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Abortion Debate

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View Poll Results: Pro-Choice or Pro-Life?
Pro-Choice 92 51.11%
Pro-Life 77 42.78%
Other (please explain) 11 6.11%
Voters: 180. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
February 24th, 2010, 07:13 AM
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I think you're missing my point. Voting is an action that either results in change or keeps things the same. Feelings without action don't affect other people.
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  #22  
February 24th, 2010, 01:16 PM
IAmMomMomIAm
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Originally Posted by Jess is Write View Post
I think you're missing my point. Voting is an action that either results in change or keeps things the same. Feelings without action don't affect other people.
Nah, I get that. I'm just thinking that even if I never vote on the issue at all, I still have feelings about it one way or the other. I didn't ask "which way would you vote" I asked if you're pro-choice or pro-life. I guess I meant fundamentally.

I think what you (general) think and feel is just as important as what you vote for. Not voicing an opinion doesn't mean you don't have one.
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  #23  
February 24th, 2010, 01:39 PM
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Literally sitting here and scratching my head. Someone who believes abortion is wrong but votes against government restrictions of it is still, by definition, pro-choice. If you didn't want to talk about the political stance on the issue, then you should have asked for feelings on abortion itself.
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  #24  
February 24th, 2010, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jess is Write View Post
Literally sitting here and scratching my head. Someone who believes abortion is wrong but votes against government restrictions of it is still, by definition, pro-choice. If you didn't want to talk about the political stance on the issue, then you should have asked for feelings on abortion itself.
I don't object to the political side being discussed. I'm just arguing that it's not the only deciding factor on what someone's standpoint is on it. I guess one has to decide what's more important to them: to you, how you'd vote is more important. To me, how I feel is more important. Those are our deciding factors. I would imagine most others have a given deciding factor as well, whichever side of the fence they sit on.
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  #25  
February 24th, 2010, 02:00 PM
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It's two very different issues though. The pro-life/pro-choice debate is strictly political, i.e. how do you vote when it comes up on a ballot.

The abortion debate gets into moral/philosophical/religious reasoning. Someone can easily be anti-abortion and pro-choice. It's not one or the other.
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  #26  
February 25th, 2010, 06:34 AM
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I guess I don't see it as a strictly political stance. If someone would never vote on the issue at all, does that mean they don't have a stance?
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  #27  
February 25th, 2010, 07:30 AM
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I guess it's kind of like claiming you're a democrat or republican but never registering to vote. You can still believe in the ideals and platforms of the party, but by not voting you're not asserting your voice.
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  #28  
February 26th, 2010, 03:22 AM
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I'm pro-life
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  #29  
March 22nd, 2010, 11:32 AM
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I don't know how any mother could be "pro-choice" after seeing an ultrasound. Even as early as 6 weeks, the ultrasound shows an innocent LIFE!
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  #30  
March 22nd, 2010, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by lonisthird View Post
I don't know how any mother could be "pro-choice" after seeing an ultrasound. Even as early as 6 weeks, the ultrasound shows an innocent LIFE!
.. just as I can't understand how any mother who put an ounce of effort into caring for her body while pregnant then giving birth could honestly say with a straight face every woman who gets pregnant should do it too. (Of course, that's not even including the mothering effort it takes after the fact.)
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  #31  
March 22nd, 2010, 08:58 PM
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never heard of adoption? What kind of woman has this mentality "Taking care of my pregnant body is hard, labor and delivery takes effort, so I'm just going to murder this fetus." Of course it would be hard to go through that, and then give the baby up. A life full of guilt would be hard too.
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  #32  
March 23rd, 2010, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by lonisthird View Post
never heard of adoption? What kind of woman has this mentality "Taking care of my pregnant body is hard, labor and delivery takes effort, so I'm just going to murder this fetus." Of course it would be hard to go through that, and then give the baby up. A life full of guilt would be hard too.
.....

Step outside your paradigm and consider what other women have actually lived through.

Forcing women to carry pregnancies (ie forcing them through 9 months of pregnancy that they do not want and then FORCING them to give the child up for adoption, which is essentially the view YOU hold) is just as morally disgusting as forcing women to get abortions. Just saying.

Adoption is not for everyone, just as abortion and keeping the child is not for everyone. Step outside your box, or you will never learn what reality is. This issue will never be black and white. And honestly, how would YOU feel if YOU were forced to get an abortion, as YOU feel that women should only be FORCED to get adoptions or keep the child?

As a woman, I can't possibly imagine giving anyone else the rights over my own body, my own uterus, my own ovaries, my own reproductive health, and my own reproductive choices. Then again, what the hell do I know, I'm just that young woman who had an unplanned pregnancy in high school, who CHOSE to have her child and do what she could for that child - but no one else made that decision, I did. Guess what that is? Autonomy. Key word - CHOSE. I.E. = CHOICE.

You cannot have autonomy over your own body, your own uterus, your own ovaries, your own reproductive rights, when you are so willing to strip them from others. Period.

