Log In Sign Up

A mother and an unborn baby are both a life.What makes an unborn life of less worth?


Abortion Debate

This forum is for Abortion debate only. If you are highly sensitive about this topic, read at your own discretion.

Welcome to the JustMommies Message Boards.

We pride ourselves on having the friendliest and most welcoming forums for moms and moms to be! Please take a moment and register for free so you can be a part of our growing community of mothers. If you have any problems registering please drop an email to boards@justmommies.com.

Our community is moderated by our moderation team so you won't see spam or offensive messages posted on our forums. Each of our message boards is hosted by JustMommies hosts, whose names are listed at the top each board. We hope you find our message boards friendly, helpful, and fun to be on!

Reply Post New Topic
  Subscribe To Abortion Debate LinkBack Topic Tools Search this Topic Display Modes
  #1  
September 8th, 2006, 05:55 AM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 1,670
It doesn't matter if a person is an unborn or an adult, they are both a life and they should both have equal rights. Why would some people think otherwise? I don't understand.We all were in the unborn state and a developing human is still a human whether they can survive outside of the uterus or not .They are alive while inside of the uterus.
__________________
url=http://www.i-am-pregnant.com/1403420400][/url]
Reply With Quote
  #2  
September 8th, 2006, 06:23 AM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,496
There are a lot of theories on when life begins (that is to say , when the embryo, fetus, etc become a human life). I don't see why your theory should be the accepted one.

For example, some people believe that it is sentience that makes a human human; it is the characteristic that sets the human apart. There are different stances on sentience; some people say it could start in the end of the second trimester based on the presence of brain activity. Some say it doesn't begin until late in the third trimester. There are still others who say it doesn't begin until after birth.

Others look and say that life is not truly begun until implantation or viability or when the embryo reaches a certain number of divisions and can not longer split into a twin.

When the courts looked at this question, they came to the conclusion that they could not answer the question: "when does life begin?"

So they decided to give the fetus more consideration the closer it got to full development.

Being "alive" and being a human life are two very different things. Each and every cell in your body is alive, but individually they are not a human life, for example.
__________________
taking jm breaks if you don't see me around much
Reply With Quote
  #3  
September 8th, 2006, 07:53 AM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 1,670
what about when people say,"my body, my choice" well, what about your baby's body? Why should you be allowed to vacuum out or rip apart an unborn baby's body?
__________________
url=http://www.i-am-pregnant.com/1403420400][/url]
Reply With Quote
  #4  
September 8th, 2006, 10:17 AM
Cereal Killer's Avatar I'm climbin' in yo window
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: next to Chuck Norris
Posts: 7,373
Well, since turnabout is fairplay, as the saying goes.....

What makes the life of the mother less valuable than that of an unborn fetus? It is simply your opinion that a fetus is a life, there is no scientific proof or universal agreement on when life begins. Sperm is alive, but we are not trying to ban masturbation or spermicide. Eggs are alive, but there is no way to eliminate menstration. Trees are alive, yet I do not value their existance above mine.

Until there is PROOF that life begins at point X in conceptio through birth, then your argument is based solely on opinion, and you have nothing to back up your point because your opinion is just as unproven and biased as anyone elses.
__________________
Wife, Mother of 4, Homeschooling, and wine drinking.


Reply With Quote
  #5  
September 8th, 2006, 12:06 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 1,670
Quote:
Well, since turnabout is fairplay, as the saying goes.....

What makes the life of the mother less valuable than that of an unborn fetus? It is simply your opinion that a fetus is a life, there is no scientific proof or universal agreement on when life begins. Sperm is alive, but we are not trying to ban masturbation or spermicide. Eggs are alive, but there is no way to eliminate menstration. Trees are alive, yet I do not value their existance above mine.

