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disgusted..a freinds neighbor aborted because of spina bifida


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  #1  
September 26th, 2010, 07:46 AM
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I have 2 friends who both have Spina Bifida. It makes me very upset that someone would kill their own child just because of that. Our friends Dennis and Lisa are our best friends, and they always babysit my kids. They are the most wonderful people. I cannot believe that people cannot accept their own children for who they are. We are supposed to protect them. Both of my kids are delayed and my almost 2 year old son has a milder form of autism, and we are working with lots of specialists and doing a program to get him to learn to talk right now. Even if I had known my kids were going to be delayed,that is not my right to kill them because of who they are. It is the people with disabilities that are the strongest. They don't try to put on a front, they just show who they are. The way God made them. I also have a friend whose daughter, years ago was told by a songrapher that her unborn child did not have a brain. My dad is a pastor so we prayed about that and God told him that the Dr. was lying. She went through with the pregnancy and the child is 12 now and fine. They found out the sonographer was an abortionist and he had been lying to people so he can do abortions. How disgusting! Never trust just a Dr. Give your child a chance. If they are going to die, just let them be born and hold them and love them while they go, or if they have a chance to live, fight for them. Two words.. JUDGEMENT DAY! and it is closer than you may think.
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Last edited by mommy10_13; September 26th, 2010 at 08:08 AM.
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  #2  
September 26th, 2010, 08:10 AM
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Just because you can handle whatever "God" gives you doesn't mean that everyone else can. It's great that you would accept and carry a pregnancy to term even if that child had spina bifida, but why are you condemning everyone that doesn't want to? It's your kind of judgmental, egotistical and ignorant attitude that pisses me off.
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  #3  
September 26th, 2010, 08:19 AM
foxfire_ga79
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There are different degrees of spina bifida. It might have been so severe the baby would have ended up crippled or living a life not even worth living.
Did you ever consider that maybe that mother made a heart wrenching decision not because she couldn't accept her child, but because she wanted to spare her child a life of probable misery?
You have no right to look down your nose on people who make have to make such sad choices. Judgment day comes for everyone, including those who consider themselves holier than thou. Maybe instead of being disgusted at this woman you could be a little more Christ like and show her some compassion. If He can forgive her then you should too.
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  #4  
September 26th, 2010, 08:43 AM
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I am an atheist, and I don't believe God has anything coming my way.

I have a 2 year old (25 months) son with autism and nobody has an opinion about whether it's "mild" or not. They tell me it is too young to tell.

I would not abort over autism but I would consider it for spina bifida.

It is a really, really good idea to have second etc. opinions before receiving an abortion.
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  #5  
September 26th, 2010, 09:12 AM
Poncho06's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy10_13 View Post
I have 2 friends who both have Spina Bifida. It makes me very upset that someone would kill their own child just because of that. Our friends Dennis and Lisa are our best friends, and they always babysit my kids. They are the most wonderful people. I cannot believe that people cannot accept their own children for who they are. We are supposed to protect them. Both of my kids are delayed and my almost 2 year old son has a milder form of autism, and we are working with lots of specialists and doing a program to get him to learn to talk right now. Even if I had known my kids were going to be delayed,that is not my right to kill them because of who they are. It is the people with disabilities that are the strongest. They don't try to put on a front, they just show who they are. The way God made them. I also have a friend whose daughter, years ago was told by a songrapher that her unborn child did not have a brain. My dad is a pastor so we prayed about that and God told him that the Dr. was lying. She went through with the pregnancy and the child is 12 now and fine. They found out the sonographer was an abortionist and he had been lying to people so he can do abortions. How disgusting! Never trust just a Dr. Give your child a chance. If they are going to die, just let them be born and hold them and love them while they go, or if they have a chance to live, fight for them. Two words.. JUDGEMENT DAY! and it is closer than you may think.

I'm confused. This was an abortion Dr who moonlighted as a sonographer so he could lie to women in the hopes he could perform an abortion on them? There must be some sort of a link to a news story about this you can find because this sounds a little life time move to me.

As far as your original question goes, comparing autism to spinal bifida is like comparing apples and oranges. Spinal bifida has many different forms to it. I know this is a wiki link but it does give a pretty good overall definition of them and how it differs from minor and treated in utero to death and pain for the baby.

Spina bifida - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm thinking it may be better to learn all aspects of a disease prior to judging someone for a very difficult decision they have made, then to base it solely upon your limited life experience.

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Two words.. JUDGEMENT DAY! and it is closer than you may think.
and I have two word as well...... judge away. Last time I checked it was also a sin to judge others..... so I guess I'll see you in line.
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Last edited by Poncho06; September 26th, 2010 at 09:39 AM. Reason: spelling and added a bit more
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  #6  
September 26th, 2010, 10:53 AM
TheMrs's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Are you sure you are fully informed about all of these situations?
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  #7  
September 26th, 2010, 11:02 AM
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I'm am pro life, but can certainly understand why some women choose to have abortions. Never being in their situation, I find it hard to judge them. I used to throw the word, 'disgusting' around alot when it came to abortions, but that was before I started doing some research and listening to womens abortion stories. I'm sure it wasn't easy on them to make that decision but at the same time I'm sure they made the right decision FOR THEM.

