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Abortion Debate

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  #1  
October 16th, 2006, 01:11 AM
glasscandie's Avatar What I make is what I am
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Just watched "The Silent Scream".

Jesus CHRIST. I'm seriously, literally, going to either puke, faint, or scream.

How can anyone watch that and say it's NOT wrong?!!!!!
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  #2  
October 16th, 2006, 03:29 AM
Mega Super Mommy
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I'll tell you what I tell every prolifer who brings up this video:

Check out Thinking About the Silent Scream produced by Patricia A. Jaworski.

Also, did you know the film speed was manipulated in the "thrashing around the womb" section?

There are other questions surrounding the film and how it was made. I can dig those up for you if you wish to read them.
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  #3  
October 16th, 2006, 03:39 AM
glasscandie's Avatar What I make is what I am
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I do wish to read them and/or see them. It's rather late here, so probably not tonight, but definately tomorrow, I'll research the video you're talking about.

I'd love to see the links, absolutely 100% not being sarcastic.
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  #4  
October 16th, 2006, 04:56 AM
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I had the same reaction the first time I saw it...it's very effective propaganda.

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/news-arti...-video-6136.htm

http://www.violence.de/prescott/humanist/abortion.html

Hope this helps!
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  #6  
October 16th, 2006, 09:59 AM
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The links Blondie posted have a great synopsis of Jaworski's work.
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  #8  
October 16th, 2006, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Eh, wasn't convincing to me. Speeding up or slowing down the film doesn't CHANGE the motions of the baby, it just speeds it up, or slows it down. I can agree to some extent, though, that the speeding up or slowing down may have been down to play on the emotional aspects of the film.

And the planned parenthood site is obviously a prochoice site, so that source is also biased (as others have stated that the movie was biased...I think it said that in the link).[/b]
Contrary to popular belief, Planned Parenthood is not recruiting women to get abortions It's a womans health clinic that happens to perform these services. All of the information they presented was scientific and factually based...because they are a national health organization they are held to a different standard than Joe Schmo's pro-life site that feeds you doctored pictures and misinformation.

As for the "motions of the baby"

Facts:

At this stage of pregnancy, all fetal movement is reflexive in nature rather than purposeful, since the latter requires cognition, which is the ability to perceive and know. For cognition to occur, the cortex (gray matter covering the brain) must be present, as well as myelinization (covering sheath) of the spinal cord and attached nerves, which is not the case.

An example of the reflex withdrawal without pain occurs in an anencephalic (absent brain) newborn. Another known example of the reflex movement at this stage of human pregnancy is thumb sucking in utero.

What is termed "frantic activity" by the fetus is a reflex response of the fetus resulting from movement of the uterus and its contents induced by operator manipulation of the suction curette or the ultrasound transducer on the abdomen. This same type of response would likely occur with any external stimulus. A one-cell organism such as an amoeba will reflexively move or display a withdrawal reaction when touched.

In addition, experts in ultrasonography and film technology have concluded that the videotape of the abortion was deliberately slowed down and subsequently speeded up to create an impression of hyperactivity.


But f you can find anything on any website, pro-life or otherwise, to debunk these facts feel free to post it!
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  #10  
October 16th, 2006, 11:51 AM
kadydid
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Quote:
Quote:
Eh, wasn't convincing to me. Speeding up or slowing down the film doesn't CHANGE the motions of the baby, it just speeds it up, or slows it down. I can agree to some extent, though, that the speeding up or slowing down may have been down to play on the emotional aspects of the film.

And the planned parenthood site is obviously a prochoice site, so that source is also biased (as others have stated that the movie was biased...I think it said that in the link).[/b]
Contrary to popular belief, Planned Parenthood is not recruiting women to get abortions It's a womans health clinic that happens to perform these services. All of the information they presented was scientific and factually based...because they are a national health organization they are held to a different standard than Joe Schmo's pro-life site that feeds you doctored pictures and misinformation.

As for the "motions of the baby"

Facts:

At this stage of pregnancy, all fetal movement is reflexive in nature rather than purposeful, since the latter requires cognition, which is the ability to perceive and know. For cognition to occur, the cortex (gray matter covering the brain) must be present, as well as myelinization (covering sheath) of the spinal cord and attached nerves, which is not the case.

An example of the reflex withdrawal without pain occurs in an anencephalic (absent brain) newborn. Another known example of the reflex movement at this stage of human pregnancy is thumb sucking in utero.

What is termed "frantic activity" by the fetus is a reflex response of the fetus resulting from movement of the uterus and its contents induced by operator manipulation of the suction curette or the ultrasound transducer on the abdomen. This same type of response would likely occur with any external stimulus. A one-cell organism such as an amoeba will reflexively move or display a withdrawal reaction when touched.

