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New law RE: pregnancy and birth defects


Abortion Debate

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  #21  
May 3rd, 2010, 08:54 AM
Momof4Boyz's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I just find it sad that in order to protect a life a doctor might feel the need to lie to his/her patient. Basically, they might lie and deceive a mother in order to keep her from killing her own child. So, a mother like myself who would not terminate her child in a million years, regardless of what might or might not be wrong with him/her would have to risk being unprepared for a child with special needs just because someone else might have decided to kill their baby over a possible health issue. It's like being in school all over again- the whole class suffers from that one student acting out. Very sad that there would have to be a law like this.
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  #22  
May 3rd, 2010, 10:56 AM
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I am all for the ultrasound before aborting a child. I think it should be required in all decisions about abortion. However, withholding information contained in the ultrasound is just wrong. I can see the fears involved that in showing everything a woman would be more prone to choose to abort her baby, but it isn't their decision on whether the woman should be informed.
  #23  
May 3rd, 2010, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momof3Boyz View Post
I just find it sad that in order to protect a life a doctor might feel the need to lie to his/her patient. Basically, they might lie and deceive a mother in order to keep her from killing her own child. So, a mother like myself who would not terminate her child in a million years, regardless of what might or might not be wrong with him/her would have to risk being unprepared for a child with special needs just because someone else might have decided to kill their baby over a possible health issue. It's like being in school all over again- the whole class suffers from that one student acting out. Very sad that there would have to be a law like this.
I totally agree. All women in that state have to suffer because some women might terminate. I would never terminate my pregnancy, but I'd be extremely pissed if I knew the Doctor knew my child was going to have problems and didn't tell me and I had no chance to prepare beforehand so now I'm stuck struggling to find Doctors/therapists, etc. and educate myself while my baby is already here and needing attention.

That bill is disgusting and does a huge disservice to women, babies with special needs, and families.
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  #25  
May 3rd, 2010, 11:32 AM
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I agree it's a disgusting law the way I have read it most places but I also saw this description and thought IT made some sense

Quote:
The second bill fosters respect for babies with disabilities by disallowing wrongful-life lawsuits that claim a baby would have been better off being aborted and that a physician should have suggested an abortion
but in the end I think the woman should be given every piece of medical info regarding the health of her child and herself.
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  #26  
May 3rd, 2010, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mommiex2 View Post
But, that't the point. It is a woman's and family's *choice* whether or not they want to continue with a pregnancy when the baby is going to require special care.

What if the child that is born requires thousands in medical care, and the family simply cannot afford it? The family suffers, the child suffers, and the dotors are now free and clear from any liability. It's ironic that some people who are pro life (and I am not speaking of any poster in particular because I don't know their stances off hand) are only interested in making sure that a fetus is not aborted but are completely uninterested in the financially backing a child with severe medical needs. How is it considered "saving a life" when all you do is prevent an abortion? Who would want their life to be spared if all it was going to be is a life of pain and suffering because you can't get the medical treatment you require to sustain any kind of semblance of life? Sure, it's great to slap hands and congratulate yourself on keeping a child from being aborted, but the responsibility for the child by no means ends there... yet that's all the support some pro-lifers are willing to give.
You shouldn't have a baby if you are going in assuming it's going to be a little bundle of perfection that won't cause you any "financial" problems. You could give birth to the most perfect child in the world and have it develop cancer 2 years later - then what? That could easily put a family into financial ruin but you know what? Most families do whatever they have to do to give their child the best care they can. I don't see a difference between a 2 yr old with cancer or a unborn child with spina bifida. If all you're seeking is perfection and have no plans to raise your child because it might inconvenience your lifestyle or finances or be hard to do - then get a dog, they're cheaper and you can euthanize it at any point in it's life if it becomes a "burden" financially or otherwise.
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  #27  
May 3rd, 2010, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momof3Boyz View Post
You shouldn't have a baby if you are going in assuming it's going to be a little bundle of perfection that won't cause you any "financial" problems. You could give birth to the most perfect child in the world and have it develop cancer 2 years later - then what? That could easily put a family into financial ruin but you know what? Most families do whatever they have to do to give their child the best care they can. I don't see a difference between a 2 yr old with cancer or a unborn child with spina bifida. If all you're seeking is perfection and have no plans to raise your child because it might inconvenience your lifestyle or finances or be hard to do - then get a dog, they're cheaper and you can euthanize it at any point in it's life if it becomes a "burden" financially or otherwise.
Very good point, Rose.
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  #29  
May 3rd, 2010, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momof3Boyz View Post
You shouldn't have a baby if you are going in assuming it's going to be a little bundle of perfection that won't cause you any "financial" problems. You could give birth to the most perfect child in the world and have it develop cancer 2 years later - then what? That could easily put a family into financial ruin but you know what? Most families do whatever they have to do to give their child the best care they can. I don't see a difference between a 2 yr old with cancer or a unborn child with spina bifida. If all you're seeking is perfection and have no plans to raise your child because it might inconvenience your lifestyle or finances or be hard to do - then get a dog, they're cheaper and you can euthanize it at any point in it's life if it becomes a "burden" financially or otherwise.
Please.
Some people are capable of being unselfish enough to recognize that bringing a child into this world just to suffer and die is a horrible thing. It has nothing to do with finances but quality of life, life of the unborn child. In my book, there is nothing more selfish than purposely bring a kid into this world who is going to know nothing but pain just because I checked a certain box of pro-life or pro-choice. Wouldn't it be nice if those who supposedly were so into protecting the children actually thought about the children sometime.
  #30  
May 3rd, 2010, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eashley View Post
Please.
Some people are capable of being unselfish enough to recognize that bringing a child into this world just to suffer and die is a horrible thing. It has nothing to do with finances but quality of life, life of the unborn child. In my book, there is nothing more selfish than purposely bring a kid into this world who is going to know nothing but pain just because I checked a certain box of pro-life or pro-choice. Wouldn't it be nice if those who supposedly were so into protecting the children actually thought about the children sometime.
This. Word. For. Word.