Until there is PROOF that life begins at point X in conceptio through birth, then your argument is based solely on opinion, and you have nothing to back up your point because your opinion is just as unproven and biased as anyone elses.[/b]
We shouldn't compare a human life to other kinds of life because human life is the most valuable kind of life. So, when my unborn daughter was kicking and moving around inside of me, she still was not a life?? Huh? anyways..abortion is murder, no candy coating it and an unborn baby is just that.. a BABY in the developing stages.
__________________
url=http://www.i-am-pregnant.com/1403420400][/url]
Reply With Quote
  #7  
September 8th, 2006, 12:10 PM
irishxrose
Guest
Posts: n/a
I love how the life that's already here on earth doesn't even matter.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
September 8th, 2006, 12:40 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar I'm climbin' in yo window
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: next to Chuck Norris
Posts: 7,373
Quote:
Quote:
Well, since turnabout is fairplay, as the saying goes.....

What makes the life of the mother less valuable than that of an unborn fetus? It is simply your opinion that a fetus is a life, there is no scientific proof or universal agreement on when life begins. Sperm is alive, but we are not trying to ban masturbation or spermicide. Eggs are alive, but there is no way to eliminate menstration. Trees are alive, yet I do not value their existance above mine.

Until there is PROOF that life begins at point X in conceptio through birth, then your argument is based solely on opinion, and you have nothing to back up your point because your opinion is just as unproven and biased as anyone elses.[/b]
We shouldn't compare a human life to other kinds of life because human life is the most valuable kind of life. So, when my unborn daughter was kicking and moving around inside of me, she still was not a life?? Huh? anyways..abortion is murder, no candy coating it and an unborn baby is just that.. a BABY in the developing stages.
[/b]
But which is more valuable? The fetus or the mother? It is your opinion, point blank! A cluster of cells, an embryo and a fetus are not--in the eyes of the law, as well as many people--considered a life, at least not one to be placed in regard above the mother, a fully developed life. It is strictly your own opinion that leads you to believe when life begins, there is nothing tangible to back it up. A beating heart does not give an embryo or a fetus the ability to live outside the womb before a certain point, movement is just movement...science is unable to pinpoint the beginning of actual life, so why should anyone take your word for it?
Your sole purpose in these debates is not to debate but to judge. You consistently reply to these questions and answers with name calling and judgments...and what makes you better than anyone else? Unless you can unequivocally prove that you have led a faultless existance, that you are perfect and without sin or imperfection, that you have never made a mistake, then what makes you think that you can judge the lives of others whom you do not know? I hate to be cliche, but when you point the finger at someone you have 3 more pointing back at you. You should muster up a little empathy and realize that you are not better than anyone else, you can in no way know what leads every woman into making such a decision and you are in no position to judge them.
__________________
Wife, Mother of 4, Homeschooling, and wine drinking.


Reply With Quote
  #10  
September 8th, 2006, 12:44 PM
irishxrose
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Well, since turnabout is fairplay, as the saying goes.....

What makes the life of the mother less valuable than that of an unborn fetus? It is simply your opinion that a fetus is a life, there is no scientific proof or universal agreement on when life begins. Sperm is alive, but we are not trying to ban masturbation or spermicide. Eggs are alive, but there is no way to eliminate menstration. Trees are alive, yet I do not value their existance above mine.