For me, I wouldn't abort a child with spina bifida but maybe I'm able to handle more than they can. I don't know. It's sad
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  #8  
September 26th, 2010, 02:30 PM
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I 'get' the knee-jerk reaction to one having an abortion due to an adverse prenatal diagnosis. I understand it because I feel it at times, too. I'm very much pro-choice (used to be a fervent pro-life advocate). But I can not dictate how another should approach the situation or their decision. That choice belongs to the parents (or mother).
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  #9  
September 26th, 2010, 03:11 PM
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What exactly is the debate? Your assumptions that everyone who has an abortion is going to hell? Your emotionally charged words when judging others? The fact that you assume everyone believes in the same God you do? What is a good enough reason to justify abortion? What is the point of your post, besides ruffling feathers and preaching? I think if you wanted to vent, you should have posted somewhere else. I can only speak for myself, but I don't think your judgments are wanted here.
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  #10  
September 26th, 2010, 04:04 PM
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It makes me really sad that people judge others because THEY could go through with a situation, so that must mean EVERYONE can! And those that don't, are just horrible killers, right? Such BS.

For someone to hold their head so high and consider themselves so moral and above others, you sure do judge a lot. That's sad.

I will say that I love, love, love kids with special needs. I'm a special education minor for a reason. Having said that, working in a severe needs school where the kids are one step away from a residential facility... those parents go through more than I ever could. I am not ashamed to say that there would be no way in hell I could do the things some of the parents did, and if found out about their conditions early enough, I would abort. Judge me all you want if you wish... but you have never stepped in another persons shoes to judge them like that. Not all people have that tough shell you may have. To go through with a pregnancy with a child that would require 120% of my time and attention would hurt the children I already have. To go through with a pregnancy when I couldn't financially take care of the needs of that child would be irresponsible. You don't know how that person probably struggled with that decision, what their real reasons were, what their feelings were... nothing. All you know is what YOU would do, and that's not fair to others that don't share the same brain and life experience as you, therefore enabling them to take care of a child with spina bifida as you could.

I'd listen to your own "judgment day" advice and learn not to judge others, ya know?
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  #11  
September 26th, 2010, 06:04 PM
Undomesticated Housewife's Avatar Master(de)bater
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I am pro-life for the most part. I am extremely compassionate though.. to all parties involved. It is a decision often made in suffering...and I can't imagine that ANYONE makes that decision because they want to 'murder a baby'--as it's often put. From a Christian standpoint, I believe that (when Judgment Day comes) God might consider it as accidental death...if He believes that unborn life is equal to born life. I say, "if He believes," but it seems funny to me.. imagining that God would have to think about it or DECIDE what He believes. Whatever..

ANYWAY..
I have never heard of the sonographer being allowed to tell the patient anything other than "girl" or "boy." I was ALWAYS told that I would have to wait until my doctor reviewed the sonogram. The sonographer would DEFINITELY not be the one to advise ANYONE to abort. II am almost certain of that. I can't imagine a situation in which that would be appropriate. An abortionist disguising himself as a sonographer..a sonographer who reviews everything all by himself and advises the mother to abort.. I call BS. Why would he have only done it to this one woman? Why wouldnt there be major headlines about the hundreds of women tricked into aborting by a psycho disguised as a sonographer?

And God told the preacher-dad that the guy was lying about the baby not having a brain? Would the preacher-dad have told the girl if the baby really DIDN'T have a brain? Would he have said, "God says the sonographer is right. Go ahead and abort." I highly doubt that would have happened IF the story were even true.

On second though, I think everyone I know has a friend who knows this person who knows of someone who was told their baby was going to be born without a brain & was advised to abort... and that baby is always about 12-14 years old. Hmm.. maybe all the mothers of these children were using the same sonographer.. ???

Nah...

Last edited by Undomesticated Housewife; September 26th, 2010 at 06:07 PM.
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  #12  
September 26th, 2010, 07:48 PM
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I used to think like you but two things changed me. The main thing that changed me was when the test came back for our 1st child together we lost and we found out she has Trisomy 18, I wished I could of carried her long enough to bury her. The second thing was when I was diagnosed with PPCm and met a few women who had gotten pregnant on BC and was told carry the child and you both die or terminate and live to be a mother to your other child/children.
Those things changed me. To me SIN is SIN no one Sin is greater than the other and if you ask for forgiveness all is forgiven. You can't judge what this person did, you were not in her shoes.
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  #13  
September 27th, 2010, 02:55 PM
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A ultrasound technician is not an MD and therefore could not perform abortions. Doctors do not "advise" to abort but rather give the options available if the fetus is showing seriously concerning abnormalities in the ultrasound or the lab tests. If an unltrasound technician told me my child had no brain and that I should abort I would do a few things. 1. Get a second and third opinion from an actual licensed physician 2. Report the technician for stepping over the line and giving advice outside their field of expertise and 3. Definitely decide the outcome of my pregnancy using info from someone other than a minister/preacher/preist. Not sure why God wouldn't tell the mother her baby was fine but instead told some guy who had to relay it to her??

