[Banned-coughburp]

First of all, MOMO if you reread my post it will say if we took specific verses to follow then we would support pornography, murder and all different other things....not the entire bible. That is my point, you have to follow the entire bible to use support and not specific things.

I agree, Kevin did a very good job at using the bible but the bible can be used to say that abortion is NOT wrong as well. Please visit this site b/c I think it is a very good example of how the bible cannot be used for just specific verses:

http://www.elroy.net/ehr/abortion.html

Thou shall not kill...

Why can't people, who will kill in a war, not see abortion as a war of a social issue on women?

I don't understand why it's ok when GWB says we are going to sacrifice our sons and daughters along with innocent civilans, including women and children to "give democracy" to a country ruled by a dictator..
Yet women, who sacrafice their fetuses to continue to live in this world, some with children already, aren't given the same understanding...

I know, I know... we're referring to the Bible, right?

[mom2princesses]

Thou shall not kill...

Why can't people, who will kill in a war, not see abortion as a war of a social issue on women?

I don't understand why it's ok when GWB says we are going to sacrifice our sons and daughters along with innocent civilans, including women and children to "give democracy" to a country ruled by a dictator..
Yet women, who sacrafice their fetuses to continue to live in this world, some with children already, aren't given the same understanding...

I know, I know... we're referring to the Bible, right?
[/b]

Most of the time... in war, a death is justifiable. You are fighting to stay alive. Abortion is not justifiable... you are right it is a social issue! Not a necessary act!

Why GWB says we are at war with an enemy... is not really relavant to the abortion issue!

Most of the time... in war, a death is justifiable. You are fighting to stay alive. Abortion is not justifiable... you are right it is a social issue! Not a necessary act!

Why GWB says we are at war with an enemy... is not really relavant to the abortion issue![/b]

Again, it may not be necessary for you but for some, it feels that way. And I think people who say thou shall not kill and then say war is justifiable, isn't using that same logic to a women who feels pretty darn justified in her decision to have an abortion. Why? Because it's a twist of the scripture to suit their opinion for one but not the other.

[wifey2kevin]

I agree, Kevin did a very good job at using the bible but the bible can be used to say that abortion is NOT wrong as well. Please visit this site b/c I think it is a very good example of how the bible cannot be used for just specific verses:

http://www.elroy.net/ehr/abortion.html[/b]

I've visited that site before. That site is made by non-christians, with many other links including "How to Fight the Religeous Right", "Why Focus on the Family is the Devil", "When Christ was Gay" and "Saving our Children from the Bible".

Someone who is not a christian is not going to be able to fully grasp what the bible has to say. Those who made the site, made it with anti-christian tendencies. A christian can not except interpretation on such weighty subjects from the Bible, from someone who is only out to attack them. They are using the bible to make rediculous claims, that any christian who knows their bible, can see that it's false.. Just reading some of the stuff they have to say on there turns my stomach. Jesus was gay? No, I'm sorry, he was not. Any one with a brain can read the bible and see that not only was Jesus not gay, but homosexuality is an abomination in God's eyes, just like the others sins laid out in 1 Cor. 6:9-10.

It's simple, don't listen to an exesesis of scripture from someone who doesn't even beleive in it! They twist the bible even more so to fit their agenda, not God's agenda.

If you would like a site to visit, I'd suggest: Desiring God

God Bless

Christianity's intolerance is part of the reason why I can't see myself ever converting.. Without even checking out that site, how do we know Jesus wasn't gay? I don't remember his wife and children. If Jesus didn't hurt anyone, why would it matter if he was gay?

That said, I don't think a mystical being created by an organization to brainwash people to one way of thinking would ever have a gay person in the center of it...

[baccalynnwv]

(Kristin's husband again)[/b]

....Pretty much all of his posts ......

Without even checking out that site, how do we know Jesus wasn't gay? I don't remember his wife and children. If Jesus didn't hurt anyone, why would it matter if he was gay?[/b]

Are you kidding me? If you are refering to the Jesus of the Bible..

