Log In Sign Up

What if?


Abortion Debate

This forum is for Abortion debate only. If you are highly sensitive about this topic, read at your own discretion.

Welcome to the JustMommies Message Boards.

We pride ourselves on having the friendliest and most welcoming forums for moms and moms to be! Please take a moment and register for free so you can be a part of our growing community of mothers. If you have any problems registering please drop an email to boards@justmommies.com.

Our community is moderated by our moderation team so you won't see spam or offensive messages posted on our forums. Each of our message boards is hosted by JustMommies hosts, whose names are listed at the top each board. We hope you find our message boards friendly, helpful, and fun to be on!

Reply Post New Topic
  Subscribe To Abortion Debate LinkBack Topic Tools Search this Topic Display Modes
  #1  
September 5th, 2006, 06:03 PM
Super Mommy
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Idaho
Posts: 811
Let's say, hypothetically, that women did not have to go through 9 months of pregnancy, and children were instead "grown" in a lab or something. Could you still terminate that baby's life, having to actually watch them kill the baby? Would it be different because it's not inside your body?

I don't know if this has ever been discussed, just wanted to know what everyone's opinions are. Is it easier to justify abortion because we can't actually see the "termination" happening to the baby?

Please no "well, that's not how it is, so it's a moot point" type answers.
__________________

<span style="color:#993399"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans Ms">Check out my Myspace!
[/i]
Reply With Quote
  #2  
September 5th, 2006, 06:10 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,496
Well, the debate would then become "can you force them to parent the child." "can you force her to go through the surgery to remove the fetus"

Our legal system does not give rights to the fetus, and this is not because it resides in the mother (although that plays a part.) I do not think the legal status of the fetus would change if it were possible to grow it elsewhere.

I do not beileve we can force them to parent the child or go through surgery.

I also would not want the consequences of hundred of thousands of test tube babies with no families who will probably live their life in the system (and the system is a scarey place depending on where you look).

ETA: I was looking at the what if in a laboratory part of the question and not the seeing part here, apologies for confusion. I just don't see how one could "see" without forcing things on the mother.
__________________
taking jm breaks if you don't see me around much
Reply With Quote
  #3  
September 5th, 2006, 06:21 PM
Super Mommy
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Idaho
Posts: 811
You can't make anyone parent a baby. What does that have to do with the question I asked?

My point was, is it easier to justify abortion because we can't actually see our baby being "terminated"? If our stomachs were see through, would you still be able to go through with it? Watching the baby's movements, then watching the machine that grinds them up or whatever it does (I can't even imagine how they do it).
__________________

<span style="color:#993399"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans Ms">Check out my Myspace!
[/i]
Reply With Quote
  #4  
September 5th, 2006, 06:27 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,496
The bit about parenting was quite relevant. If you are making abortion illegal via extraction of the fetus and laboratory gestation, then you either A) force the parents who made said child to parent it or B ) put child in the system (both of which I commented on).

ABortion can't be looked at independent of the other variables.

If you wanted to know what I would think about "seeing"...well, we can already see abortion. There are videas and ultrasounds and whatnot. If one wanted to see abortion, they easily could.

ETA: I would also be against forcing people to watch. (because I am not sure whatr you are asking here) Is the "what if" what if you could see? or "what if the baby was grown outside and you had to watch?"
__________________
taking jm breaks if you don't see me around much
Reply With Quote
  #5  
September 5th, 2006, 06:31 PM
Super Mommy
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Idaho
Posts: 811
Again, my point is.....

Is abortion easier to justify because you don't have to see what is being done to your baby? All you know is it hurts really bad. You don't have to deal with the full comprehension of what is going on to YOUR baby.
__________________

<span style="color:#993399"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans Ms">Check out my Myspace!
[/i]
Reply With Quote
  #6  
September 5th, 2006, 06:36 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,496
Quote:
Again, my point is.....

Is abortion easier to justify because you don't have to see what is being done to your baby? All you know is it hurts really bad. You don't have to deal with the full comprehension of what is going on to YOUR baby.[/b]
Where do you get the idea that they don't know what is going on to the fetus? All they know is that it hurts really bad?

I think that's boiling it down a bit much.
__________________
taking jm breaks if you don't see me around much
Reply With Quote
  #7  
September 5th, 2006, 08:11 PM
mrobinson
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Is abortion easier to justify because you don't have to see what is being done to your baby?[/b]
Do you mean you believe most people don't understand visually what is happening to fetus?

Quote:
All you know is it hurts really bad.[/b]
I don't think I would underestimate what people knowledge of abortion is.

Quote:
You don't have to deal with the full comprehension of what is going on to YOUR baby.[/b]
Again, are you implying that women who have abortions don't understand the process?

Quote:
I'm confused. Is the unborn baby the problem? Maybe we need to stop looking at babies as problems.

When I was pregnant at 17, there was only one person that told me congratulations. That was the nicest thing that anyone could have said to me. I make sure to say it to every girl that gets pregnant by accident.[/b]

I think it's really sweet how pro-life your views are.. You were an 18 year old mom, eh? I think it's great you kept your baby.

