[Blondie6836]

Is there ANY reason, other than if the child has SEVERE defects and wouldnt live outside of the womb, or if the mother would die if she continued the pregnancy, that a woman can get an abortion as late as26 weeks??? I was absolutely shocked when I read that this is done...I had no idea...I know that partial birth abortions are banned unless it is for these reasons, but a surgical D&C done at this late in the pregnancy seems just as barbaric to me and I'm wondering if it is legal only in special circumstances, and if it isnt then *** is wrong with this country????

[LouLouMom]

As far as I can find, it's only legal like you said, when there is risk of death for the mother or when the child has severe brain damage.

[Blondie6836]

http://www.prochoiceforum.org.uk/ocrabortlaw9.asp

According to this site, abortions can be done up to 24 weeks for reasons that are not medical...Among all of the horrible things I read on this page this was probobly the worst:

"Clinic staff say the worst moments in their job is when they have to tell women that they are 'too late' for an abortion. We turn away about 100 women a year who are beyond the gestational limit. They beg and sometimes try to bribe staff. We are able to provide women with details of clinics abroad where post 24 week abortions are permitted, but this is often prohibitively expensive. "

this makes me so mad

[cbrmommy]

In NC, its illegal to perform abortions after 20 weeks gestation, although most clinics in this state refuse to perform them after 16 weeks.At 26 weeks, its considered a partial birth abortion, and are typically only done for the following reasons:
There are mental or physical health problems related to the pregnancy.
The fetus has been found to be dead, badly malformed, or suffering from a very serious genetic defect. This is often only detectable late in the second trimester.

They are also very rarely performed in late pregnancy. The most common justifications at that time are: The fetus is dead.
The fetus is alive, but continued pregnancy would place the woman's life in severe danger.
The fetus is alive, but continued pregnancy would grievously damage the woman's health and/or disable her.
The fetus is so malformed that it can never gain consciousness and will die shortly after birth. Many which fall into this category have developed a very severe form of hydrocephalus.

Partial-birth abortions only account for 1.4% of abortions performed (occurring over 21 weeks gestation).

(info from the CDC)

[Miguelsmommy]

I think abortion is a hard desition and finances stop many I would have to save 20 MONTHS to get an abortion ($1000). The fact abortion is not as easily exsesible to many makes the expence of abortion high along with wanting to be ambiguous. I think that contribuse to the 20 weeks or higher. The dangous of undetected Injury while not knowing your pregnant is high. I feel no one should judge a person who struggles with that desition,

[beck12]

Partial-birth abortions only account for 1.4% of abortions performed (occurring over 21 weeks gestation).

(info from the CDC)[/b]

Just so we're clear, if there are in fact approximately 1.3 million abortions performed annually in the U.S. - that still results in 18,200 Partial-birth abortions. No doubt some of those were medically necessary - I just don't want to diminish a number simply becasue 1.4% seems small. 18,200 seems much more a number you can actually wrap your brain around & how many that is. My link also said it was 1.7% which would be over 22,000.

"Abortions performed by dilation and extraction were estimated to account for 0.17% of all abortions in 2000."
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3500603.html

They do late term abortions here. Late term meaning up to 20 weeks. (don't quote me.. I know it's AT LEAST to 20 weeks, not sure if it's more)

I think it's absolutly inhumane and discusting. But that's jmo !

[tonyarn]

In NC, its illegal to perform abortions after 20 weeks gestation, although most clinics in this state refuse to perform them after 16 weeks.At 26 weeks, its considered a partial birth abortion, and are typically only done for the following reasons:
There are mental or physical health problems related to the pregnancy.
The fetus has been found to be dead, badly malformed, or suffering from a very serious genetic defect. This is often only detectable late in the second trimester.

They are also very rarely performed in late pregnancy. The most common justifications at that time are: The fetus is dead. This would be a stillbirth, not a partial birth abortion. Taking into account some stats a later poster posted, still birth could not be included in the 1.4% of abortions performed because there are an estimated 26,800 stillbirths in the United States alone every year.
The fetus is alive, but continued pregnancy would place the woman's life in severe danger.
The fetus is alive, but continued pregnancy would grievously damage the woman's health and/or disable her.
The fetus is so malformed that it can never gain consciousness and will die shortly after birth. Many which fall into this category have developed a very severe form of hydrocephalus.

Partial-birth abortions only account for 1.4% of abortions performed (occurring over 21 weeks gestation).