Jesus was God in the flesh. Why would God say that homosexuality was an abomination and then send himself in the flesh to eath as a gay man?

The whole point of Christians not agreeing with the gay lifestyle is because it DOES hurt someone. In the end it hurts the homosexual who will, according to the Bible, spend enternity in Hell for the sin. It might also hurt the homosexual's family members who might follow in their footsteps.

But thats for another topic.

[wifey2kevin]

Christianity's intolerance is part of the reason why I can't see myself ever converting.. Without even checking out that site, how do we know Jesus wasn't gay? I don't remember his wife and children. If Jesus didn't hurt anyone, why would it matter if he was gay?[/b]

Just because someone doesn't have a wife and kids, makes them gay? We know Jesus wasn't gay by reading the bible. I suggest you check it out. Homosexuality is a sin in the bible, and if Jesus were gay, he would not be sinless, and his sacrifice for our salvation would not mean anything.

Of course you don't want to covert to Christianity, no one does. The bible says in Romans 9:11 that no one seeks after God, no one has a real understanding of him. You come to God when he draws you to him (John 6:44). John 6:63-65 expands further on this. The spirit gives eternal life, human effort accomplishes nothing. You cannot choose to become a christian, you are called to be one. Romans 9:16 is a good verse as well: "So receiving God's promise is not up to us. We can't get it by choosing it or working hard for it. God will show mercy to anyone he chooses."

God Bless

Jesus was God in the flesh. Why would God say that homosexuality was an abomination and then send himself in the flesh to eath as a gay man?

The whole point of Christians not agreeing with the gay lifestyle is because it DOES hurt someone. In the end it hurts the homosexual who will, according to the Bible, spend enternity in Hell for the sin. It might also hurt the homosexual's family members who might follow in their footsteps.

But thats for another topic.
[/b]

I did agree with you ~ there is no way Jesus could have been gay.. because the basises of the Bible would then be a fraud, right?

But that is the point.. Let's pretend we know for a fact that the devil and H e l l exsist... the gay person would be sent there... therefore noone other than that one person was hurt. (You're all saved for being heterosexual!) Let's also assume, that family member's follow their footsteps. Guess what? You're still saved! Let's assume the devil and he ll exist.. Why the need to point the finger at a person and say " you're da mned for eterinity.. why can't we let that gay person decide that's their fate?

Just because someone doesn't have a wife and kids, makes them gay? We know Jesus wasn't gay by reading the bible. I suggest you check it out. Homosexuality is a sin in the bible, and if Jesus were gay, he would not be sinless, and his sacrifice for our salvation would not mean anything.

Of course you don't want to covert to Christianity, no one does. The bible says in Romans 9:11 that no one seeks after God, no one has a real understanding of him. You come to God when he draws you to him (John 6:44). John 6:63-65 expands further on this. The spirit gives eternal life, human effort accomplishes nothing. You cannot choose to become a christian, you are called to be one. Romans 9:16 is a good verse as well: "So receiving God's promise is not up to us. We can't get it by choosing it or working hard for it. God will show mercy to anyone he chooses."

God Bless
[/b]

I'm trying really hard to continue reading the bible but I must confess, these types of post make it harder and harder to have the open spirit I need to have to get the understanding..

I think I could start quoting the Bible but i'm open about not being a Christian. When "Christians" do it, after they tell us about sinning, I'm supposed to accept their words as fact yet I'm sure my quotes wouldn't be viewed the same, even though I may have finished reading the whole bloody book.

[mom2princesses]

Christianity's intolerance is part of the reason why I can't see myself ever converting.. Without even checking out that site, how do we know Jesus wasn't gay? I don't remember his wife and children. If Jesus didn't hurt anyone, why would it matter if he was gay?

That said, I don't think a mystical being created by an organization to brainwash people to one way of thinking would ever have a gay person in the center of it...[/b]

You know Michelle... You have sunk to a new low...

