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Abortion Debate

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  #21  
May 13th, 2011, 04:36 PM
Quantum_Leap's Avatar frequent flier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2Froggy View Post
It's not my body. Not my choice.
But if you're the caregiver for a 12-year-old, you make other decisions about her body on a daily basis. Her body is rarely, if ever, 'hers' entirely. You decide when she eats and what to feed her. You decide when she sleeps. You decide that she needs to brush her teeth, even if she doesn't want to. etc. etc. And, of course, like in the example Margaret gave, if she decides that she doesn't want braces (or doesn't want some other medical procedure performed), you get to override that, too. Our bodies are NOT really our own until we reach legal adulthood, which, in this country, comes long after childbearing age.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K.A.T View Post
I see that differently. I cannot see how a 5 year old can carry to term and then deliver a baby safely. So I would view it as a medically necessary abortion.
She did, though. She's still alive, and her son died at the age of 40.
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  #22  
May 13th, 2011, 05:02 PM
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Yes, SHE did and is still alive. But do you really believe that ALL 5 year old little girls are capable one getting pregnant and two actually surviving safely? What one 5 year old miraculously, IMO, survived back in 1938 (I believe that's what I recall reading) does not mean that all 5 year old little girls can endure what she did. This child was obviously not the normal 5 year old girl. Even with her being able to conceive, she was not able to deliver and had to have a c-sec. Had she not been able to have a c-sec, she and her son most likely would have died.
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  #23  
May 13th, 2011, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDG View Post
I think this is a very interesting question. I would guess people are reluctant to say they would force their daughter to have an abortion because they know it isn't the same as any other medical decision. Not responding to anybody in particular but it seems people want it both ways - they want to be able to say itsn't yet a real human being growing inside the 12 year old but that the same time they see something morally wrong with forcing an abortion on someone. Why?
I agree with you completely, and that was kind of my point. Pregnancy in early adolescence can be extremely dangerous for both the mother and the baby:

Quote:
The mortality rate for the mother, although low, is twice that for adult pregnant women
Adolescent Pregnancy: Current Trends and Issues

I can't see most mothers on here allowing their young daughters to refuse treatment for any other medical condition if the risks were significant and treatment would easily reduce those risks. Never mind 'my body, my choice' -- they'd intervene and do what was safe for their daughters. So, there must be some unacknowledged difference between abortion and comparable medical procedures that accounts for the different reactions. The most obvious difference I can think of is that abortion actually involves two lives and not just one. Otherwise, why should it have the emotional ramifications that it does?
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  #24  
May 15th, 2011, 12:09 PM
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We are well aware an abortion is two lives or one life and a potential life. No one ever argues that. What we argue is it's not two people.

Unless you've had an abortion (like me) you cannot fathom the emotions that come with it. Even people who seriously did not want the child can have major emotional termoil about it. Maybe not the day of, or the day after, but it can happen. I watched a friend in high school crumble on her EDD because she finally regretted it.

The point is, are you willing to risk that emotional turmoil with your child?

Knowing what I lived with, no, I would not be. I would rather raise the baby myself than let my child hate herself for life because she "had" to have an abortion because she was young.

If my child wanted an abortion, I'd book the appointment for her. Then I would have her visit abortion support groups prior to having the appointment and listen to how the women feel afterwards, and let her decide if she wants to keep the appointment. You have until they dilate your cervix to change your mind, after that, the choice is no longer in your control.
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  #25  
May 15th, 2011, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Tithen~ View Post
We are well aware an abortion is two lives or one life and a potential life. No one ever argues that. What we argue is it's not two people.

Unless you've had an abortion (like me) you cannot fathom the emotions that come with it. Even people who seriously did not want the child can have major emotional termoil about it. Maybe not the day of, or the day after, but it can happen. I watched a friend in high school crumble on her EDD because she finally regretted it.

The point is, are you willing to risk that emotional turmoil with your child?

Knowing what I lived with, no, I would not be. I would rather raise the baby myself than let my child hate herself for life because she "had" to have an abortion because she was young.

If my child wanted an abortion, I'd book the appointment for her. Then I would have her visit abortion support groups prior to having the appointment and listen to how the women feel afterwards, and let her decide if she wants to keep the appointment. You have until they dilate your cervix to change your mind, after that, the choice is no longer in your control.

This. Agreed on all points.