I know this might be hard to understand but to some people a unplanned pregnancy is a problem.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
September 5th, 2006, 08:26 PM
kadydid
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Let's say, hypothetically, that women did not have to go through 9 months of pregnancy, and children were instead "grown" in a lab or something. Could you still terminate that baby's life, having to actually watch them kill the baby? Would it be different because it's not inside your body?

I don't know if this has ever been discussed, just wanted to know what everyone's opinions are. Is it easier to justify abortion because we can't actually see the "termination" happening to the baby?

Please no "well, that's not how it is, so it's a moot point" type answers.[/b]
Well if they were grown in a lab, there really wouldn't be any unwanted babies And if there was something wrong with the baby, they could just stop supporting the baby via the "tube" (or whatever is supporting the fetus). There really wouldn't be any real need for abortions.

OT- I see you're also a big fan of the "what if's"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
September 5th, 2006, 09:38 PM
irishxrose
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Again, my point is.....

Is abortion easier to justify because you don't have to see what is being done to your baby? All you know is it hurts really bad. You don't have to deal with the full comprehension of what is going on to YOUR baby.[/b]
Women have a much bigger understanding of abortion than you say they do. They DO have a full comprehension of what is happening to THEIR baby; and for you to say otherwise is insulting. If I was pregnant right now, I'd get an abortion. I understand the process, I understand what's happening. But I also know that I can't afford another child, and I don't want to see my family on the streets. My child who is already here on earth is more important to me.

Anyways, I agree with everything Isabellamom said.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
September 6th, 2006, 01:36 AM
glasscandie's Avatar What I make is what I am
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near Washington, DC
Posts: 15,982
Send a message via AIM to glasscandie Send a message via Yahoo to glasscandie
I think I sort of get what you're saying...is the visual (i.e. watching a hypothetical tube baby starve to death, or drown to death b/c there was no oxygen) the deterent(sp) or would women get an abortion anyway? Is it true that "out of sight is out of mind"? Not that people who get abortions don't think about their aborted child, but it somehow makes it easier to abort b/c they can't SEE them abort him or her?
__________________
I predict a riot.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
September 6th, 2006, 08:23 AM
mrobinson
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
I think I sort of get what you're saying...is the visual (i.e. watching a hypothetical tube baby starve to death, or drown to death b/c there was no oxygen) the deterent(sp) or would women get an abortion anyway? Is it true that "out of sight is out of mind"? Not that people who get abortions don't think about their aborted child, but it somehow makes it easier to abort b/c they can't SEE them abort him or her?[/b]
I think that's what she meant too.. but I think she degraded the intelligence of the women getting abortions.. Watching it on a big screen tv getting sucked out the tube might be a great scare tactic ~ you know being forced to watch.. but I'm sure there are lots of people who would want to tape it too.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
September 6th, 2006, 09:02 AM
Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 751
I think there's something to be said for having some (not saying you need to be an expert) but even the littlest bit of knowledge on a subject before you debate it because the question becomes irrelevant since we can already see what's being done during an abortion. I think Isabella's mom was having trouble understanding your question because it wasn't quite logical to those of us who do have extensive knowledge in abortion procedure(s). For example, this statement:

Quote:
Watching the baby's movements, then watching the machine that grinds them up or whatever it does (I can't even imagine how they do it).[/b]
Well, they're not "ground up" but we can watch movement and we can watch the extraction of the fetus.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
September 6th, 2006, 05:16 PM
Super Mommy
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Idaho
Posts: 811
I was 19 when I had an abortion, and I did not have a complete understanding of what was happening to my baby. I just knew it hurt REALLY bad!!! I doubt very many women have ever seen an abortion taking place.

I used to be extremely pro-choice, so I'm not naive. I went from one end of the extreme of the spectrum to the other.

It's just something to think about-could you watch your baby being aborted? Knowing what is happening and having to actually watch it are two different things. I couldn't watch it-it would tear me apart.

I know that when I put it out of my mind and just thought about how much easier my life would be without a second child (I was 17 with my first), it made it much easier. I don't know if I would have done it if I would have been able to see what was happening.

I am not trying to insult anyone's intelligence, I just wanted to raise a point. Sometimes the what if's and hypotheticals help us to explore a subject from a different angle. At least it does for me.
__________________

<span style="color:#993399"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans Ms">Check out my Myspace!
[/i]
Reply With Quote
  #14  
September 6th, 2006, 10:26 PM
glasscandie's Avatar What I make is what I am
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near Washington, DC
Posts: 15,982
Send a message via AIM to glasscandie Send a message via Yahoo to glasscandie
Wait, while people are getting abortions it's actually live, on a TV screen in the room or something?!
__________________
I predict a riot.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
September 7th, 2006, 06:56 AM
Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 751
No, I'm sorry. Maybe I didn't state that right. You are not actually watching your abortion. (Most women choose to be put to sleep, you can also choose twilight, but then you're still not watching inside your body).

