Log In Sign Up

Your Stance


Abortion Debate

This forum is for Abortion debate only. If you are highly sensitive about this topic, read at your own discretion.

Welcome to the JustMommies Message Boards.

We pride ourselves on having the friendliest and most welcoming forums for moms and moms to be! Please take a moment and register for free so you can be a part of our growing community of mothers. If you have any problems registering please drop an email to boards@justmommies.com.

Our community is moderated by our moderation team so you won't see spam or offensive messages posted on our forums. Each of our message boards is hosted by JustMommies hosts, whose names are listed at the top each board. We hope you find our message boards friendly, helpful, and fun to be on!

View Poll Results: Pro-Choice or Pro-Life?
Pro-Choice 92 51.11%
Pro-Life 77 42.78%
Other (please explain) 11 6.11%
Voters: 180. You may not vote on this poll

Like Tree2Likes

Reply Post New Topic
  Subscribe To Abortion Debate LinkBack Topic Tools Search this Topic Display Modes
  #121  
June 20th, 2010, 03:49 PM
*Dayna*'s Avatar Aussie Mama
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by (.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.) View Post
I just want to make sure that even with the explanation above, you still consider abortion murder, right?
I do.

Yet I feel for the mothers who have had abortions. I can't imagine the pain ad anguish they must have went through. I still have compassion for them, although I don't agree with it.
__________________
Nothing is better than being with your family. Finally reunited after 5 long months <3
Reply With Quote
  #122  
June 20th, 2010, 03:58 PM
(.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Dayna~ View Post
I do.

Yet I feel for the mothers who have had abortions. I can't imagine the pain ad anguish they must have went through. I still have compassion for them, although I don't agree with it.
It's ok because I feel you're a murderer for wiping off your germs by your own definition. I don't just give the term murder the same energy you do because by your own definition, murder just doesn't mean that much.
Reply With Quote
  #123  
June 20th, 2010, 05:06 PM
*Dayna*'s Avatar Aussie Mama
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,329
Well funnily enough we live in America, so you have the right to believe whatever you want. I'm done with this, it's ridiculous.
__________________
Nothing is better than being with your family. Finally reunited after 5 long months <3
Reply With Quote
  #124  
June 21st, 2010, 08:22 AM
TheMrs's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Dayna~ View Post
Well funnily enough we live in America, so you have the right to believe whatever you want. I'm done with this, it's ridiculous.
I'm prochoice and I understand you. To you human life starts at conception therefore ending it unnaturally is murder. You choose for it to stay legal because you are very realistic and understand that simply because something becomes illegal, doesn't mean it does not happen. And if a life is to be taken you would rather see it done because that is the purpose of the act and results in the end in one life rather than two.

Wiping down the counter is not murder b/c we are speaking of human life, not that of bacteria. This statement is as illogical as saying prochoicers think the ending of human life after birth is not murder.

Things are rarely black and white and it seems quite clearly you understand that Dayna.
__________________




Last edited by TheMrs; June 21st, 2010 at 08:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #125  
June 21st, 2010, 09:26 AM
(.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMrs View Post
I'm prochoice and I understand you. To you human life starts at conception therefore ending it unnaturally is murder. You choose for it to stay legal because you are very realistic and understand that simply because something becomes illegal, doesn't mean it does not happen. And if a life is to be taken you would rather see it done because that is the purpose of the act and results in the end in one life rather than two.

Wiping down the counter is not murder b/c we are speaking of human life, not that of bacteria. This statement is as illogical as saying prochoicers think the ending of human life after birth is not murder.

