potential future decision if, God forbid, I were ever raped again because, again, I cannot and would not attempt to imagine every hypothetical detail, with every varying degree of violence and humiliation involved or the impact of the psychological trauma and/or physical injury that may result.
My point is, even if you were reading the graphic details of a violent rape, empathy is possible but the true nature of the experience is unimaginable and it is, therefore, impossible to postulate on the methods and measures that would necessitate your physical and psychological survival.
Read more: http://www.justmommies.com/forums/f1...xzz0G0wHFTS7&B (would you abort if you were raped?)
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  #5  
May 19th, 2009, 10:55 PM
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I don't know what I would do for myself, but I know what I would do for anyone else in this situation: hold her hand, support her, and keep my opinions to my self.
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  #6  
May 19th, 2009, 11:53 PM
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Thanks for everyones opinions, mel, I looked for a similar debate before I started this and could not find one, thank you for the link.
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  #7  
May 20th, 2009, 06:28 AM
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No problem- I was just using that post as my opinion on it so I didn't have to retype it all. I agree with everything StaceyC said almost the entire debate. It wasn't meant to be snarky- I promise.
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  #8  
May 20th, 2009, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melkissa2004 View Post
I'm going to ditto StaceyC's posts in the thread titled "would you abort if you were raped?"


Read more: http://www.justmommies.com/forums/f1...xzz0G0wHFTS7&B (would you abort if you were raped?)

I strongly disagree and let me explain why. Many people believe that life begins at conception and that the life growing within them has just as much value and worth as any other human being walking the earth. For me, the question is NO DIFFERENT than if someone were to ask - would you ever kill your children. I have a 20 month old and a 4 month old. I can say that there is NO circumstances in which I would kill either of my children. So, to say that I can't say with certainty that would not abort by baby if I were raped is just not true. It is true that I can't understand the pain or heartache I would go through - I can't say if I would bond with the baby or what kind of stress it would put on my marriage etc etc but I KNOW that abortion would not even cross my mind. I think your post, or the one you quote at least, discounts the fact that some truly do believe that the fetus is equal to any life.
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  #9  
May 20th, 2009, 08:45 AM
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Beliefs can be wrong. Isn't it important to to determine which beliefs are right and which are wrong? There is a difference between the words "child" and "zygote" for a reason. They are two different categories of things.

Can someone give the definition of "child", and the associated attributes that a child has, and then apply that to a zygote and see if a zygote qualifies as being a "child"? I am not saying a zygote has no value, but to say a zygote is a child, person, or human being is stretching the meaning of the word. A person is certainly more than a clump of identical cells, or a unique mix of DNA, or a thing which is merely alive.

I would support any woman that was raped and wanted to get an abortion early in the pregnancy. I would not see it as "killing a child", which is an emotional appeal based on false beliefs. Early in the pregnancy it is a potential child, but not yet a child.
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  #10  
May 20th, 2009, 09:08 AM
AMDG's Avatar Margaret
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smt View Post
Beliefs can be wrong. Isn't it important to to determine which beliefs are right and which are wrong? There is a difference between the words "child" and "zygote" for a reason. They are two different categories of things.

Can someone give the definition of "child", and the associated attributes that a child has, and then apply that to a zygote and see if a zygote qualifies as being a "child"? I am not saying a zygote has no value, but to say a zygote is a child, person, or human being is stretching the meaning of the word. A person is certainly more than a clump of identical cells, or a unique mix of DNA, or a thing which is merely alive.

I would support any woman that was raped and wanted to get an abortion early in the pregnancy. I would not see it as "killing a child", which is an emotional appeal based on false beliefs. Early in the pregnancy it is a potential child, but not yet a child.
I don't know if you were responding to me or just making a point but as far as my post goes I don't think it really matters. I was just pointing out that some people can say without any doubt they would not abort the unborn and to say "you can't know unless you were in that situation" is untrue and not taking into account the fact that to some, all human life holds equal value.
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  #11  
May 20th, 2009, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDG View Post
I don't know if you were responding to me or just making a point but as far as my post goes I don't think it really matters. I was just pointing out that some people can say without any doubt they would not abort the unborn and to say "you can't know unless you were in that situation" is untrue and not taking into account the fact that to some, all human life holds equal value.
I think Katey hit the nail on the head when she said the most important thing is to be supportive if a friend is ever in this situation, which is where the original post was leading. I have no problem with people believing they would react definitely one way or the other, but to try to convince a woman who has been raped she must abort or must not abort is wrong. Unconditional support is warranted in either case.
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  #12  
May 20th, 2009, 09:30 AM
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I stand by my original post. I think it is unrealistic to assume you would not even consider abortion if you were heinously raped. We will have to agree to disagree.