Last edited by irishxrose; March 23rd, 2010 at 01:46 AM.
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  #33  
March 23rd, 2010, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by lonisthird View Post
I don't know how any mother could be "pro-choice" after seeing an ultrasound. Even as early as 6 weeks, the ultrasound shows an innocent LIFE!
I'm not denying that the u/s shows "life" but I'm a firm believer that sometimes hard choices need to be made. Choices that others may never understand.
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  #34  
March 23rd, 2010, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by lonisthird View Post
never heard of adoption? What kind of woman has this mentality "Taking care of my pregnant body is hard, labor and delivery takes effort, so I'm just going to murder this fetus." Of course it would be hard to go through that, and then give the baby up. A life full of guilt would be hard too.
Ever heard of babies who are tortured to death in the womb because of the mother is abusing drugs? Have you ever seen a premature baby born because of the mother's abuse? They die a painful death. So what kind of woman forces a baby in the womb to go through torture just so you can feel "good" about not having an abortion?
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  #35  
March 24th, 2010, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by irishxrose View Post
.....

[. . .]

Adoption is not for everyone, just as abortion and keeping the child is not for everyone. Step outside your box, or you will never learn what reality is. This issue will never be black and white. And honestly, how would YOU feel if YOU were forced to get an abortion, as YOU feel that women should only be FORCED to get adoptions or keep the child?

As a woman, I can't possibly imagine giving anyone else the rights over my own body, my own uterus, my own ovaries, my own reproductive health, and my own reproductive choices. Then again, what the hell do I know, I'm just that young woman who had an unplanned pregnancy in high school, who CHOSE to have her child and do what she could for that child - but no one else made that decision, I did. Guess what that is? Autonomy. Key word - CHOSE. I.E. = CHOICE.
I guess the main argument has always been that the uterus is yours, but the baby is its own person, right? But even that loses merit when you consider it from a different standpoint.. you (nor the government) can't legally force me to carry your injured body as much as three feet. If you can't walk on your own, if you can't move, if you wouldn't survive without help, I am not legally required to help you, or carry you to safety, or bring you someplace where someone else will care for you.

A fetus cannot communicate, walk, or survive without help. But if I'm not legally required to help a grown human in this same situation, why would I be required to help a fetus?

I guess maybe because it's my own child.. I think someone can be charged with a crime for not bringing their child to safety.. child endangerment perhaps. I suppose it's not legal for you to leave your child under a fallen bookcase without trying to help. We have legal obligations to our own children that we don't have to other people.

Which would mean that, if we have parental rights to a fetus, we should also be held to the legal standards of all of other children. We can't be drug addicts and keep our children because we can't properly care for the children. It's illegal to do something to our own bodies that inadvertently effects another person. So why can we do drugs and knowing harm our fetus? Does that mean that the fetus is not my child?

And now we're back to the beginning.. that a fetus is not its own person, and is just part of the mother. But wait! It's not!

I hope I'm making my point here.. or somewhat close. Even when I argue this with MYSELF it goes in circles. The abortion debate will never end. Should it be made illegal, the fight to make it legal again will spring back up. it's pretty much endless.

Oh, Andrika. I'm not trying to make this point to you, I just quoted you because you brought up the part about reproductive choice, which is where the argument circle starts, so I used your post as a spring board for mine. Hope you don't mind.
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  #36  
March 25th, 2010, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lonisthird View Post
I don't know how any mother could be "pro-choice" after seeing an ultrasound. Even as early as 6 weeks, the ultrasound shows an innocent LIFE!
I'm pro-choice because I don't want you to ever be forced to abort a baby you want to keep. Perhaps you could extend the same courtesy to others.
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  #37  
March 26th, 2010, 10:59 AM
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I've never understand that...

If it's made illegal to abort the life of your fetus, how does that equate to the fear of being forced to abort? it's illegal to abort the life of an adult, but we aren't ever forced to do it.

How does legally banning abortion turn into forced abortion?
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  #38  
March 26th, 2010, 11:24 AM
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I voted other because while I do believe abortion is wrong for me. I do not dictate to or have another dictate how someone else lives their life or does to their own body or that of their unborn child.

Personally first trimester abortions to 10 weeks are, for lack of a better or the correct word, understandable to a degree however anything beyond that is wrong IMO. I do not at all believe in 2nd/3rd trimester abortions. I was born in the 2nd trimester and I cannot at all see how someone could abort at that point; I'm speaking from a moral/personal not legal standpoint here. I know that viability of the fetus is often what is used as a pro for abortions that late in pregnancy.
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  #39  
March 26th, 2010, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Keskes View Post
I've never understand that...

If it's made illegal to abort the life of your fetus, how does that equate to the fear of being forced to abort? it's illegal to abort the life of an adult, but we aren't ever forced to do it.

How does legally banning abortion turn into forced abortion?
Because you're surrendering control of your body just because you're pregnant. If we allow the government to dictate who MUST carry a pregnancy to full term, then we are also granting the government the right to dictate who MUST NOT carry a pregnancy. We always hear the exception of rape, incest or when the mother's life is in danger when talking about abortion laws. Well, who is going to decide what qualifies as an exception? What if a state passes a law that all rape victims who are impregnated in the attack will undergo an abortion because the tissue contains DNA evidence? The bottom line is we would be handing over the CHOICE to someone other than the mother, and that can go either way.
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  #40  
March 26th, 2010, 12:31 PM
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Yeah, I don't get the whole concept still. I can't imagine that would ever happen, or that that law would ever pass even if someone wanted it to.
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