I have met very few "pro-life" individuals but I have met a lot of "pro-fetus" individuals. I have suggested that the pro-life slogan be changed to "save the fetus, screw the children". It just seems to be more fitting to the typical agenda.
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  #31  
May 3rd, 2010, 03:32 PM
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First, I'm NOT pro-life, I'm anti-abortion (yeah, one of those). Just to get that straight. And agnostic too, no religious views on any of this either in case it goes that way.

What I'm saying is that obviously we don't all have the money to pay for a sick child, my husband and I don't but if we were faced with this - we'd find a way. If it meant selling our home and cars, we would. It's not even something I would have a second thought on. I love my kids and I would give up anything for them. But according to your theory if one of them becomes terminally ill, I should just get rid of them because why waste the money, the time, the effort on taking care of a child who won't grow up? Right? Save that money for the next kid. It'd be pointless to keep them any longer. And don't even play the "it's more humane than letting a sick child be born"... right. Killers get lethal injection... a painless, peaceful death that they don't deserve but babies, er, fetus's get torn apart, burnt from the inside out, decapitated, their brains sucked out... yeah, humane, right. That's much better than being hooked up to pain relief and oxygen for whatever bit of life you may have. I'd for sure opt for the dilation and evacuation or maybe the saline injection, I'm just not sure... they're all so tempting!

AND the dog thing - you're right, it's not right to kill the dog for no reason. But, just like abortion, it's perfectly legal! Isnít that just something!

Anyway, this got way off topic and I know there is NO changing anyone's minds, which is fine we're all allowed to feel differently but I'm not going to fight about it. So this is my last post on this topic.
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  #32  
May 3rd, 2010, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amegra View Post
Agreed. Just because some people may choose (as is their LEGAL RIGHT) to abort, does NOT make it okay to withhold medical information about their child.
QFT.
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  #33  
May 3rd, 2010, 03:47 PM
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*Paging Torrie, Stacey, Andrika*

I'm waaay to distracted to address the response two posts above mine, but I'll just say what I was going to say: the law is appalling (and I'm sitting on the abortion fence with facing the pro-life side of things)
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  #34  
May 3rd, 2010, 04:02 PM
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My biggest concern with this whole issue is that I absolutely don't agree with the underhanded methods that Pro-life politicians have come up with. Instead of refusing to tell a mother that her child has problems, why not use knowledge as power? I find it hard to believe that most children who are born with disabilities are so unhealthy that they cannot live more than a few hours. I know that is the case in some instances, and I am so sorry for any parent that goes through something heartwrenching like that. But, there are alot of disabilities where the child can still live a long, healthy life. I don't understand why doctors cannot be honest with the mother, and educate her on the type of life her child would have. There are so many types of therapy and treatment. I have a feeling a mother would feel much more prepared to give birth to a disabled child if she was fully informed.