Things are rarely black and white and it seems quite clearly you understand that Dayna.
Well, I do understand it's not black and white either TheMrs. However, Dayna is not communicating as well as you are. I too am pro-choice and I was hoping that she could see how ignorant and callous calling abortion murder can be without the communication skills to back it up. I'm glad you weighed in and I thought a few other pro-life would have chimed in to back her up. I wanted to understand how her stance works and unfortunately she just didn't know to communicate it on a debate without getting emotionally upset at my questions.
Reply With Quote
  #126  
June 21st, 2010, 10:07 AM
TheMrs's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by (.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.) View Post
Well, I do understand it's not black and white either TheMrs. However, Dayna is not communicating as well as you are. I too am pro-choice and I was hoping that she could see how ignorant and callous calling abortion murder can be without the communication skills to back it up. I'm glad you weighed in and I thought a few other pro-life would have chimed in to back her up. I wanted to understand how her stance works and unfortunately she just didn't know to communicate it on a debate without getting emotionally upset at my questions.
So if you recognized that why did you keep at her? Sorry I understand you wanted her view, but I feel at some point debates can become attacks. I could be wrong, but this bordered on it to me.
__________________




Last edited by TheMrs; June 21st, 2010 at 10:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #127  
June 21st, 2010, 10:33 AM
(.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMrs View Post
So if you recognized that why did you keep at her?
Opinions on the debates are about understanding a poster's perspective. If they can't communicate their own perspective, then it's a window of self-reflection on her part. If I can't communicate my perspective, then it's a self-reflection for me. I really do learn here on the debates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMrs View Post
Sorry I understand you wanted her view, but I feel at some point debates can become attacks. I could be wrong, but this bordered on it to me.
I find that asking three questions at once don't get answers. One at a time do.
Reply With Quote
  #128  
June 21st, 2010, 10:37 AM
TheMrs's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 0
I see. I agree it was the format of the questions that made me think this. I am sure this allows for more discussion as well.
__________________



Reply With Quote
  #129  
June 21st, 2010, 10:44 AM
(.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Reply With Quote
  #130  
June 21st, 2010, 11:44 AM
*Dayna*'s Avatar Aussie Mama
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,329
Thanks

I can't debate, this is obvious. I'm new at this, so give me time. I can't get my point across as well as you ladies. And I know it's truly obvious I just get flustered sometimes because I just don't understand what some of you are trying to say. I've never debated and I can see that most of you have done this for years. Not me.

I really do see that it's callous to say abortion is murder, but that's what I feel it is. Although I have compassion for women who have had abortions, I just can't help but see it as that.
__________________
Nothing is better than being with your family. Finally reunited after 5 long months <3
Reply With Quote
  #131  
June 21st, 2010, 11:51 AM
(.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.)
Guest
Posts: n/a

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Dayna~ View Post
I really do see that it's callous to say abortion is murder, but that's what I feel it is. Although I have compassion for women who have had abortions, I just can't help but see it as that.
I hope in time you'll be able to defend it better.

It's even hard for me. After growing a baby in my body, I can't imagine anyone expecting another woman to do that. The double edge sword? I couldn't imagine having an abortion at this point in my life knowing it's a forming baby. I don't judge others because I've seen my own parents treat me AWFUL in my childhood. I can't understand that either but that is judgmental on my part. I don't want children being treated bad, starving, or being neglected. Considering most babies are hungry, &/or not getting quality food, I support abortion. I wish there was a better way because I know it's not black and white. Abortion is killing a fetus. I just don't use the term murder because I don't feel it's killing with negative intent.
Reply With Quote
  #132  
June 21st, 2010, 11:58 AM
*Dayna*'s Avatar Aussie Mama
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by (.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.) View Post


I hope in time you'll be able to defend it better.

It's even hard for me. After growing a baby in my body, I can't imagine anyone expecting another woman to do that. The double edge sword? I couldn't imagine having an abortion at this point in my life knowing it's a forming baby. I don't judge others because I've seen my own parents treat me AWFUL in my childhood. I can't understand that either but that is judgmental on my part. I don't want children being treated bad, starving, or being neglected. Considering most babies are hungry, &/or not getting quality food, I support abortion. I wish there was a better way because I know it's not black and white. Abortion is killing a fetus. I just don't use the term murder because I don't feel it's killing with negative intent.
I guess we'll see