Spina Bifida does come in many forms and severity. There is a big difference between a fetus with an opening in the spinal column low down (and thus will be paralysed) and one that has an opening at the base of the skull and thus may not be compatible with life. I cringe when people generalized all disbaled people as "wonderful, great, blah blah blah." They are individuals with their own personalities and not all of them are angels. There are also children born so profoundly disabled their lives consist only of sickness, pain, suffering and misery. Not many people are mentally, psychologically, emotionally or financially equipped to deal with these situations.

So please keep your disgust to yourself. Until you are faced with an illness that could cause your child profound suffering and pain in their lifetime try not to get too comfortable in your ivory tower.
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  #14  
September 27th, 2010, 05:36 PM
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I'm going to call a big ole BS on the sonogram thing because I seriously thought of being a sonographer and they are only allowed to make reports, and NEVER advise patients of ANYTHING or they will be terminated and not allowed to practice anymore. There is a very very fine line even on what they can report. If there is "something wrong" then they are NOT supposed to say anything to ANY patient unless a doctor is able to verify it first.

Whoever told you that line was lying through their teeth.

As for the rest of the OP, I agree mostly with Lacey. I'm MOSTLY pro-life, but I am extreamly compassionate toward the situation for most people.
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  #15  
September 28th, 2010, 05:10 AM
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I will admit that I did not know that spina bifida can be life threatening but either way it is still wrong to kill the child. How can that not be wrong. I am not being judgmental either. The Bible says Thou shalt not kill. It is a commandment so it is just calling it like it is. It says he knew us before we were formed in our mothers womb. It would be hard to deal with a severely disabled child for sure, but our children are our responsibility. The thing is though, there have been cases where the sonographers have been wrong, or tests have been wrong and the child is fine, or not as bad off as they thought. We have all been the unborn, just remember that.
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  #16  
September 28th, 2010, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy10_13 View Post
I will admit that I did not know that spina bifida can be life threatening
See, it helps to be in the know about the topic you're putting up for debate.

Quote:
but either way it is still wrong to kill the child.
You're talking in Absolutes. Absolutes don't exist in this matter. No everyone sees it the way you and other pro-lifers do.

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How can that not be wrong.
Because not everyone shares your ethical/moral code?

Quote:
I am not being judgmental either.
You are. It's okay to admit it.

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The Bible says Thou shalt not kill. It is a commandment so it is just calling it like it is. It says he knew us before we were formed in our mothers womb.
Not everyone is Christian. Not everyone interprets the text the way you do. I couldn't care less what is attributed to El/Yahweh. "You shall not murder" (based on some translations, including Torah) is very different from "kill." Different context. Plus, it's a bit contradictory considering it is ordered throughout Mosaic Law to kill people for various "crimes" or "transgressions." If you look over what modern translators and scholars say, the commandment refers to Hebrews, already born Hebrews. Everyone else be d****d, including women, pregnant women and children. Are you forgetting of the atrocities and mass murders attributed to El/Yahweh?

Are you even familiar with the Jewish stance on abortion? Considering El/Yahweh is their god.

Quote:
It would be hard to deal with a severely disabled child for sure, but our children are our responsibility. The thing is though, there have been cases where the sonographers have been wrong, or tests have been wrong and the child is fine, or not as bad off as they thought. We have all been the unborn, just remember that.
It's much more common for a sonographer to miss a problem than it is to disagnose a gross anomaly that turns out to be nothing or "not as bad."
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  #17  
September 28th, 2010, 06:13 AM
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I have a brilliant idea. You don't like or support abortion? Don't have one. Problem solved. Otherwise, live and let live, mind your own business, and don't get into the business of judging our morals and lives because it doesn't get you anywhere.
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  #18  
September 28th, 2010, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Chloe'sMommy View Post
I have a brilliant idea. You don't like or support abortion? Don't have one. Problem solved. Otherwise, live and let live, mind your own business, and don't get into the business of judging our morals and lives because it doesn't get you anywhere.
A.******.Men. Seriously.

If you don't like abortions, don't get one, the answer is really simple.
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  #19  
September 28th, 2010, 08:17 AM
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Facepalm.
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  #20  
September 28th, 2010, 09:44 AM
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Jewish law does not recognize an unborn fetus as a person. UNtil the head and shoulders pass into the world there are not rights afforded in the Bible. (this is based of Torah law from the "Ten commandments* btw) There was plenty of killing in the Torah, even killing of babies and was commanded by God to show no mercy to even the infants of the enemy. When the Hebrews were commanded to kill the Canaanites they were commanded to kill every man, woman and child. So much for "Thou shalt not kill."

The problem with using the bible to justify anti abortion is that the Torah will be your undoing. When the Great Flood happened were there no pregnant women outside the ark? What about all those infants/children?
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