In addition, experts in ultrasonography and film technology have concluded that the videotape of the abortion was deliberately slowed down and subsequently speeded up to create an impression of hyperactivity.


But f you can find anything on any website, pro-life or otherwise, to debunk these facts feel free to post it!
[/b]
ITA

I had many very early ultrasounds with Owen because of my previous loss, and oddly enough he moved just as "violently" as that fetus on the video. I just watched it and was not impressed. In fact I think abortion is a very gross thing, I do not think the fetus or embryo is just a lump of cells, but I also know that this video is a bunch of BS.

I will say this, I think that a much older fetus maybe could feel pain, and I think that they might have some clue that something is happening, but not this early. And anyone who has had an early ultrasound can attest to the fact that they are little jumping beans and it has nothing to do with their consciousness.

I watched this video thinking maybe this could change my mind, but it just made me realize that not everyone is trying to be truthful when they have an agenda. (speaking of the doctor in this film not anyone else)
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  #11  
October 16th, 2006, 11:55 AM
chlodoll
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Planned parenthood is pro-choice but that doesnt mean they are biased with facts. Either someone is pro-choice or pro-life. There really is no neutral so how could there ver be a site that isnt somewhat biased??
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  #12  
October 16th, 2006, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
I read the link stating that the baby is just responding in a "reflexive way". I understand that.

BUT, Planned Parenthood is prochoice, there is no denying that. They are biased, and even prochoicers themselves say that just because you are prochoice doesn't mean you are pro-abortion...which is exactly what you pointed out here...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Quote:
Contrary to popular belief, Planned Parenthood is not recruiting women to get abortions It's a womans health clinic that happens to perform these services.[/b]
So it is biased, they are prochoice.
[/b][/quote]


Pro-choice bias and pro-life bias are two very different things...Planned Parenthood is not trying to sway you to get an abortion, a pro-life organization is trying to sway you to NOT get one. They offer the choice and they have concrete medical facts about what abortion is, but leave it up to the woman to decide, whereas a pro-life organization will pull out all the emotional stops and throw around non-scientific terms like "murder" and "baby" to get you to side with them.
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  #13  
October 16th, 2006, 12:00 PM
irishxrose
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Quote:
Quote:
I read the link stating that the baby is just responding in a "reflexive way". I understand that.

BUT, Planned Parenthood is prochoice, there is no denying that. They are biased, and even prochoicers themselves say that just because you are prochoice doesn't mean you are pro-abortion...which is exactly what you pointed out here...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
<div class='quotemain'>Contrary to popular belief, Planned Parenthood is not recruiting women to get abortions It's a womans health clinic that happens to perform these services.[/b]
So it is biased, they are prochoice.
[/b][/quote]


Pro-choice bias and pro-life bias are two very different things...Planned Parenthood is not trying to sway you to get an abortion, a pro-life organization is trying to sway you to NOT get one. They offer the choice and they have concrete medical facts about what abortion is, but leave it up to the woman to decide, whereas a pro-life organization will pull out all the emotional stops and throw around non-scientific terms like "murder" and "baby" to get you to side with them.
[/b][/quote]

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  #14  
October 16th, 2006, 12:02 PM
chlodoll
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again! Planned Parenthood is pro-your choice! They are there to help you with whatever you decide. Not force you into having an abortion.
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  #15  
October 16th, 2006, 12:04 PM
irishxrose
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Quote:
again! Planned Parenthood is pro-your choice! They are there to help you with whatever you decide. Not force you into having an abortion.[/b]
I think a lot of pro-lifers completely misunderstand what Planned Parenthood REALLY is. They don't force you to have an abortion... it is a WOMEN'S HEALTH clinic, which doesn't automatically mean abortion.
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  #17  
October 16th, 2006, 12:06 PM
irishxrose
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Pro-life sites are known for their notoriously bad, misleading and UTTERLY FALSE information, and THAT is why they are biased.
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  #18  
October 16th, 2006, 12:07 PM
Mega Super Mommy
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I find no problem with posting factual information from prolife sites (for example, let's say an article from a scholarly journal that is posted on a prolife site with correct citation). It would be like me linking the AAP stance on circumcision off the NOCIRC site, it's not written by them, just reprinted there and easy to find.
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  #20  
October 16th, 2006, 12:10 PM
chlodoll
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I agree that I do not mind facts from a prolife site, except they are notorious for being untrue and misleading. It gives a immediate bad rep to any legitamate prolife site.
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