Christ was not Gay!!! Like many other fellow Christian's have posted on his thread... It was stated qutie clearly in the bible that homosexuality is an abomination. It also is quite clear that Murder is a sin. Therefore... abortion is sinful. Motherhood and Fatherhood is very sacred and considered to be a treasured gift... I could not imagine why God would agree with it or condone any abortion for any reason.

As for the Mystical Being Created by an organization to brainwashe people... You would be referring to our Faith in God our Eternal Father and his Son Jesus Christ. This is very, very sacred to us and I would appreciate a little respect.

[MommySN]

This states that Adam didn't become a "living soul" until God breathed air into him.[/b]

Yes, God. This is understood to mean that Adam received his soul, not when his O2/CO2 gas exchange changed. Also, Adam was not born of a womb, so his gas exchange would never have changed, would it?

Again, thank God that we Catholics have the Holy See... personal interpretation is nuts.

As for the Mystical Being Created by an organization to brainwashe people... You would be referring to our Faith in God our Eternal Father and his Son Jesus Christ. This is very, very sacred to us and I would appreciate a little respect.[/b]

Respect? You tell me I need to show respect... pot calling the kettle right?


Jesus was not gay, how many times do I need to agree with that? It's true!

[MommySN]

(Kristin's husband again)

Everything that I wrote was copied and pasted from the bible and my brain. You must think I wrote it well, thanks for the compliment [/b]

All I can say is, "BRAVO!" That was stated excellently ...

I think you misread your bible. In my bible it says miscarriage not premature. I'm sure there are thousands of different translations and the bible is meant to be translated.[/b]

Again, thank God for the Holy See ...

Also, it is easier for a true Christian to understand the Scriptures than someone who is not faithful.

Where did I say Jesus was gay? I DIDN'T.

You know Michelle... You have sunk to a new low... [/b]

But it's not personal right?

[MommySN]

"Sola Scriptura" .... (Thank you Martin Luther and the rest of those responsible for the Reformation!)[/b]

Oh, God ... there goes my lunch. You just totally lost me with that one. But that is a religious difference and would do well in the religion debate thread. (I certainly wouldn't thank anyone who rejected the church Christ founded.)

But I applaud your efforts on behalf of the unborn. In that, we are unified!

using the 1611 King James as a foundation. I'd suggest a version that is translated from the original texts, not from another translation, and one that is translated not word by word, but idea by idea.[/b]

<<< INSERT FAINTING SMILIE HERE >>>

Why do Protestants love the KJV so much?

[baccalynnwv]

I did agree with you ~ there is no way Jesus could have been gay.. because the basises of the Bible would then be a fraud, right?

But that is the point.. Let's pretend we know for a fact that the devil and H e l l exsist... the gay person would be sent there... therefore noone other than that one person was hurt. (You're all saved for being heterosexual!) Let's also assume, that family member's follow their footsteps. Guess what? You're still saved! Let's assume the devil and he ll exist.. Why the need to point the finger at a person and say " you're da mned for eterinity.. why can't we let that gay person decide that's their fate?
[/b]

Sorry to continue to take this off topic:

I relly don't understand your point here. Why even ask that question if you already knew the answer and agreed that Jesus wasn't gay? The answer - which you say you already agreed to, has nothing to do with homosexuals choosing their own fate.

All I can do is tell a homosexual what my God says about being gay should the person be willing to hear. I am not the one that sends them to Hell. The homosexual him or herself chooses if they believe it or not and STILL decides their own fate. I can't help what my God has already said on the situation. Same goes with abortion.

No one is pointing the finger. It was asked about the Christian belief on homosexuality and abortion. Christians answered. The argument was brought to us. Not the other way around. And any Christian going out of their way to hatefully prosecute a homosexual needs to study up on how to be a good witness.

[MommySN]

First of all, MOMO if you reread my post it will say if we took specific verses to follow then we would support pornography, murder and all different other things....not the entire bible. That is my point, you have to follow the entire bible to use support and not specific things.