I am by no means pro-life. I would never personally have an abortion but I believe every woman has the right to choose. I guess I just don't understand how this is the way to target "meaningless" abortions. Why not spend more time and money educating the mothers who are aborting for less reasonable reasons? Why not target those useless abortions instead of the parents that are dealing with real medical issues. I found stats that said that 3/4 of abortions are performed for women who feel they are not ready or cannot financially afford a child. That means that abortions for medical reasons are rare. So I guess I don't understand why you would not spend more time trying to educate women on the other options. I would think you would stop alot more possible abortions that way.
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Last edited by WendiEverlasting; May 3rd, 2010 at 04:03 PM. Reason: misspelling
  #36  
May 3rd, 2010, 06:32 PM
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Oh for the love of everything that is Holy you DID NOT JUST POST THAT!
  #37  
May 3rd, 2010, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Christy72 View Post
Oh for the love of everything that is Holy you DID NOT JUST POST THAT!
Oh try to still your delicate little heart. It's a diagram, meant to educate everyone on the process. One poster tried to claim that all abortions involve tearing and decapitating and Melinda's providing a diagram showing that's not the case. Pro-lifers get away with misrepresentations far too often, and I thank her for posting that.

Quote:
What I'm saying is that obviously we don't all have the money to pay for a sick child, my husband and I don't but if we were faced with this - we'd find a way. If it meant selling our home and cars, we would. It's not even something I would have a second thought on. I love my kids and I would give up anything for them. But according to your theory if one of them becomes terminally ill, I should just get rid of them because why waste the money, the time, the effort on taking care of a child who won't grow up? Right? Save that money for the next kid. It'd be pointless to keep them any longer. And don't even play the "it's more humane than letting a sick child be born"... right. Killers get lethal injection... a painless, peaceful death that they don't deserve but babies, er, fetus's get torn apart, burnt from the inside out, decapitated, their brains sucked out... yeah, humane, right. That's much better than being hooked up to pain relief and oxygen for whatever bit of life you may have. I'd for sure opt for the dilation and evacuation or maybe the saline injection, I'm just not sure... they're all so tempting!
This is how the Pro-Life movement hates women. Instead of blaming idiot doctors, or blaming the OK legislature, you are choosing the blame the WOMAN for DARING to maybe THINK about excersizing her CHOICE for this entire situation.

I don't think you hate women, but I think you've bought into some woman hate. Besides, you could probably literally tear a fetus apart and It wouldn't have the required nervous system to even be aware of it, much less interpret as pain. So that little bit of emotional terrorism falls on dead ears here.
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  #39  
May 3rd, 2010, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momof3Boyz View Post
First, I'm NOT pro-life, I'm anti-abortion (yeah, one of those). Just to get that straight. And agnostic too, no religious views on any of this either in case it goes that way.

What I'm saying is that obviously we don't all have the money to pay for a sick child, my husband and I don't but if we were faced with this - we'd find a way. If it meant selling our home and cars, we would. It's not even something I would have a second thought on. I love my kids and I would give up anything for them. But according to your theory if one of them becomes terminally ill, I should just get rid of them because why waste the money, the time, the effort on taking care of a child who won't grow up? Right? Save that money for the next kid. It'd be pointless to keep them any longer. And don't even play the "it's more humane than letting a sick child be born"... right. Killers get lethal injection... a painless, peaceful death that they don't deserve but babies, er, fetus's get torn apart, burnt from the inside out, decapitated, their brains sucked out... yeah, humane, right. That's much better than being hooked up to pain relief and oxygen for whatever bit of life you may have. I'd for sure opt for the dilation and evacuation or maybe the saline injection, I'm just not sure... they're all so tempting!

AND the dog thing - you're right, it's not right to kill the dog for no reason. But, just like abortion, it's perfectly legal! Isnít that just something!

Anyway, this got way off topic and I know there is NO changing anyone's minds, which is fine we're all allowed to feel differently but I'm not going to fight about it. So this is my last post on this topic.
It must be so nice to enter a debate, have your point challenged and then run away.
First, you are judging a level of pain on something that has yet to be measured. You are making general huge asumptions that fetuses feel pain and the abortion causes pain. You are also missing the fact that the last thing that a parent would be concerned about when faced with this situation is the cost. But yes, as long as our dying child has some pain medicine, that is a much better situation.
You have got to be kidding me...and even if I bought your logic, which for the record, I think is ridiculous, a moment of pain during an abortion has to be better than months or years of suffering, only to end up in the same fate.
As usual, the pro-life...excuse me, anti-abortion , are so focused on the needs and well being of the living.
  #40  
May 3rd, 2010, 07:54 PM
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Hey, silly question but have any of you READ hb2656?? because I'd really like to read it before getting all dramatic.
From what I can tell it would prohibit "wrongful life" lawsuits against doctors who withhold information about a fetus or pregnancy that could cause a woman to seek an abortion.
I'm not claiming any of you are wrong because I haven't read the bill and I assume you have but where are all of you getting this info that a doctor can lie, etc? Please post a link to the HB if you would so that I can, and probably others, can be better informed.
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