The bolded has me thinking. I've never thought about it like that before. I understand women getting abortions because there is something wrong with the baby and it's unlikely to survive, alot of the time killing the mother in the process. But I've always thought adoption would be the answer. After reading alot of adoption questions here, it doesn't seem like the answer either. So I'm unsure. I don't use the words 'abortion is murder' in real life. Ever. Since I don't, I should refrain from using it online as well, although online it's easier to say things since you're not face to face.
__________________
Nothing is better than being with your family. Finally reunited after 5 long months <3
Reply With Quote
  #133  
June 21st, 2010, 12:26 PM
TheMrs's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by (.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.) View Post


I hope in time you'll be able to defend it better.

It's even hard for me. After growing a baby in my body, I can't imagine anyone expecting another woman to do that. The double edge sword? I couldn't imagine having an abortion at this point in my life knowing it's a forming baby. I don't judge others because I've seen my own parents treat me AWFUL in my childhood. I can't understand that either but that is judgmental on my part. I don't want children being treated bad, starving, or being neglected. Considering most babies are hungry, &/or not getting quality food, I support abortion. I wish there was a better way because I know it's not black and white. Abortion is killing a fetus. I just don't use the term murder because I don't feel it's killing with negative intent.
I know it is a different topic, but do you feel the same about capital punishment?
__________________



Reply With Quote
  #134  
June 21st, 2010, 02:38 PM
(.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Dayna~ View Post
I guess we'll see

The bolded has me thinking. I've never thought about it like that before. I understand women getting abortions because there is something wrong with the baby and it's unlikely to survive, alot of the time killing the mother in the process. But I've always thought adoption would be the answer. After reading alot of adoption questions here, it doesn't seem like the answer either. So I'm unsure. I don't use the words 'abortion is murder' in real life. Ever. Since I don't, I should refrain from using it online as well, although online it's easier to say things since you're not face to face.
Before having my dd, I knew adoption was an answer too. I didn't know how messed up and expense the adoption issue is. Recently people asked me when I was person of the week if I would adopt. Prior to having dd, I thought I would but that was before learning more about adoption. Hearing the stories here, I am appalled at the system now. I know I would never be able to afford it and I'm not sure if the process would make me want to financially sacrifice in the first place. I really doubt adoption would ever be on my radar because of it all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMrs View Post
I know it is a different topic, but do you feel the same about capital punishment?
I come from Canada so we don't have capital punishment here. I read about it happening in the Middle East and in the US. I don't really know if I can compare it? Maybe more with war? For example, I think war doesn't accomplish what it intends to. I do support the troops and would never tell them they are murderers for going over seas to kill said enemy. Does that help see more where I'm coming from?
Reply With Quote
  #135  
June 21st, 2010, 06:31 PM
TheMrs's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by (.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.) View Post
. I do support the troops and would never tell them they are murderers for going over seas to kill said enemy. Does that help see more where I'm coming from?
Some what. So were the enemies killed or murdered? What about civilians in the crossfire?
__________________



Reply With Quote
  #136  
June 21st, 2010, 07:35 PM
(.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMrs View Post
Some what. So were the enemies killed or murdered? What about civilians in the crossfire?
In a war, slaughter? What is your stance in war, abortion, capital punishment, murder and killing?
Reply With Quote
  #137  
June 22nd, 2010, 07:55 AM
IAmMomMomIAm
Guest
Posts: n/a
Here's my take on Michelle's questions, if anyone's interested

Wiping off my kitchen counter in order to kill bacteria isn't murder, it's more like self defense. Killing an animal for food isn't murder, but killing an animal because you feel like it is murder. Killing an animal or a person who would likely kill you first is not murder, it's self defense. If a tiger leaps at me with the intent to kill me, I am likely to attempt to protect myself, which could result in the death of the tiger (I'm nearly positive I would lose that fight, but run with the analogy for now).

