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Prolife movement and vaccines


Abortion Debate

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  #1  
October 29th, 2006, 08:41 AM
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Human Diploid cells/ aborted fetal tissues are used in the manufactoring of many vaccines.

How can one be totally prolife and also vaccinate?

A quote from a Merck Shareholder meeting.

Quote:
The RA 27/3 obtained its tissue from the last in a line of 27 babies who were deliberately aborted in a controlled setting in order to extract the live virus. These cell lines were thus created at the cost of dozens of innocent human lives with the full knowledge of Merck researchers[/b]
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  #2  
October 29th, 2006, 08:53 AM
mrobinson
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whoa.. I didn't know that.. (At least it's not on live animals.)
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  #3  
October 29th, 2006, 09:22 AM
crunchymama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I knew that it is one of the many reasons we don't vaccinate.I don't know of the top of my head which vaccines are made with the aborted tissues though.
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  #4  
October 29th, 2006, 09:26 AM
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Vaccine truth lists a lot of them, and these are just the ones they have info on from the article:

Quote:
Diseases: - Vaccine - Manufacturer - Cell line (human fetal)

Polio: - Poliovax - Aventis-Pasteur - MRC-5

Measles, Mumps, Rubella: - MMR II - Merck & Co. - RA273 and WI-38
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circul...i/mmr_ii_pi.pdf

Measles-Rubella: - Biavax II - Merck & Co. - RA 273 and WI-38

Rubella only: - MR-VAX - Merck & Co. - RA 273 and WI-38

Rabies: - Imovax - Vantis-Pasteur - MRC-5
http://www.vaccineshoppe.com/US_PDF/...ovax_IM_VS.pdf

Hepatitis A:
Havrix - Merck & Co. - MRC-5
http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_havrix.pdf

Vaqta - GlaxoSmithKline - MRC-5
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circul...ta/vaqta_pi.pdf

Hepatitis A-B combo: - Twinrix - GlaxoSmithKline - MRC-5
http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_twinrix.pdf

Chickenpox: Varixax - Merck & Co. - WI-38 and MRC-5
http://www.merckvaccines.com/vaccines/vari/pi_vari.pdf

Smallpox - Acambix 1000 - Acambis - MRC-5

Ebola: - Unknown (still waiting for trial) - Crucell & N.I.H. - PER C6

HIV Unknown: - (still waiting for trial) - Merck & Co. - PER C6

Sepsis Xigris: - Eli Lilley - HEK 293
http://www.biologicsconsulting.com/docs/le...AB20011121A.pdf

Influenza (flu): - unknown - MedImmune - PER C6

Measles, Mumps, Rubella and Chickenpox
ProQuad 01 Aug 05 measles-mumps-rubella-varicella vaccine
http://www.fda.gov/cber/label/mmrvmer090605LB.pdf[/b]


I just recently discovered the use of foreskins to make some vaccines.
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  #5  
October 29th, 2006, 09:29 AM
crunchymama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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^^ really I have never heard of that.

quite disgusting but then again I think injecting animal substances into our kids is also quite disgusting.
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  #6  
October 29th, 2006, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
^^ really I have never heard of that.

quite disgusting but then again I think injecting animal substances into our kids is also quite disgusting.[/b]

The HPV vaccine was the latest to use cells from discarded foreskins. It just makes me wonder if the practice of infant circumcision continues to be "OK" in the medical community because of things like vaccines that use them, facial creams that use foreskins, the money they get from the cut, etc.


That's actually what made me start this thread. Just wondering how people deal with this issue within the abortion debate, as so many vaccines have been produced using aborted fetuses.
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  #7  
October 29th, 2006, 01:50 PM
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Just so that we are all clear here - the abortions took place in 1962 (WI-38) 1964 (RA-273) 1966 (MRC-5) 1985 (PERC-6).

I don't personally find this to be a problem for one reason - nothing can be done to undo what happened then & there is absolutely no evidence that in the past or future that vaccines promote or contribute to abortion.

If I were to believe vaccines were wrong on this basis (and I won't actually comment or get into the issues I do have with vaccines) - then I would have to say other things are wrong as well - that obviously we all don't have a problem with..such as:

Let's say I have a sick husband in need of a heart transplant. Let's say somewhere a main is beaten to death. Let's say their heart is a match for my child - do I say "No - I won't take that heart & help my Dh because another man died unjustly to provide that heart" ?

It is the same to me in this case...the case studies of those abortions clearly indicate that the decision to abort in those cases had nothing to do with furthering the science of vaccination, nor were the women paid for that & would have taken place regardless of whether the remains were then disposed of or used to develop life-saving vaccinations. If I believed for even a moment that abortions were being performed now for the express purpose of providing tissue to be used in this way, I would be the first person on a soap-box - but clearly that is not what is happening & I can't undo what happened 44yrs ago, 42 yrs ago, 40 yrs ago & 21 yrs ago by refusing that treatment today.