Until there is PROOF that life begins at point X in conceptio through birth, then your argument is based solely on opinion, and you have nothing to back up your point because your opinion is just as unproven and biased as anyone elses.[/b]
We shouldn't compare a human life to other kinds of life because human life is the most valuable kind of life. So, when my unborn daughter was kicking and moving around inside of me, she still was not a life?? Huh? anyways..abortion is murder, no candy coating it and an unborn baby is just that.. a BABY in the developing stages.
[/b]
But which is more valuable? The fetus or the mother? It is your opinion, point blank! A cluster of cells, an embryo and a fetus are not--in the eyes of the law, as well as many people--considered a life, at least not one to be placed in regard above the mother, an fully developed life. It is strictly your own opinion that leads you to believe when life begins, there is nothing tangible to back it up.
Your sole purpose in these debates is not to debate but to judge. You consistently answer these questions and answers with name calling and judgments...and what makes you better than anyone else? Unless you can unequivocally prove that you have led a faultless existance, that you are perfect and without sin or imperfection, that you have never made a mistake, then what makes you think that you can judge the lives of others whom you do not know? I hate to be cliche, but when you point the finger at someone you have 3 more pointing back at you. You should garner a little empathy and realize that you are not better than anyone else, you can in no way know what leads every woman into making such a decision and you are in no position to judge them.
[/b]
Reply With Quote
  #12  
September 8th, 2006, 01:04 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar I'm climbin' in yo window
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: next to Chuck Norris
Posts: 7,373
Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Quote:
I love how the life that's already here on earth doesn't even matter.[/b]

I think both the baby and the mother have equal rights; one is not above the other....BOTH have a right to life....

If it were me....I would most certainly die for my children....JMO. So, maybe in a way, a child IS priority in regards to right to life....I dunno....lol, jmo.
[/b][/quote]

I would die for my children, in a heartbeat, but I place priority on the lives of my existing children. Would you leave your children motherless if you found out that a child you were carrying, a potential life, ran the risk of killing you? If you were told that having a baby was going to be fatal, would you be so willing? What about the children you already have, where are they prioritized in that scenario?
__________________
Wife, Mother of 4, Homeschooling, and wine drinking.


Reply With Quote
  #13  
September 8th, 2006, 01:14 PM
mrobinson
Guest
Posts: n/a
<div class=\'quotetop\'>QUOTE(mommy1 @ Sep 8 2006, 05:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class=\'quotemain\'>It doesn't matter if a person is an unborn or an adult, they are both a life and they should both have equal rights. Why would some people think otherwise? I don't understand.We all were in the unborn state and a developing human is still a human whether they can survive outside of the uterus or not .They are alive while inside of the uterus.[/b][/quote]
They don't have equal rights because they are not equal. A fetus can die before becoming human.

Quote:
Why should you be allowed to vacuum out or rip apart an unborn baby's body?[/b]
Why should you be allowed to have kids in the first place? It's a fundamental part of choice of your own life. If I choose to eat candy all day, I can because it's my right to do so.. Honestly I would love to see restrictions on parents but then it would contradict my overall feelings that (whether or not I agree with it) people have the fundamental right to procreate.

Quote:
We shouldn't compare a human life to other kinds of life because human life is the most valuable kind of life.[/b]
*snicker* What an egocentric statement.

Quote:
So, when my unborn daughter was kicking and moving around inside of me, she still was not a life?? Huh? anyways..abortion is murder, no candy coating it and an unborn baby is just that.. a BABY in the developing stages.[/b]
Abortion is murder? Oh my! You know what? We should make sure every single miscarriage is investigated to make sure we can charge everyone of those women with murder if they had any idea their pregnancy would result in a miscarriage.

Quote:
I think both the baby and the mother have equal rights; one is not above the other....BOTH have a right to life....[/b]
If neither is above one, then what is the "right" solution when the baby will kill the mother?

Quote:
You should muster up a little empathy and realize that you are not better than anyone else, you can in no way know what leads every woman into making such a decision and you are in no position to judge them.[/b]
Reply With Quote
  #14  
September 8th, 2006, 01:20 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,496
RE: "Human life is the most valuable kind of life"


You seem to be basing your idea on human life on things like "moving in the womb" "heartbeat" etc, but then you go and say that humans are the most valuable kind of life. All mammals move in the womb and have heartbeats.

So I would think that someone who looks at humans as the most valuable kind of life would be able to demonstrate WHAT IS IT ABOUT HUMANS THAT MAKES THEM VALUABLE?

Is it their heartbeat? Their movement? Their genes?

