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Rant about terms ~ fetus and abortion


Abortion Debate

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  #1  
October 20th, 2006, 07:53 AM
mrobinson
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I keep reading over and over how hurt and offended women are when their miscarriages are referred to as abortions and babies are referred to as fetuses..

The terms of fetus and abortion aren't cruel but have become cruel because of the war against elective abortions by people who disagree with it. These terms weren't invented just for this war but because it's the medical terms. It doesn't take away the gravity of what a fetus is but people seem to think by using that term it helps pro-choicers feel better at night. Pro-choicers understand that a fetus is a developing baby and a medical term. It doesn't make the term less valued. It has become that by some people who have demonized the terms.

I think the reason I felt taken aback about a year ago on people's stance on abortion is because of this demonization that people have harnessed on to. Trust me fetus=developing baby and spontaneous abortion=miscarriage with all the gravity associated with these terms.

I get the gravity of why it hurts so bad.. I just wish people could see it's their personal issue against abortion that is partly why it's so intense.
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  #2  
October 20th, 2006, 10:19 AM
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I agree.
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  #4  
October 20th, 2006, 10:31 AM
Dayna1
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I was surprised when my doctor put down I had had one abortion...I had NO IDEA miscarriages were referred to as abortions.

I don't agree with abortion which is why I didn't like him calling it that.
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  #5  
October 20th, 2006, 10:45 AM
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It's not so much a personal issue to me. I have conflicting feelings about abortion due to my experiences with miscarriage. I'm not entirely against abortion, but I am against it in certain situations. My thoughts on abortion:

1. I do not agree that it should be used as a means of birth control. I can see someone using birth control to prevent pregnancy, but it doesn't work, and they get an abortion. That's one thing. But it's completely different when someone just doesn't want to buy bcp or condoms or whatever kind of birth control because they don't want to, but then turn around and have multiple abortions because they don't want the pregnancies.

2. I do not agree with late/partial abortions. I would hope that if a fetus has a chance for survival outside of the womb, then that pregnancy would be allowed to continue and adoption would be the choice.

I know that the medical term for miscarriage is "spontaneous abortion", but that's such a strong word in my opinion. It may be the "lay" terms we use to distinguish the two, but I'm not a doctor and nobody I know is either. (well besides my doctors) If I tell someone "I had a spontaneous abortion" they're going to think I had the procedure done, not a miscarriage.
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  #6  
October 20th, 2006, 12:04 PM
mrobinson
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Quote:
I was surprised when my doctor put down I had had one abortion...I had NO IDEA miscarriages were referred to as abortions.

I don't agree with abortion which is why I didn't like him calling it that.[/b]

Quote:
If I tell someone "I had a spontaneous abortion" they're going to think I had the procedure done, not a miscarriage.[/b]

Exactly why it's so interesting how many people don't know the truth, and assume it's a negative word. Again this is because the word has been demonized.
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  #7  
October 20th, 2006, 01:05 PM
dinamommy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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My doctor did not use that term when he did my diagnosis and I'm sure that in part, it's because he was being sensitive to me. He instead used the term "spontaneous miscarriage". I see on this board all the time that the pro-lifers need to be sensitive to those who have had an abortion by not calling it murder or killing even though, to some, that may be what it is. Shouldn't we (including our health care providers) in turn, be sensitive to those who have miscarried. We can't get away from the fact that the term abortion has come to mean the intentional ending of a pregnancy. Those who miscarry are not intentionally trying to end the life of their unborn child.
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  #8  
October 20th, 2006, 01:08 PM
mrobinson
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Quote:
My doctor did not use that term when he did my diagnosis and I'm sure that in part, it's because he was being sensitive to me. He instead used the term "spontaneous miscarriage". I see on this board all the time that the pro-lifers need to be sensitive to those who have had an abortion by not calling it murder or killing even though, to some, that may be what it is. Shouldn't we (including our health care providers) in turn, be sensitive to those who have miscarried. We can't get away from the fact that the term abortion has come to mean the intentional ending of a pregnancy. Those who miscarry are not intentionally trying to end the life of their unborn child.[/b]
But that's the whole point.. pro-lifers argue it's ok to use kill, murder, etc.. They use it DAILY here.. so I'm trying to convey why they can't have it both ways then. Fetus and abortion has the same emotional gravity to pro-choicers yet pro-lifers REFUSE to see it.
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  #9  
October 20th, 2006, 01:10 PM
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It would probably make more sense to ask the activist community to change the term they use. I mean, it's a medical term. Changing it would involve a lot more than it may seem.
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  #10  
October 20th, 2006, 01:11 PM
mrobinson
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This agruement furthers my feelings that pro-lifers demonize pro-choicers ~ fetus, abortion, killing, murder.. It's all the same. Well that's why every one of those terms is equally painful to a pro-choicer. Contrary to popular belief those terms have the same gravity across the board.
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  #11  
October 20th, 2006, 01:25 PM
dinamommy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Yes, but can't you see why it would be insensitive to someone who has miscarried to call what happened to them an abortion? I did not choose for my child to die. I have never even posted in this area before, but this subject just hit a little too close to home. I would never condemn someone for having an abortion and probably wouldn't even debate with them about whether it was right or wrong. I have compassion for those who have been through this. From what I hear, it's very traumatic. In return, I would appreciate my miscarriage not being called an abortion because it is something that I am sensitive about.