I may make medical decisions for my child, but the fact remains that this is a medical decision I WOULD NOT make for my child. If that means my 13 year old wants to keep her pregnancy, so be it. I will not force her to make a decision that can absolutely kill her emotionally because I felt she should make a different choice. It simply is NOT my choice. My Mom absolutely refused to tell me what she wanted me to do until after I had my daughter. She wanted me to keep her, but said she would have supported me had I chosen an abortion. It simply was not her choice to make. When it comes to pregnancy, I absolutely will not make that choice for my child. I respect her more than that than to force her to make a decision that was all on my own making.
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  #26  
May 30th, 2011, 04:30 AM
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I would not force my daughter but I have a few questions:

1) Is it even legal to force an abortion on an unwilling female of childbearing age?

2) I'm confused how this is an issue here. If you're pro-life, you're pro-life. If you're pro-choice, how could you force your choice on someone else? I know it's not just any someone else, but the idea of a pro-choicer forcing their choice on someone else seems silly to me. Pro-choicers get livid when pro-lifers tell them that it should be illegal to get an abortion because it forces them to not have a choice, I can't see anyone with those beliefs honestly forcing another INTO an abortion...


Also, when your body matures enough for you to be pregnant, it is not medically necessary to get an abortion like the child is an appendix about to poison the body... If you are healthy with no medical issues and can become pregnant, you can handle pregnancy. That's why your body starts dropping eggs. It's not doing it just to get rid of them...

The case of the 5 year old is a sad and strange one, but if anything it proves the side of let the older,more mature than a 5 year old girl take on the pregnancy... If a 5 year old did it in the 30's, why couldn't a girl who had hit "puberty age" do it now?


Another thing about the her body, her choice. It's definitely hard to suddenly not make the medical decisions when you have been her whole life. You're her mom and are therefore entitled to make them. Except now, she's a mom and is therefore entitled to the choice to keep that job or not. That life/baby/embryo (whatever you call it) is NOT yours to make decisions about.
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  #27  
May 30th, 2011, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tree_Love View Post
I would not force my daughter but I have a few questions:

1) Is it even legal to force an abortion on an unwilling female of childbearing age?

2) I'm confused how this is an issue here. If you're pro-life, you're pro-life. If you're pro-choice, how could you force your choice on someone else? I know it's not just any someone else, but the idea of a pro-choicer forcing their choice on someone else seems silly to me. Pro-choicers get livid when pro-lifers tell them that it should be illegal to get an abortion because it forces them to not have a choice, I can't see anyone with those beliefs honestly forcing another INTO an abortion...


Also, when your body matures enough for you to be pregnant, it is not medically necessary to get an abortion like the child is an appendix about to poison the body... If you are healthy with no medical issues and can become pregnant, you can handle pregnancy. That's why your body starts dropping eggs. It's not doing it just to get rid of them...

The case of the 5 year old is a sad and strange one, but if anything it proves the side of let the older,more mature than a 5 year old girl take on the pregnancy... If a 5 year old did it in the 30's, why couldn't a girl who had hit "puberty age" do it now?


Another thing about the her body, her choice. It's definitely hard to suddenly not make the medical decisions when you have been her whole life. You're her mom and are therefore entitled to make them. Except now, she's a mom and is therefore entitled to the choice to keep that job or not. That life/baby/embryo (whatever you call it) is NOT yours to make decisions about.
While I do agree with most of what you say, a 12 year old cannot support a baby. A-she needs to be in school B-medical care is expensive C- she cannot work to pay for squat. She may have the baby, but if her parents, or a relative aren't willing to help in the raising of the child, her options are pretty much limited to adoption or abortion. I'm pretty sure with out a family member there, the 12 year old couldn't even check out of the hospital (can't where I grew up)
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  #28  
June 4th, 2011, 08:42 PM
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I was actually in this situation at age 13, and as soon as my family found out, their first words were 'can we get rid of it?'. I had no choice in the matter and was forced to put the baby for adoption.