This is where the argument of sentience comes in. Humans are valuable because of the higher thinking powers, the higher emotional power, the reasoning, etcetc.

So, if one argues that humans are the most valuable kind of life, I cannot see why this person would not accept a sentience argument.

UNless you happen to have a different quality that sets humans apart from animals and makes them so special?
__________________
taking jm breaks if you don't see me around much
Reply With Quote
  #15  
September 8th, 2006, 01:28 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 1,670
Quote:
RE: "Human life is the most valuable kind of life"


You seem to be basing your idea on human life on things like "moving in the womb" "heartbeat" etc, but then you go and say that humans are the most valuable kind of life. All mammals move in the womb and have heartbeats.

So I would think that someone who looks at humans as the most valuable kind of life would be able to demonstrate WHAT IS IT ABOUT HUMANS THAT MAKES THEM VALUABLE?

Is it their heartbeat? Their movement? Their genes?

This is where the argument of sentience comes in. Humans are valuable because of the higher thinking powers, the higher emotional power, the reasoning, etcetc.

So, if one argues that humans are the most valuable kind of life, I cannot see why this person would not accept a sentience argument.

UNless you happen to have a different quality that sets humans apart from animals and makes them so special?[/b]
humans have a soul and will go to either heaven or hell and will have to answer to God.
__________________
url=http://www.i-am-pregnant.com/1403420400][/url]
Reply With Quote
  #16  
September 8th, 2006, 01:29 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,496
so you can prove the existence of said soul? and when the fetus gains said soul?

If not, how can you push this theory on other people?
__________________
taking jm breaks if you don't see me around much
Reply With Quote
  #17  
September 8th, 2006, 01:30 PM
mrobinson
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
UNless you happen to have a different quality that sets humans apart from animals and makes them so special?
humans have a soul and will go to either heaven or hell and will have to answer to God.[/b]
Animals do too girl.. but you're talking to people who don't believe the same religious things you do.. I think it's great you worship this way, but please understand others don't do the same.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
September 8th, 2006, 01:34 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar I'm climbin' in yo window
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: next to Chuck Norris
Posts: 7,373
Quote:
humans have a soul and will go to either heaven or hell and will have to answer to God.
[/quote]

So stop expecting people to answer to you. Since you want to take the theological route, I think I know what God says about passing judgment too. A sin is a sin is a sin, and, no sin is greater than another, so the sins you have commited in your lifetime are equal to those that you judge others for......remember what I said about those 3 fingers?
__________________
Wife, Mother of 4, Homeschooling, and wine drinking.


Reply With Quote
  #20  
September 8th, 2006, 02:03 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar I'm climbin' in yo window
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: next to Chuck Norris
Posts: 7,373
[quote]
Quote:
I would die for my children, in a heartbeat, but I place priority on the lives of my existing children. Would you leave your children motherless if you found out that a child you were carrying, a potential life, ran the risk of killing you? If you were told that having a baby was going to be fatal, would you be so willing? What about the children you already have, where are they prioritized in that scenario?
I really don't think I could bring myself to knowingly kill my child...jmo...

I really can't see it. My life from that point on, would be just seriously damaged...seriously.

I wouldn't get an abortion. Point blank. I don't believe in it at all. There are much better alternatives. Abortions don't solve anything, they just add to the chaos.[quote]

Your life would be damaged? What about the lives of your children that would have to go on without their mother in their lives? What about the damage that could cause them? What is the better alternative when you are told that continuing a pregnancy will kill you, the choices are to terminate or die.

You see, it is a double edged sword, what is the priority? The lives of your exisiting children and the fact that they need their mother or the potential life that runs the risk of taking it away? One could find a selfish angle from either decision, me, I would choose my children that are here.
__________________
Wife, Mother of 4, Homeschooling, and wine drinking.


Reply With Quote
Reply

Topic Tools Search this Topic
Search this Topic:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:32 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0