The bacteria on my kitchen counter can also cause my death (eventually) so killing it is not murder. A farmer who kills a wolf to keep it from eating his sheep (i.e. protecting his livelihood) is not a murderer. A farmer who kills a wolf because he enjoys killing is.

So, if there is a woman out there who repeatedly has unprotected sex without regard to the life she might create, and callously has abortion after abortion, not caring about the children she's creating - she would be a murderer, and I admit that I would judge her negatively for her complete disregard of human life.

However, women like the above are very rare, and the average woman does not have an abortion because she disregards human life, but because she sees no other course of action that makes sense or seems available to her. She did take a human life (in my opinion), but not viciously or for no reason.

abortion, hunting for food, wiping the kitchen counter = killing (the taking of a life), but killing =/= murder.
Reply With Quote
  #138  
June 22nd, 2010, 10:51 AM
AMDG's Avatar Margaret
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Denver metro area
Posts: 2,988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keskes View Post
Here's my take on Michelle's questions, if anyone's interested

Wiping off my kitchen counter in order to kill bacteria isn't murder, it's more like self defense. Killing an animal for food isn't murder, but killing an animal because you feel like it is murder. Killing an animal or a person who would likely kill you first is not murder, it's self defense. If a tiger leaps at me with the intent to kill me, I am likely to attempt to protect myself, which could result in the death of the tiger (I'm nearly positive I would lose that fight, but run with the analogy for now).

The bacteria on my kitchen counter can also cause my death (eventually) so killing it is not murder. A farmer who kills a wolf to keep it from eating his sheep (i.e. protecting his livelihood) is not a murderer. A farmer who kills a wolf because he enjoys killing is.

So, if there is a woman out there who repeatedly has unprotected sex without regard to the life she might create, and callously has abortion after abortion, not caring about the children she's creating - she would be a murderer, and I admit that I would judge her negatively for her complete disregard of human life.

However, women like the above are very rare, and the average woman does not have an abortion because she disregards human life, but because she sees no other course of action that makes sense or seems available to her. She did take a human life (in my opinion), but not viciously or for no reason.

abortion, hunting for food, wiping the kitchen counter = killing (the taking of a life), but killing =/= murder.
really? so you value the bacteria, bugs, mammals and unborn people at all the same level? So, if you kill an ant by stepping on it outside that is murder? How do you decide what murder should be punishable and what murder is not? What murder is morally acceptable and what is not?

So, how does your example about the women having abortion after abortion differ from a person not properly cleaning her kitchen counter thus allowing bacteria to multiply and grow at a rapid rate?
If killing bacteria isn't murder because it is self-defense, how is that any different from killing someone who smokes in your house everyday?

Honestly Kes, this seems pretty silly to me - is this what you really believe?

eta:
definition of murder:
Date: before 12th century
1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought


what is your definition and where are you getting it? mine is from webster's online

Last edited by AMDG; June 22nd, 2010 at 10:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #139  
June 22nd, 2010, 12:47 PM
IAmMomMomIAm
Guest
Posts: n/a
I never put any quantifiable value on any life forms in my post. I was separating the idea of killing from the idea of murder, using examples of different living things.

"Killing =/= murder" means that killing does not ALWAYS equate to being murder. Sometimes abortion is murder, sometimes it's not. My personal opinion on what is murder and what is not does not need to follow a legal definition, and I'm allowed to move the line around as I see fit.
Reply With Quote
  #140  
June 22nd, 2010, 12:56 PM
AMDG's Avatar Margaret
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Denver metro area
Posts: 2,988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keskes View Post
I never put any quantifiable value on any life forms in my post. I was separating the idea of killing from the idea of murder, using examples of different living things.

"Killing =/= murder" means that killing does not ALWAYS equate to being murder. Sometimes abortion is murder, sometimes it's not. My personal opinion on what is murder and what is not does not need to follow a legal definition, and I'm allowed to move the line around as I see fit.
again, what is your definition of murder? and what is the point of the english language if a person can attach any meaning they want to a word?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Topic Tools Search this Topic
Search this Topic:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:11 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0