ETA: I wasn't demonizing anyone with my previous post......I just wanted to call attention to WHY this could be offensive.
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  #12  
October 20th, 2006, 01:31 PM
mrobinson
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Quote:
Yes, but can't you see why it would be insensitive to someone who has miscarried to call what happened to them an abortion? I did not choose for my child to die. I have never even posted in this area before, but this subject just hit a little too close to home. I would never condemn someone for having an abortion and probably wouldn't even debate with them about whether it was right or wrong. I have compassion for those who have been through this. From what I hear, it's very traumatic. In return, I would appreciate my miscarriage not being called an abortion because it is something that I am sensitive about.

ETA: I wasn't demonizing anyone with my previous post......I just wanted to call attention to WHY this could be offensive.[/b]
I totally understand why a miscarriage being labelled abortion is hurtful. I think it could be avoided if the term spontanous abortion didn't have a negative connotation to it. It's demonized compared to the term miscarriage. Both mean the same (dreadful) thing yet abortion is more hurtful. Why ~ because it's been demonized.
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  #14  
October 20th, 2006, 01:37 PM
mrobinson
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Dinamommy, I guess prolifers are the ones who are "demonizing" prochoicers by stating what they believe is true in their heart. I don't think anyone was talking about you demonizing anyone, because you haven't even posted here before.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Quote:
Both mean the same (dreadful) thing yet abortion is more hurtful. Why ~ because it's been demonized.[/b]
How has it been demonized?

Isn't the difference between an abortion (an induced abortion that is), that the "fetus's" life was ended intentionally?

While the miscarriage did not end the "fetus's" life intentionally?

That is fact. So, to me, it isn't the same, and it hasn't been "demonized" in THESE ways.
[/b][/quote]
Spontaneous and elective abortions are different but both end in abortion. The term abortion has been used in a malice way.. The lack of education about the term abortion (people not knowing that spontaneous abortion is a miscarriage) proves it.
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  #15  
October 20th, 2006, 01:43 PM
dinamommy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Yes, Michelle, but it DOES have a negative connotation. There is no getting around that, the way I see it. How are you going to change the perception of millions of people? I'm so greatful that my doctor chose to consider my feelings when giving my diagnosis because of this negative connotation. While we're on that subject, does something having a negative connotation necessarily mean that it is being demonized? Hmmmm....something to think about.

Edited for spelling
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  #17  
October 20th, 2006, 01:53 PM
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Medical terms aren't always used for everything. Seems lay terms are the ones most often used. I had never even heard the term "spontaneous abortion" until I had my miscarriages. I heard them referred to as either miscarriage or abortion, and they both have a distinct meaning to the average person. I don't think the word has necessarily been "demonized" it just has come to be used only in cases of "elective abortions". I don't think it's so much either that it's used in a menacing way, just that like I said before, to most people they do have a distinct meaning to the two words. I'm sure there are some people who have had an elective abortion AND a spontaneous abortion and I'd almost bet that they say "i've had an abortion and a miscarriage". Even they probably wouldn't use the medical terms for them.

I can't claim to be 100% prolife or prochoice since I do believe in limitations to the abortion rights, but I still believe that it's not only prolifers who can be sensitive about calling a miscarriage an abortion. I'm sure some prochoicers will feel the same way.
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  #18  
October 20th, 2006, 02:00 PM
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Words do not develope connotation in and of themselves, so of course it is in the actions of people (that is, how the word is used and what types of conversations and other words come along with that word.)

I think "demonized" works here simply because of the taking of a medical term and the creation of these horrible feelings about it through whatever means (activism, debate, sermon, whatever).

WHy not speak of "elective abortions" instead of being upset about the term spontaneous abortion? Instead of making the medical term change, why not begin to use a more descriptive language. There are also "theraputic abortions."

Are people really that upset by the word fetus?
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  #19  
October 20th, 2006, 02:00 PM
mrobinson
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Quote:
Yes, Michelle, but it DOES have a negative connotation. There is no getting around that, the way I see it. How are you going to chance the perception of millions of people? I'm so greatful that my doctor chose to consider my feelings when giving my diagnosis because of this negative connotation.[/b]
We agree that it has a negative connotation to it! I'm trying to say that education (or lack of it by the war against elective abortion) is the root of it. If we actually educated people in the first place rather than having the wrong definition of it presented in the first place, then yes we could change millions of minds about it.

Quote:
While we're on that subject, does something having a negative connotation necessarily mean that it is being demonized? Hmmmm....something to think about.[/b]
If it's not demonized, why doesn't the term miscarriage carry the same amount of righteous judgement as compared to the term spontaneous abortion?
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  #20  
October 20th, 2006, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Are people really that upset by the word fetus?[/b]
This word doesn't upset me at all. Sometimes I say baby, sometimes I say fetus, I guess it's whichever comes out of my mouth or through my fingers when I'm typing about it. Embryo doesn't bother me either. They're all words that mean the same thing, just in different stages of development. Yes, my unborn child is technically considered a fetus, but I still call him a baby sometimes.


And Michelle, I understand your point 100%. For lack of better comparison probably... abortion means "elective abortion" to the majority of people just as breast means "sexual object" to the majority of people. It's all in how the word is used and viewed. Maybe since it's the lack of education on what the term "abortion" really means, this debate board should be called "elective abortion debate" instead of just "abortion debate". Maybe that will make a bit of a difference? Maybe not.

Quote:
If it's not demonized, why doesn't the term miscarriage carry the same amount of righteous judgement as compared to the term spontaneous abortion?[/b]
I think this is because there is no other term for abortion besides abortion. If there is, I haven't heard it. (besides elective abortion but it still has "abortion" in there)
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