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Definition of a baby?


Abortion Debate

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  #1  
May 26th, 2009, 08:13 AM
smt smt is offline
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I was wondering if a few pro-lifers could give the definition of a baby and list the primary attributes so when we talk about "killing a baby" we have some common reference to work from. The definition should include things that would help separate the idea of a human baby from that of other mammal babies.
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  #2  
May 26th, 2009, 08:05 PM
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No takers, huh?
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  #3  
May 26th, 2009, 08:35 PM
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Of course not. Why dig your grave deeper? I kid, I kid!
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  #4  
May 27th, 2009, 06:25 AM
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Good thought provoking question.
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  #6  
May 27th, 2009, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddyx2 View Post

As far as the justification of killing animals but not aborting....I can't say. Maybe because animals can't talk...

I know you said you're not a prolifer but I have to comment.. I just have to.

A fetus can't talk either
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  #8  
May 27th, 2009, 08:32 PM
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Hi. I would like to jump in here. I just found out I am pregnant. To me, my baby is a baby. I also know that the heart beat can be seen on u/s as early as a little over 5 weeks, which is less than 2 months gestational age. Could any one of you take your baby's life if you saw the hb on u/s? If so, why?
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  #9  
May 27th, 2009, 08:39 PM
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I could if my life was in direct danger, or if the baby had a severe medical condition, like anencephaly.
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  #10  
May 28th, 2009, 04:43 AM
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Ok....for those who are so adamant that the correct word is "fetus" and that its "not a person". When you were pregnant or when your friends or relatives were pregnant....did you refer to what was in your/their uterus as a "fetus" and talk about your/their "non person"? If you used the word baby....as in "I felt the baby move"...isn't it hypocritical to use the word "baby" when you try so hard to convince others that before birth, its not a baby?

Ftr, I'm pro choice.
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  #13  
May 28th, 2009, 05:59 AM
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I don't think anyone is saying that a fetus can't be a baby. In the early stages of pregnancy we use the word "baby" to refer to something which is developing into a human being, but we don't really think about what it means at the moment. For sure, at some point a human baby truly does exist in there because it has the attributes of something that would define a human being.

I don't think having a heartbeat defines a "baby" because a developing kitten has a heartbeat, too. It only identifies a stage in the development, but not the end result.
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  #14  
May 28th, 2009, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smt View Post
I don't think anyone is saying that a fetus can't be a baby. In the early stages of pregnancy we use the word "baby" to refer to something which is developing into a human being, but we don't really think about what it means at the moment. For sure, at some point a human baby truly does exist in there because it has the attributes of something that would define a human being.

I don't think having a heartbeat defines a "baby" because a developing kitten has a heartbeat, too. It only identifies a stage in the development, but not the end result.
To the bolded...thats your opinion and I think thats what this debate always comes down to....opinion. My opinion is that once I had that positive pg. test, I was pg. with a baby and we referred to it as such. So, thats why I don't use the term "fetus" and I don't try to convince others that a baby should really be called one. If I didn't look at my pregnancies in that manner, it would be hypocritical for me to think of anyone elses that way.
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  #15  
May 28th, 2009, 08:04 AM
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Tammy, I see your point, and it's a good one. When I was pregnant, I did refer to my son as "the baby" but I also realized from a medical standpoint, he was a fetus up until birth. My choosing to use the word "baby" was kind of like if I'm making bread and my husband asks me what I'm doing. I wouldn't say I'm making "dough" although that would be more accurate depending on what stage I'm at.

The problem I have with these abortion debates is being called a "child killer" because I'm pro-choice. It doesn't seem to matter how many times I explain that I, personally, don't agree with abortion; I just don't want to remove that option for other women and/or fetuses who might truly need it. People use emotionally charged words like "kill" "baby" and "child" and as a parent, those words are incredibly hurtful. It would be much easier to debate the issue without having someone tell me I support a woman's right to kill her baby. To me, killing a baby is infanticide, which is obviously very different that an aborting a six-week embryo.
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  #16  
May 28th, 2009, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddyx2 View Post
It's a question of wording. If I say I am pro-choice and someone says "You are a baby killer", it gives the implication that I am killing children up to a year old. Using the term "fetus" is less inflamatory and is an attempt negate the emotional arguments made by pro-life individuals.

Call it what you will, but a fetus/baby in utero is perceived differently than a baby postpartum for the pro-choice crowd.
In general, you may be right but there are those of us who are part of the pro-choice crowd who do not view the baby as a non person/fetus.
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  #17  
May 28th, 2009, 10:09 AM
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This is why I also asked for the primary attributes that define a "baby". Anyone can call something a baby but we know that a "baby" is much more than a fertilized egg with a unique combination of DNA.

The difference is important because there is a difference between killing a human baby and killing something that is yet to become a human baby.
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  #18  
May 28th, 2009, 10:46 AM
Tammyjh's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smt View Post
This is why I also asked for the primary attributes that define a "baby". Anyone can call something a baby but we know that a "baby" is much more than a fertilized egg with a unique combination of DNA.

The difference is important because there is a difference between killing a human baby and killing something that is yet to become a human baby.
The problem is that you are trying to apply your perspective to someone elses. If somone else has the opinion that its murder, I don't know how you will change that....because its their opinion. Your statement seems to imply that everyone should agree with you that in the earliest stages of development, its not a human baby. I work with the assumption that "I" feel that it is a baby in its earliest stages of development. Its not up to me to tell you that you should agree with me....and its ok with me if you don't.
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  #19  
May 28th, 2009, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammyjh View Post
The problem is that you are trying to apply your perspective to someone elses. If somone else has the opinion that its murder, I don't know how you will change that....because its their opinion.
"Murder" is a legal term so that is easy. The law matters, not opinions. Of course, anyone is still free to believe whatever they want, but that does not mean their opinion is factually based.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammyjh View Post
Your statement seems to imply that everyone should agree with you that in the earliest stages of development, its not a human baby. I work with the assumption that "I" feel that it is a baby in its earliest stages of development. Its not up to me to tell you that you should agree with me....and its ok with me if you don't.
I thought that is why it is being discussed here. So we can discuss the specifics and come to understand from common terms. Please, take the effort to present your case that a fertilized egg is a "baby" so that others may understand your perspective.

How do you come to this determination? What criteria do you use to define a "baby" in this way. How many babies is it? How do you differentiate a fertilized egg/human baby from that of a fertilized egg/mouse baby? What exactly is it that makes one a human and not the other? Is it a unique mix of DNA? Is it something about how it looks? Is it where it is located?
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