I agree, Kevin did a very good job at using the bible but the bible can be used to say that abortion is NOT wrong as well. Please visit this site b/c I think it is a very good example of how the bible cannot be used for just specific verses:

http://www.elroy.net/ehr/abortion.html[/b]

WHAT? The author of that site is a non-Christian liberal. His personal interpretation means about as much to me and my faith as the menu at KFC. Dig deeper and talk to people who know the Bible inside and out, including it's origin. I can give the e-mail of a priest if you want.

Thou shall not kill...

Why can't people, who will kill in a war, not see abortion as a war of a social issue on women?

I don't understand why it's ok when GWB says we are going to sacrifice our sons and daughters along with innocent civilans, including women and children to "give democracy" to a country ruled by a dictator..
Yet women, who sacrafice their fetuses to continue to live in this world, some with children already, aren't given the same understanding...

I know, I know... we're referring to the Bible, right?
[/b]

You know, I totally agree. But you are forgetting that when you enlist in the military, you know that there is a chance that you could be sent off to war, never to return. The unborn do not sign on a dotted line saying that they understand that they might die in the course of pregnancy. The uborn are the ultimate in innocence. The shedding of their blood is the worst atrocity there is.

One cannot equate a life given freely in defense of others (soldiers), a life taken because of heinous crimes, and that of the life taken from the unborn out of mere convenience.

But I understand your post, and am against the death penalty and war alike. Life is sacred and should be treated as thus.

Again, it may not be necessary for you but for some, it feels that way. And I think people who say thou shall not kill and then say war is justifiable, isn't using that same logic to a women who feels pretty darn justified in her decision to have an abortion. Why? Because it's a twist of the scripture to suit their opinion for one but not the other.
[/b]

The OT says "an eye for an eye." Killing, say, Osama Bin Laden would be justifiable. Killing an unborn child because the parents were careless is not. They are not the same.

I relly don't understand your point here.[/b]

In post 25 it was brought up the website listed is completely false, including the gay issue.. why did the Christian then bring it up to dicuss?

The OT says "an eye for an eye." Killing, say, Osama Bin Laden would be justifiable. Killing an unborn child because the parents were careless is not. They are not the same.[/b]

It depends your pov... I see you and can agree, based on whether or not we agree on certain scripture, OT or NT..

[mom2princesses]

QUOTE(mom2princesses @ Apr 10 2006, 10:48 AM)
As for the Mystical Being Created by an organization to brainwashe people... You would be referring to our Faith in God our Eternal Father and his Son Jesus Christ. This is very, very sacred to us and I would appreciate a little respect.



Respect? You tell me I need to show respect... pot calling the kettle right?


Jesus was not gay, how many times do I need to agree with that? It's true![/b]

Yes!!! Asking you to give Jesus a little respect is not to much to ask. What is wrong with that?

As for saying that Jesus is NOT gay and continuing to discuss with little digs like, "he did not have a wife and kids", or "what if he was, he did not hurt anyone." That is not right! Even if it was just to discuss. We should not refer to him in derogatory ways.

[baccalynnwv]

In post 25 it was brought up the website listed is completely false, including the gay issue.. why did the Christian then bring it up to dicuss?

[/b]

Huh?

Why did the Christian then bring what up? the website? I'm sorry, but I think she has misinterpreted the Bible and the website. That website was not Christian!

I'm not Catholic but through my own studies have come to the same conclusion as the others on this thread. I also use the Strongs. I think she has proven her very own point that you can not pick and choose certain scriptures from the bible, but have to take the whole bible into context. She not only pick and choose verses, but they were taken out of context. Those verse referring to the people wishing they were never born.... were just that. They wished it and regretted it because their life was filled with trouble. It didn't have anything to do with abortion. The statements were similar to the statements made by depressed people today. Their statements, as negative to life as they are, have nothing to do with what God has stated about killing or what he would say about abortion.