(info from the CDC)[/b]

I might also add that to deliver my stillborn son, I did not have a D and C, but actually labored and delivered him.

[Blondie6836]

A "serious genetic defect" can be something like Downs Syndrome...is that any reason to perform a partial birth abortion? True, kids with DS can be severely disabled and hard to care for, but they are also very loving and can lead full and happy lives. My aunt adopted 2 kids with DS, and a child with severe cerebral palsey and brain damage (her mother was a drug addict) and they are so loved by her...there are alot of people out there like my aunt who primaraly adopt special needs kids, so I just dont see the rationale of doing this unless there is absolutely no hope for the baby, if it is essentially dead or brain dead, or if the mother would die if she continued the pregnancy- and even at that point, if the mother cant continue the pregnancy and the fetus is viable, why not try to save the baby instead of cutting the skull open and sucking its brains out? Many doctors and nurses have testified that the baby is still alive and moving when they first remove it with forceps...I just dont understand why they would not even try to save it with all the advances we have made in prenatal care...I just think alot of the time this rationale is used as a blanket to cover up the REAL reason alot of these procedures are performed:The woman waits too long or changes her mind...I think any abortion done after the first trimester is just absolutely barbaric unless its medically necessary, and doing it because a child is handicapped puts us on the same level as the Nazis.

A "serious genetic defect" can be something like Downs Syndrome...is that any reason to perform a partial birth abortion? True, kids with DS can be severely disabled and hard to care for, but they are also very loving and can lead full and happy lives. My aunt adopted 2 kids with DS, and a child with severe cerebral palsey and brain damage (her mother was a drug addict) and they are so loved by her...there are alot of people out there like my aunt who primaraly adopt special needs kids, so I just dont see the rationale of doing this unless there is absolutely no hope for the baby, if it is essentially dead or brain dead, or if the mother would die if she continued the pregnancy- and even at that point, if the mother cant continue the pregnancy and the fetus is viable, why not try to save the baby instead of cutting the skull open and sucking its brains out? Many doctors and nurses have testified that the baby is still alive and moving when they first remove it with forceps...I just dont understand why they would not even try to save it with all the advances we have made in prenatal care...I just think alot of the time this rationale is used as a blanket to cover up the REAL reason alot of these procedures are performed:The woman waits too long or changes her mind...I think any abortion done after the first trimester is just absolutely barbaric unless its medically necessary, and doing it because a child is handicapped puts us on the same level as the Nazis.[/b]

ITA agree with everything you have said .

It's not right to kill a human just because he or she is not "perfect" .

A "serious genetic defect" can be something like Downs Syndrome...is that any reason to perform a partial birth abortion? True, kids with DS can be severely disabled and hard to care for, but they are also very loving and can lead full and happy lives. My aunt adopted 2 kids with DS, and a child with severe cerebral palsey and brain damage (her mother was a drug addict) and they are so loved by her...there are alot of people out there like my aunt who primaraly adopt special needs kids, so I just dont see the rationale of doing this unless there is absolutely no hope for the baby, if it is essentially dead or brain dead, or if the mother would die if she continued the pregnancy- and even at that point, if the mother cant continue the pregnancy and the fetus is viable, why not try to save the baby instead of cutting the skull open and sucking its brains out? Many doctors and nurses have testified that the baby is still alive and moving when they first remove it with forceps...I just dont understand why they would not even try to save it with all the advances we have made in prenatal care...I just think alot of the time this rationale is used as a blanket to cover up the REAL reason alot of these procedures are performed:The woman waits too long or changes her mind...I think any abortion done after the first trimester is just absolutely barbaric unless its medically necessary, and doing it because a child is handicapped puts us on the same level as the Nazis.[/b]

I feel using the group Nazi's is really inappropriate.

[Blondie6836]

[/quote]

I feel using the group Nazi's is really inappropriate.
[/quote]

How is it innapropriate? Nazis had an ideal of a pure Aryan race, and they believed that "imperfect" human beings did not have a right to live...among the other groups they massacred, they killed anyone who was mentally or physically handicapped. How is killing a baby at 26 weeks gestation, a baby that is alive and fully formed, any different than killing a full grown handicapped person? I dont see the difference there, and therefore I think that the two can be compared.

I feel using the group Nazi's is really inappropriate.
[/quote]

How is it innapropriate? Nazis had an ideal of a pure Aryan race, and they believed that "imperfect" human beings did not have a right to live...among the other groups they massacred, they killed anyone who was mentally or physically handicapped. How is killing a baby at 26 weeks gestation, a baby that is alive and fully formed, any different than killing a full grown handicapped person? I dont see the difference there, and therefore I think that the two can be compared.
[/quote]

I feel the same !
The 2 are very comparible in my eyes .