The situation occurred because of sexual abuse. I would say that I felt a lot of regret at the time but am glad I was able to finish school and have three years of a mostly normal high school experience. I was not mature enough at the time to make the decision and if a similar situation happened with my daughter, I'd talk to a counselor before making any decisions. Counselors are trained to deal with these kind of things and depending on my daughter, I would try to make the best decision and let her be a part of it. It's a very adult situation for someone who isn't even close to being mature.
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  #29  
June 7th, 2011, 11:33 AM
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In the case of medical pediatrics, a child moves from place where they cannot give consent for medical procedures and are completely reliant upon their caregivers, to one where they assent for their own procedures. The age of 12 is a tough place to draw a line. Some 12 year old's may be able to give or decline consent for an abortion and some may not be developed enough to do that. Certainly, a 5 year old would not be able to give such consent, whereas a 15 year old most likely would. No good doctor today would try to force a procedure on a child just because they have not reached that age of 18. In many states, an older child can go to court to override their parents medical decisions if the parents refuses to accept the child's desires.
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  #30  
June 7th, 2011, 06:30 PM
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Some teenagers and children will go along with the wishes of their family. In my experience, I did whatever my family told me even if I didn't agree with it. I'm sure I'm not the only girl who listened to her family when she was barely in her teens.
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  #31  
June 8th, 2011, 09:26 AM
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No doubt. Parental coercion has a strong influence.
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  #33  
July 14th, 2011, 03:11 AM
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If that did happen the only thing id force would be making her get and keep a job after school up until she has the baby it wouldn't be easy on her at all and maybe all of the responsibilities i put on her will scare her into making the decision to have an abortion on her own if not then she will be forced to grow up fast.
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  #34  
July 18th, 2011, 03:09 AM
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I wouldn't force her to have an abortion. I would probably adopt the child myself. I don't think I could give up my grandchild.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Tithen~ View Post
We are well aware an abortion is two lives or one life and a potential life. No one ever argues that. What we argue is it's not two people.

Unless you've had an abortion (like me) you cannot fathom the emotions that come with it. Even people who seriously did not want the child can have major emotional termoil about it. Maybe not the day of, or the day after, but it can happen. I watched a friend in high school crumble on her EDD because she finally regretted it.

The point is, are you willing to risk that emotional turmoil with your child?

Knowing what I lived with, no, I would not be. I would rather raise the baby myself than let my child hate herself for life because she "had" to have an abortion because she was young.

If my child wanted an abortion, I'd book the appointment for her. Then I would have her visit abortion support groups prior to having the appointment and listen to how the women feel afterwards, and let her decide if she wants to keep the appointment. You have until they dilate your cervix to change your mind, after that, the choice is no longer in your control.
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  #35  
July 21st, 2011, 09:44 AM
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I would not force an abortion unless there was threat to my daughter's life.
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  #36  
December 11th, 2011, 02:28 PM
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I honestly don't know what I would do with this situation. I wouldn't force my daughter to have an abortion in anyway but I don't know if I would push the issue unless it was a rape instance.

With having two boys, I'm glad that I don't have a girl but I've always discussed the probability of my boys getting a girl pregnant and the possibility of the girls' family not wanting her to keep the baby. I couldn't put my grandchild out in the cold so I would invite her to live with us so that I could at least help her with the child and show her the right way to do things since she would be a first time mom at a young age.

This is def a difficult question to answer
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  #37  
March 25th, 2012, 03:40 AM
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I would let her decide herself. As a mother who became pregnant in her late teens, I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't. Ultimately its her body and her choice.
Teen parenting was a positive thing for me, but I know that this isn't the case for all young parents. I wouldn't force her to do anything she didn't want to. It'd be her baby, her body, and her decision.
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  #38  
April 14th, 2012, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raisininthesun View Post
I was actually in this situation at age 13, and as soon as my family found out, their first words were 'can we get rid of it?'. I had no choice in the matter and was forced to put the baby for adoption.

The situation occurred because of sexual abuse. I would say that I felt a lot of regret at the time but am glad I was able to finish school and have three years of a mostly normal high school experience. I was not mature enough at the time to make the decision and if a similar situation happened with my daughter, I'd talk to a counselor before making any decisions. Counselors are trained to deal with these kind of things and depending on my daughter, I would try to make the best decision and let her be a part of it. It's a very adult situation for someone who isn't even close to being mature.
I am very sorry to hear your story but you're very brave for telling it. So, thank you for that.

Can I ask if it was an open or closed adoption? I would guess closed
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  #39  
June 26th, 2012, 03:50 PM
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I would not allow my child to have an abortion. People have no right to decide when someone dies. I could not live with myself if I allowed my child to kill her child even if she was very young.
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  #40  
June 26th, 2012, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babyseibel View Post
I would not allow my child to have an abortion. People have no right to decide when someone dies. I could not live with myself if I allowed my child to kill her child even if she was very young.
Playing devils advocate... what if your very young daughter was raped and became pregnant. She had an extremely complicated pregnancy where she is told that if she goes on with the pregnancy she will have an extremely high likelihood of dying, as would the baby because of the trauma from birth. SO... what would you choose... both your child and grandchild dying, or abortion?
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