What I meant was that there is access to information and pictures, videos etc. explaining and showing the different types of abortions. So, if a woman chooses to educate herself on the abortion process she can see what happens. I didnt' mean that she would watch her own abortion, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Quote:
I was 19 when I had an abortion, and I did not have a complete understanding of what was happening to my baby. I just knew it hurt REALLY bad!!! I doubt very many women have ever seen an abortion taking place.[/b]
I also had an abortion at a very young age with no knowledge whatsoever of what was actually done. And I know my choice would have been diff. had I known about the process, gov't help etc.

I do agree with you that actually seeing your own abortion take place would make it an extremely difficult decision for many women, well maybe I shouldn't speak for others, but it would have deterred me.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
September 7th, 2006, 10:07 AM
mrobinson
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Quote:
I was 19 when I had an abortion, and I did not have a complete understanding of what was happening to my baby. I just knew it hurt REALLY bad!!! I doubt very many women have ever seen an abortion taking place.[/b]
I also had an abortion at a very young age with no knowledge whatsoever of what was actually done. And I know my choice would have been diff. had I known about the process, gov't help etc.

I do agree with you that actually seeing your own abortion take place would make it an extremely difficult decision for many women, well maybe I shouldn't speak for others, but it would have deterred me.
[/b][/quote]

Quite frankly Gracie, as pro-choice as I feel, I do think there is a lack of education, options and counselling to women who have had abortions.. I think that's why so many ex-users are pro-life. I feel strongly there should be more done in the screening.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
September 7th, 2006, 10:16 AM
Super Mommy
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Idaho
Posts: 811
I agree! For so long, I did not understand how developed a baby was early on. I thought it was just a bunch of cells and not really that formed. How many women have changed their mind when shown an ultrasound of their baby with the heart beating and arms and legs already forming? If you can't watch an ultrasound of your child before going through with it, then you shouldn't even have the option. (I don't think abortion should be legal, but since it is, they should at least show every woman an ultrasound before she goes through with it) IMHO!!
__________________

<span style="color:#993399"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans Ms">Check out my Myspace!
[/i]
Reply With Quote
  #18  
September 7th, 2006, 10:32 AM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,496
Quote:
If you can't watch an ultrasound of your child before going through with it, then you shouldn't even have the option.[/b]
Why?
__________________
taking jm breaks if you don't see me around much
Reply With Quote
  #19  
September 7th, 2006, 10:53 AM
Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 751
Quote:
Quite frankly Gracie, as pro-choice as I feel, I do think there is a lack of education, options and counselling to women who have had abortions.. I think that's why so many ex-users are pro-life. I feel strongly there should be more done in the screening.[/b]
Hmm, I agree completely. Where did you get that I didn't? Remember the thread a while back about educating women on abortion so they can make informed decisions? I said that there should be mandatory counseling, 24 hr. wait period, education etc. or something along those lines.

I know that I and many women I talked to were grossly uneducated on women's health in general let alone abortion.

I stated that there is access to education, whether women can find it...that's another story

I also agreed that seeing the actual abortion performed would make a diff. at least in my opinion.

Does that clear it up?

Quote:
What I meant was that there is access to information and pictures, videos etc. explaining and showing the different types of abortions. So, if a woman chooses to educate herself on the abortion process she can see what happens. I didnt' mean that she would watch her own abortion, sorry for the misunderstanding.[/b]
Oh, I just realized you probably got it from that quote. And let me reiterate that I completely agree that the lack pre-abortion education is terrible, but I still stand firm that if you really want to find out you can....I just didn't do the research when I was younger, as I assume most young women wouldn't. So, the industry is still doing women an injustice by not providing more in-your-face education on this.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
September 7th, 2006, 10:59 AM
mrobinson
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Quote:
Quite frankly Gracie, as pro-choice as I feel, I do think there is a lack of education, options and counselling to women who have had abortions.. I think that's why so many ex-users are pro-life. I feel strongly there should be more done in the screening.[/b]
Hmm, I agree completely. Where did you get that I didn't? Remember the thread a while back about educating women on abortion so they can make informed decisions? I said that there should be mandatory counseling, 24 hr. wait period, education etc. or something along those lines.

I know that I and many women I talked to were grossly uneducated on women's health in general let alone abortion.

I stated that this information is available, by no means am I saying women know how to access it and I find that a huge problem.

I also agreed that seeing the actual abortion performed would make a diff. at least in my opinion.

Does that clear it up?
[/b][/quote]
I thought I was agreeing with you.. does that clear it up?

Quote:
let me reiterate that I completely agree that the lack pre-abortion education is terrible, but I still stand firm that if you really want to find out you can....I just didn't do the research when I was younger, as I assume most young women wouldn't. So, the industry is still doing women an injustice by not providing more in-your-face education on this.[/b]
Reply With Quote
Reply

Topic Tools Search this Topic
Search this Topic:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:50 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0