Nazis had an ideal of a pure Aryan race, and they believed that "imperfect" human beings did not have a right to live...among the other groups they massacred, they killed anyone who was mentally or physically handicapped. How is killing a baby at 26 weeks gestation, a baby that is alive and fully formed, any different than killing a full grown handicapped person?[/b]

Many of these types of abortions are done with a doctor that agree the baby is SEVERELY handicapped.. If you read back through these old threads, you'll find story after story showing how hard this was on the family to come to this painful decision. The comparision is inappropriate because Hiltler's idea of anyone but the Aryan race was inferior, these families wanted these babies but had to come to the decision to abort.

[Blondie6836]

Many of these types of abortions are done with a doctor that agree the baby is SEVERELY handicapped.. If you read back through these old threads, you'll find story after story showing how hard this was on the family to come to this painful decision. The comparision is inappropriate because Hiltler's idea of anyone but the Aryan race was inferior, these families wanted these babies but had to come to the decision to abort.
[/b]

I guess I should have been more clear...I am not saying it is on the same level in every sense. I was comparing one facet, not the Nazi idealogy as a whole...its the idea behind the Nazi idealogy that those who are imperfect do not deserve to live...In cases where the baby is severly handicapped and would have a life of suffering, I understand why a parent would do that, and I could not even imagine how aweful that must be. But where do you draw the line? I was referring more to cases where the child has Downs Syndrome, or some other defect like that...yes it is devestating to hear that your child is not perfect but I dont think that should be a reason to abort

[wifey2kevin]

blondie and britanie....i TOTALLY agree with everything that you are saying. the problem is that most people on this board don't think that the, what we call a baby, is actually a baby. it has been siad in past threads that the child is not actually a child until it breathes on its own. of course you and i don't think that, but thats how a lot of people justify abortion. i've debated on this board for a while, and can't quite get that point across no matter how many scientific fact, etc. sad, but true!!!

blondie and britanie....i TOTALLY agree with everything that you are saying. the problem is that most people on this board don't think that the, what we call a baby, is actually a baby. it has been siad in past threads that the child is not actually a child until it breathes on its own. of course you and i don't think that, but thats how a lot of people justify abortion. i've debated on this board for a while, and can't quite get that point across no matter how many scientific fact, etc. sad, but true!!![/b]

I believe it to be a baby so I don't understand where you're coming from. I know we've all disagreed about viablity in the past if that's what you're misinterpreting?

blondie and britanie....i TOTALLY agree with everything that you are saying. the problem is that most people on this board don't think that the, what we call a baby, is actually a baby. it has been siad in past threads that the child is not actually a child until it breathes on its own. of course you and i don't think that, but thats how a lot of people justify abortion. i've debated on this board for a while, and can't quite get that point across no matter how many scientific fact, etc. sad, but true!!![/b]

I've also said that it's a baby.

When I was pregnant I referred to my son as a baby my entire pregnancy, so I have no idea where you're going with this.

It's just that we recognize what CHOICE is. You do not.

[Boxerlove1]

As with any situation, it's easy to judge when you haven't been faced with the prospect of giving birth to one of these children, some of who cannot/willnot survive outside the womb.

[Blondie6836]

As with any situation, it's easy to judge when you haven't been faced with the prospect of giving birth to one of these children, some of who cannot/willnot survive outside the womb.[/b]

I was talking about kids with defects where there is a chance the child or children could survive...For instance there was a show i was watching about conjoined twins...the parents got an U/S at about 7 months and it showed the girls were conjoined...they were shocked when the doctor suggested they abort, the mom said something along the lines of "I would never take away my childrens chance of life". They had healthy baby girls who were later succesfully seperated.
It is a hard descision b/c there have been alot of cases where parents have been told their child has had 2 weeks to live and the child has ended up living a full and healthy life...so if that is the case I just dont personally understand how you wouldnt give your baby a chance? Doctors are humans too, they can misdiagnose, and its even harder to diagnose before the baby is even born. If it ends up dying anyways, of course that is an aweful and tragic thing to go through, but at least you could be at peace knowing that everything that could be done was done. However I do not pass judgement on any mother who makes the descision to abort in this case, and my heart goes out to them...I cant even imagine how aweful that must be