I totally respect if others feel they cannot get past that where the vaccine originates. That is their right. I think I expressed why it isn't a moral/ethical dilemma to me already.

And a separate question...is Sepsis Xigris a vaccine or is it a treatment for Sepsis?
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  #8  
October 29th, 2006, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
I don't personally find this to be a problem for one reason - nothing can be done to undo what happened then & there is absolutely no evidence that in the past or future that vaccines promote or contribute to abortion.[/b]
THis is why I wouldn't have an issue with it.. it doesn't seem like they are promoting the practice in any way. (but I am not sure I can say this about foreskins, which worries me)

HOwever, "human diploid cells" are listed as an ingrediant on a few vaccines, including the MMR, hepA, and rabies- I think this is where some people have a problem as well. It's the idea of being injected by it I guess.
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  #9  
October 29th, 2006, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
whoa.. I didn't know that.. (At least it's not on live animals.)[/b]
You are so sick! You think animals are worth more than humans.
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  #10  
October 29th, 2006, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
whoa.. I didn't know that.. (At least it's not on live animals.)[/b]
You are so sick! You think animals are worth more than humans.
[/b]
I highly suggest you read the forum guidlines (specifically the ones regarding personal attacks)
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  #11  
October 29th, 2006, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
whoa.. I didn't know that.. (At least it's not on live animals.)[/b]
You are so sick! You think animals are worth more than humans.
[/b]

A lot of people don't see a fetus as a fully developed human or person yet, but an animal is alive and has the abillity to suffer and feel pain as well as sentience, depending on the animal and your definition of the word. So it isn't a question of one being worth more, but, rather, that they are totally different things and cannot be compared (a fetus and a born animal).

Also, many may see humans and animals as equals and not worth more than the other.
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  #12  
October 29th, 2006, 04:27 PM
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I don't even know how to answer this, because my views are pretty contradictory. I'm for stem cell research, and I'm pro-vaccinating, but I'm against abortion. I don't really have the time to get into my reasons at this very moment, but I'll be sure to be back at 2am to explain lol
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  #13  
October 29th, 2006, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
THis is why I wouldn't have an issue with it.. it doesn't seem like they are promoting the practice in any way. (but I am not sure I can say this about foreskins, which worries me)[/b]
I think this could dangeroulsy lead to a circumcision debate. Let's focus on the topic of abortion.

Quote:
HOwever, "human diploid cells" are listed as an ingrediant on a few vaccines, including the MMR, hepA, and rabies- I think this is where some people have a problem as well. It's the idea of being injected by it I guess.[/b]
Personally, I agree with Beck12. If I start doing all t hese associations I would never be in favor or against anything as so many issues are intertwined. If a baby is going to be aborted, I'm not the moral judge of that person and I wouldn't deny my child the protection of a vaccine just because it was obtained in a way I don't agree with.
As beck said, if abortion was used to continue to make these vaccines and if it was promoted as a way to get the cells to make this vaccines, I'd be the first one voicing my indignation. But not being that the case, I'll continue to do what I think is best for my children and let others deal with their own concsience (sp?).
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  #14  
October 29th, 2006, 07:02 PM
myonlysunshine
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This issue was what first got me started researching vaccines last year... and ultimately deciding to stop vaxing for many reasons. I understand the details of them being made from abortions that happened decades ago, but even if I wasn't pro-life, the very thought of another human's cells being injected into my child disgusts me!
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  #15  
October 29th, 2006, 07:04 PM
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Sorry, was just explaining how I came to wonder about this issue even though I am not "prolife" - It is kind of an issue I am dealing with on another subject but thought the "thinking" might be the same (kwim?)


That and the other place I could post this was closed I will do a dual thread there tomorrow tho, so if anyone wants to tell me their thoughts on that we can take it up there.
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  #16  
October 29th, 2006, 07:14 PM
crunchymama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I thought she meant at least they don't test it on animals.....


I don't see how it containing cells from aborted tissue would mean that it isn't tested on animals though.
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  #17  
October 29th, 2006, 07:17 PM
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Well, they used the cells to cultivate the virus for the vaccine, so I guess she is saying she is glad they didn't do that to living animals (infect them with virus)-- though they may have to test it on them...no idea on that one. I have never read about the role of animals in vaccine creation.
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  #18  
October 29th, 2006, 07:23 PM
myonlysunshine
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Quote:
I have never read about the role of animals in vaccine creation.[/b]
Vaccines are typically tested on mice, rats and monkeys before they are licenced and approved.
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  #19  
October 29th, 2006, 07:33 PM
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I have been looking for info on this:

Vaccine truth states that Merck has agreed to provide fetal tissue free vaccines to people who want them. That begs the question, for me, "why don't they just make them all like that?" But the articles I have found don't go too far into this. Is it cheaper? or just more hassle to make the "ethical vaccines" (aparently there is an "ethical vaccine" intiative going on?)

Anyone know anymore about this?
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  #20  
October 29th, 2006, 07:41 PM
crunchymama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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ethical vaccines? That is an oxymoron.
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