Log In Sign Up

Prochoice Bias....Incorrect and Invalid Information.


Abortion Debate

This forum is for Abortion debate only. If you are highly sensitive about this topic, read at your own discretion.

Welcome to the JustMommies Message Boards.

We pride ourselves on having the friendliest and most welcoming forums for moms and moms to be! Please take a moment and register for free so you can be a part of our growing community of mothers. If you have any problems registering please drop an email to boards@justmommies.com.

Our community is moderated by our moderation team so you won't see spam or offensive messages posted on our forums. Each of our message boards is hosted by JustMommies hosts, whose names are listed at the top each board. We hope you find our message boards friendly, helpful, and fun to be on!

Reply Post New Topic
  Subscribe To Abortion Debate LinkBack Topic Tools Search this Topic Display Modes
  #2  
October 16th, 2006, 06:45 PM
chlodoll
Guest
Posts: n/a
From PP

Quote:
Emotional Problems After Abortion
Serious, long-term emotional problems after abortion are extremely rare and less common than they are after childbirth. Such problems are more likely if

- the pregnancy was wanted but the health of the fetus or the woman was in danger
- having an abortion is related to serious problems in a relationship or other disturbing life events
- a woman is depressed or has other emotional problems that predate her pregnancy[/b]
I would put alot of money on the fact that alot of these women having abortions already have problems in their lives and are more depressed over the surronding circumstances off their abortion.

Just because you think women she feel poorly and guilty after having an abortion doesnt make it true that they all do.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
October 16th, 2006, 06:45 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,496
I already refuted the brain waves claim. Something showing up on a scan doesn't mean "brain waves." Plants show those same patterns with no brains at all. The fetus, at 12 weeks, has no connection to the undeveloped cortex; hence, no ability to have "brain waves". What they saw, and what people are referring to in those early fetuses, are simply electrical impulses. It is impossible to have a brain wave with no connection to the cortex, scientifically speaking.

"Brain wave" is a very nontechnical term and the prolife side uses this to their advantage
__________________
taking jm breaks if you don't see me around much
Reply With Quote
  #4  
October 16th, 2006, 06:49 PM
kadydid
Guest
Posts: n/a
I do not have the brain waves myself to read through all that right now, but I will say this.... I think everyone should do independent research from unbiased sites. That's like asking "answers in genesis" for truthful information on evolution. Or evilbible.com for info on the bible. I do not know for sure if PP has lied about anything or if what they are saying is considered correct by the medical community, good true medical information on the net can be hard to come by from reputable medical sites.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
October 16th, 2006, 06:54 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,496
Again, I highly recommend anyone who wants good medical information on the development of the human brain to check out Thinking About the Silent Scream produced by Patricia A. Jaworski. I downloaded it via bittorrent many months back but i am sure it is available in other ways.
__________________
taking jm breaks if you don't see me around much
Reply With Quote
  #9  
October 16th, 2006, 06:55 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,496
FYI, ym failure to comment on all your points doesn't mean I agree with them, I just don't really feel like engaging this topic any more tonight. Again, check out Thinking About the Silent Scream.
__________________
taking jm breaks if you don't see me around much
Reply With Quote
  #12  
October 16th, 2006, 07:07 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,496
what? I have been attempting to engage your posts on this (well, not just yours but others too) about this a lot tonight. I said that PP's statement does not claim 200 to be the norm but, rather, normal. And that their statement is in attempt to refute the idea that the fetus is reacting to "imminent death", so they are offering other possibilities (which, IMO, they dont even need to since a fetus cannot process death coming). Your own source shows a graphic spread that includes heartrates of 185 and up. Yeah, not many...but a few. I gave you my experience that it was not said to be anything wrong when my fetus had a bpm of 182.

I am not sure what exactly you are looking for?


I don't think, as I said in the other thread, that PP is trying to state the "be all and end all" statements on fetal heart rate. They are just showing how the facts don't exactly add up to the videos conclusion.

Quote:
and since my evidence is really overwhelming[/b]
It isn't. It doesn't take away anything from PP or I have said here. Brain waves do not exist at this stage of development. There is no connection to the cortex. The fetus feels no pain and has no ability to reason, think, etc. A 200 bpm is not necessarily a "reaction to imminent death" but, rather, probbaly normal flux.

You hjave yet to show me that PASS affects the majority of women getting abortions (and, as blondie stated, in order for it to be from abortions, there would have to be a connect to the abortion itself)

And, by the way, you do understand what a mean is, correct? And what a maximum mean is? Your sources are not as concrete as you seem to state them to be...
__________________
taking jm breaks if you don't see me around much
Reply With Quote
  #13  
October 16th, 2006, 07:14 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,496
Your sources state:

Quote:
Preterm fetus (at 20 weeks gestational age) has a mean heart rate of 155 beats/minute.[/b]
Quote:
During week 9, the heart rate reaches a maximum of mean 175 bpm.[/b]
__________________
taking jm breaks if you don't see me around much
Reply With Quote
  #16  
October 16th, 2006, 07:24 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,496
Basically they are saying it is not indicative of "a feeling" as the video claims. The fetus does not suddenly feel stress or flight reflex of think about imminent death, etcetc.


And since we aonly see this fetus hooked up for a small amount of time, relatively speaking, we don't realy know anything about its normal tendencies or if the monitor is constantly showing a flux or whatever.
__________________
taking jm breaks if you don't see me around much
Reply With Quote
  #18  
October 16th, 2006, 07:27 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,496
Quote:
if it is to purely refute JUST the idea that the fetus is reacting to imminent death? Wouldn't they bold other parts of this paragraph, as well?[/b]
They clearly state that this is the claim they are attempting to refute.

Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Quote:
I think what she means is that the site was stating 200 bpm is a NORMAL heart rate, it may not be the majority of fetal heart rates but it is normal and does happen to the minority of fetus's, and so PP wasnt stating that 200 bpm is a majority fetal heart range, they are just stating that its normal. does this make sense?[/b]
Yes, I do understand what she is saying...but...that is really not what PP is saying...

Quote:
a fetal heart rate of 200 is within the normal range (normal 180–200 beats per minute) for this stage of pregnancy.[/b]
This statement is implying that the "normal heart range" is BETWEEN and EXCLUSIVE to 180-200bpm in this stage of the pregnancy.

See what I mean? The are excluding the range between 180-200 as normal...not just 200 in the "normal range"...etc., etc.
[/b][/quote]


You could write to them and ask them to clarify what "normal 180-200 bpm" means, since it is a sentence fragment which we all seem to be clarifying in a different way.
__________________
taking jm breaks if you don't see me around much
Reply With Quote
  #20  
October 16th, 2006, 07:42 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,496
Quote:
Claim:
Fetal heart rate rose from 140 to 200, which is abnormally high and reflective of fetal response to "imminent mortal danger." SEE HERE

Expert Opinion:
The heart rate of the fetus portrayed in the film does not change significantly at any time. Nevertheless, a fetal heart rate of 200 is within the normal range (normal 180–200 beats per minute) for this stage of pregnancy. It is also unlikely that the fetus had a heart rate of 140 that rose to 200. A rate of 140 is generally noted in the latter half of pregnancy.[/b]
__________________
taking jm breaks if you don't see me around much
Reply With Quote
Reply

Topic Tools Search this Topic
Search this Topic:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:13 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0