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Abortion Debate

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  #1  
September 24th, 2006, 09:28 PM
kadydid
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So last week I rented season 2 of Grey's Anatomy and there was an episode about a women who was pregnant with 5 babies. She had taken fertility drugs and became pregnant with multiples.

One of the babies died, three were seriously ill and one was just too small but otherwise okay. She could have selected in the beginning, to reduce the amount of fetuses in her uterus but did not.

If someone needs to have a little help (fertility drugs) to get pregnant and they become pregnant with an almost unhealthy amount of babies is it better if the pregnancy is reduced to give 2 or 3 babies a good shot at a healthy life (and living)? Or is it better to keep all 5 or 6 or 7 or whatever babies and hope for the best, even though the odds say that most (if not all) your babies will be very sick (collapsed lung, low birth weight, under developed organs etc.)and could possibly die.

Is it better to hope for the best or give only a few a fairly good shot at being born healthy?
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  #2  
September 24th, 2006, 11:51 PM
Mega Super Mommy
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The definition of life and determintion of due process for the fetus are seriously questioned here. If a prolifer believes the fetus is a life and with the right to life, there can be no reduction...unless life is defined by someone else's ability to live. That is, one fetus must die to provide a better chance at life for the others, despite being a full fledged human life itself. The due process becomes "ensuring the best possible outcome" instead of focusing on the life rights of the fetus.

Again, a prolifer here, like in the tubal pregnancy case, must be following a different law than that established for humans with the right to life if they agree with reduction. If three born humans were in this case and someone felt the need to kill one to help the others live, they would be sent to jail on murder charges.

In short, I find reduction incompatible with a belief that the fetus has the right to life.
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  #3  
September 28th, 2006, 11:57 AM
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Honestly what evers best for the family.
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  #4  
September 28th, 2006, 03:10 PM
kadydid
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I really am surprised more people have not answered this one.
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  #5  
September 28th, 2006, 09:11 PM
chlodoll
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If I had a fertility treatment like that and all the eggs implanted I would reduce.
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  #6  
October 4th, 2006, 07:55 PM
mrobinson
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Quote:
I really am surprised more people have not answered this one.[/b]
Because I'm pro-choice.. I didn't feel it was appropriate for me to answer because you'd all know I would have no problem with downsizing.
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  #7  
October 8th, 2006, 12:52 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 12,330
Quote:
The definition of life and determintion of due process for the fetus are seriously questioned here. If a prolifer believes the fetus is a life and with the right to life, there can be no reduction...unless life is defined by someone else's ability to live. That is, one fetus must die to provide a better chance at life for the others, despite being a full fledged human life itself. The due process becomes "ensuring the best possible outcome" instead of focusing on the life rights of the fetus.

Again, a prolifer here, like in the tubal pregnancy case, must be following a different law than that established for humans with the right to life if they agree with reduction. If three born humans were in this case and someone felt the need to kill one to help the others live, they would be sent to jail on murder charges.

In short, I find reduction incompatible with a belief that the fetus has the right to life.[/b]
Where is your opinion in this or are you only interested in using this to tell prolifers how they MUST believe in order to be pro-life?

I would never get a reduction personally - even with all the loss I have already had & knowing it would likely result in more loss - I could never choose which ones were to live & which were to die. I wouldn't blame someone who did choose though - as it is what would be recommended by any Dr - and they would be doing it to try & ensure the survival of some of the babies.
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If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
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  #8  
October 8th, 2006, 12:56 PM
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As a former prolifer, this issue was actually the one that started my journey to prochoicedom. I believed the fetus had a right to life that could not be taken without good due process. Then I looked at this situation and saw that the due process these fetuses were receving was not possible at all- one was being killed to save the others. That got me thinking that these laws cannot work before birth and from there my opinions changed rapidly.

So, to answer your question, no I am not just interested in telling people what they can think. However, it is my opinion that if someone believes the fetus is a child with a right to life, I can see no way they can be for this procedure.

Am I not allowed to state this unless someone comes into the thread and says "I am prolife and ok with reduction"?

It is enough to know these people exist, and this is my opinion on that.

If it suits you better, you may read my post as a challenge for a prolifer to be both in favor of the right to life for the fetus and reduction...
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  #9  
October 8th, 2006, 01:06 PM
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The question boils down to: "Is it ok to kill an innocent person in order to save another?" (that is, if you believe the fetus is a human with the right to life like you and I have)
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  #10  
October 8th, 2006, 01:26 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
The question boils down to: "Is it ok to kill an innocent person in order to save another?" (that is, if you believe the fetus is a human with the right to life like you and I have)[/b]
Then my answer is yes - because I don't believe in having more die so that we can sleep easier. If a woman that was innocent was being held hostage & the person holding her was soooo dangerous that the belief was he would kill her anyway & there were others to still be saved - I would be okay if the choice was to shoot her in order to kill him. It would be a devastating situation. I don't like the choice - I would not be the shooter - I would not judge the shooter nor think them a murderer...some choices just suck. SO I am pro-life & I do belive there are some cases where there is only a choice between life & death & each person had to choose what makes sense to them. It doesn't make me question the sanctity of life - it doesn't make life less valuable in my eyes. It doesn't mean I value one life over another - I am just logical enough to understand there are situations where you may not be choosing one life over another but rather choosing a life (or some lives) in order to save any. In every situation it is NOT possible to save everyone.
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We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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  #11  
October 8th, 2006, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
SO I am pro-life & I do belive there are some cases where there is only a choice between life & death & each person had to choose what makes sense to them.[/b]
"what makes sense to them" is a very strange restriction to put on the right to life, and very problematic as well.
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  #12  
October 8th, 2006, 01:49 PM
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Another thought is if it is ok to reduce twins to singleton or triplets to twins...esp the trips to twins issue..there are many docs who might recommend it. What "chance of death" would there have to be before the "right to life" becomes amended?
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  #13  
October 8th, 2006, 03:06 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Location: Michigan
Posts: 12,330
Quote:
Another thought is if it is ok to reduce twins to singleton or triplets to twins...esp the trips to twins issue..there are many docs who might recommend it. What "chance of death" would there have to be before the "right to life" becomes amended?[/b]
I am not following what you mean as "right to life" being ammended.
__________________
B - Crazy momma to my two boys
We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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