I also agree with Katey- if I had a friend who unfortunately experienced such an event I would just be there for her through and through and support her decision regardless of what she decides.
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  #13  
May 20th, 2009, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDG View Post
I don't know if you were responding to me or just making a point but as far as my post goes I don't think it really matters. I was just pointing out that some people can say without any doubt they would not abort the unborn and to say "you can't know unless you were in that situation" is untrue and not taking into account the fact that to some, all human life holds equal value.
I was making a general comment.

I don't think anyone believes "all human life holds equal value". Of course, that may depend on how one defines "human life". To be a "human" means something specific. To be something that is "a life/alive in a human being" is something else. Every time you sneeze you kill billions of live things that were inside of you.
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  #14  
May 20th, 2009, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess12_9 View Post
I think Katey hit the nail on the head when she said the most important thing is to be supportive if a friend is ever in this situation, which is where the original post was leading. I have no problem with people believing they would react definitely one way or the other, but to try to convince a woman who has been raped she must abort or must not abort is wrong. Unconditional support is warranted in either case.
I think the most important thing is to be supportive of ethical decisions and to discourage unethical decisions. Unconditional support is not warranted, IMO, in either case. Consider the absurdity of carrying a child from rape to the 9th month and then asking for an elective abortion. I would not support that in any case. At some point there IS a child that gains some rights. At some point a woman makes a decision to carry a child to term and that has certain obligations that come along with the decision.
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  #15  
May 20th, 2009, 10:19 AM
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I admire her for not wanting to punish the baby for the crime of the rapist. To be honest, I can't answer this question truthfully since it didn't happen to me. That would be one for her own personal decision
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  #16  
May 20th, 2009, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smt View Post
I think the most important thing is to be supportive of ethical decisions and to discourage unethical decisions. Unconditional support is not warranted, IMO, in either case. Consider the absurdity of carrying a child from rape to the 9th month and then asking for an elective abortion. I would not support that in any case. At some point there IS a child that gains some rights. At some point a woman makes a decision to carry a child to term and that has certain obligations that come along with the decision.
That would be absurd because it's not a possible scenario. States don't allow elective abortions after the fetus becomes viable. I stand by my statement. If a friend is impregnated during a rape, the only acceptable response is quiet support.
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  #17  
May 20th, 2009, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovadue View Post
I admire her for not wanting to punish the baby for the crime of the rapist. To be honest, I can't answer this question truthfully since it didn't happen to me. That would be one for her own personal decision
I don't think a baby should ever be "punished" for anything. I baby is not a responsible party for its actions.

It is disengenous to apply the word "punish" to a category of things which are incapable of being punished. A cell or a small group of cells cannot be punished because they are incapable of feeling pain or conceptualizing "suffering".

I'm not even sure you could properly apply the word "punish" to an entity which has done no wrong. The rapist could be punished, a baby resulting from a rape could not be "punished" for the rape, although it could eventually be unjustly harmed as a result of the rape, but that is not a punishment. IMO, this is just another emotional appeal in an attempt to try and sway an argument to one side.
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  #18  
May 20th, 2009, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess12_9 View Post
That would be absurd because it's not a possible scenario. States don't allow elective abortions after the fetus becomes viable. I stand by my statement. If a friend is impregnated during a rape, the only acceptable response is quiet support.
Does New Jersey have a prohibition against elective abortions in the ninth month?
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  #20  
May 20th, 2009, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smt View Post
Does New Jersey have a prohibition against elective abortions in the ninth month?
Do you have information I don't? In 2007 the Supreme Court upheld a ban on late-term abortions, so under federal law, every state has a prohibition against elective abortions in the ninth month.
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