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Abortion Debate

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  #1  
October 31st, 2006, 11:03 AM
quietsong's Avatar Just Another Slacker Mom
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Pulled from this news story ... The mother found out via ultrasound that part of her fetus' brain was missing, a fatal diagnosis, though it is possible for the child to be carried to term and delivered before s/he passes.

If there is a 0% chance that the baby will survive, does that impact or change your views on abortion?

Personally, I had considered the circumstance where it was a choice between the child's life and the mother's, but this was a new angle I had not looked at. I think, for myself, I would probably carry on hoping that my baby would be the exception to the rule, but I can see where that would be an extremely difficult path.
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  #2  
October 31st, 2006, 11:10 AM
mrobinson
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This case you listed exactly is why abortion is about a decision between her doctor and her..

Jaroslaw, a graduate of Harvard College and of Georgetown Law School, says she came forward to speak about her abortion because "the issues aren't as simple as people think. Nobody in advance of a diagnosis says, 'I want that procedure.' What people want is proper medical care."

"The idea of being pregnant for so many more months and having people ask about the baby, it would have been a nightmare," Jaroslaw says. She was also concerned that her children would be traumatized by having their sibling be born and die. She says she talked with her rabbi, and he supported her choice.

Jaroslaw says her desire for a third child led her doctor to recommend that she have the fetus removed intact, to avoid trauma to her uterus. "When you've had so many cuts in the uterus, you want as little instrumentation and probing around as possible."

Coincidentally, she underwent the abortion as Congress was debating its ban on "partial-birth" abortion. "I asked my doctor whether, if the bill passed, the procedure I was about to have would be illegal," Jaroslaw says. "He said yes."

Bush signed the bill into law in November 2003.

"I'm a family person," Jaroslaw says. "I don't think I'm unique in my situation, except that I will talk about it. When I went back to work, people opened up to me with their own stories."
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  #4  
October 31st, 2006, 11:47 AM
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Hmm...I think I would force the woman to prove that the child had no chance and then I would sit her in front of an ethics committee and have them decide whether or not she should carry the child to term, but I would add that, if the child died before term, we would then extract it in whichever approved method she would like. Then I might tell her that her child could live for a few minutes just to cheer her up a bit.















Her body, her choice.
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  #5  
October 31st, 2006, 11:54 AM
mrobinson
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Quote:
Hmm...I think I would force the woman to prove that the child had no chance and then I would sit her in front of an ethics committee and have them decide whether or not she should carry the child to term, but I would add that, if the child died before term, we would then extract it in whichever approved method she would like. Then I might tell her that her child could live for a few minutes just to cheer her up a bit.















Her body, her choice.[/b]
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  #6  
October 31st, 2006, 11:58 AM
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Sorry, my flame has been lit today...my mom sent me an article that panama is considering a law like Nicaragua's.
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  #7  
October 31st, 2006, 11:58 AM
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That is a DIFFICULT one! I think that is one of those situation in which you don't know what you will do unless you are faced with it. I can see myself aborting for sanity's sake. But, I can also see myself hoping for a miracle and wanting to name, hold, see and bury the child as well. That's a hard one!
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  #8  
October 31st, 2006, 12:03 PM
mrobinson
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Quote:
Sorry, my flame has been lit today...my mom sent me an article that panama is considering a law like Nicaragua's. [/b]
((head shaking)) Have you checked out the thread about the government limiting the number of kids a women should have? Funny how we can't just trust the woman to make the right decision for her and her body on abortion, yet the number of kids? No problem. The government shouldn't ever have laws on my reproductive organs ~ period. I cry for those poor women.
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  #10  
October 31st, 2006, 12:15 PM
~Trina~'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I absolutely would!! My cousin and his wife were told that their baby could never survive outside the womb due to a severe heart condition..... and he proved them wrong. He lived for 6 years before he passed away. That's 6 years that they wouldn't have had with him if they had taken their doctors advice and terminated the pregnancy. He had a great life.. was such a happy child.

So, I would absolutely carry to term!
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  #11  
October 31st, 2006, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
I absolutely would!! My cousin and his wife were told that their baby could never survive outside the womb due to a severe heart condition..... and he proved them wrong. He lived for 6 years before he passed away. That's 6 years that they wouldn't have had with him if they had taken their doctors advice and terminated the pregnancy. He had a great life.. was such a happy child.

So, I would absolutely carry to term![/b]

So I take it you believe that a child with no brain could, by some miracle, grow a brain? This child in question had no chance of life beyond the minnutes past birth. Having a heart condition and lacking a brain (in addition to spinal problems) are two very different things.

The question:

Quote:
If there is a 0% chance that the baby will survive, does that impact or change your views on abortion?[/b]
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  #13  
October 31st, 2006, 12:23 PM
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I would like to know what heart condition would lead a doctor to say the child could never survive outside the womb and then the child lived 6 years. I have heard so many people here give these stories yet I have never seen documentation. was thre a second opinion? a misdiagnosis? was the opinion that the chance was practically nothing taken to mean "no chance"?

The OP doesn't ask if a doctor told u they couldn't live, the question just assumes the child has absolutely no chance.
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  #14  
October 31st, 2006, 12:24 PM
~Trina~'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I would always carry baby to term .... does it REALLY matter if baby dies today or in 4 months at birth. At least at death at birth would be a natural death.

I didn't claim that the baby with no brain and a baby with a fatal heart condition were the same... I simply answered the question...

Quote:
If there is a 0% chance that the baby will survive, does that impact or change your views on abortion?[/b]
and my answer is No... I still would not be in favor of abortion. Besides, doctors don't know everything...and while missing half a brain is probably not an incorrect diagnosis.... who am I to decide when the child should die?
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  #15  
October 31st, 2006, 12:30 PM
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As long the opinion isn't forced on others, I am all for it.

Edited to change wording.

Of course, if one supports the ban that makes this procedure for this woman illegal, then they are forcing the decision on her.
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  #16  
October 31st, 2006, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
I would like to know what heart condition would lead a doctor to say the child could never survive outside the womb and then the child lived 6 years. I have heard so many people here give these stories yet I have never seen documentation. was thre a second opinion? a misdiagnosis?[/b]
I don't know the name of the condition and I was not sitting in the doctors offices when they were in this situation..... but I know that the condition stemmed from an abnormality in the physical make - up of the heart and its surrounding anatomy. They were told that once his mother stopped supplying oxygen then the heart would NOT be able to support his body and it was not a case where a heart transplant was an option. He was able to have a few operation on his heart once he was born... which prolonged his life DRASTICALLY and made it so that he was like most other children... until his heart could no longer keep going. He passed away one week ago very peacefully and very happy!

Obviously, since he was NOT my child, I don't have documentation, however there is no reason to doubt any it. They had MANY MANY doctors over the years, and each and every time, they were told the same information.
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  #17  
October 31st, 2006, 12:32 PM
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hugs for his family, I am sure the trying years were all worth it. I would have done the same thing.
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  #18  
October 31st, 2006, 12:35 PM
kittycat's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
I would always carry baby to term .... does it REALLY matter if baby dies today or in 4 months at birth. At least at death at birth would be a natural death.

I didn't claim that the baby with no brain and a baby with a fatal heart condition were the same... I simply answered the question...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Quote:
If there is a 0% chance that the baby will survive, does that impact or change your views on abortion?[/b]
and my answer is No... I still would not be in favor of abortion. Besides, doctors don't know everything...and while missing half a brain is probably not an incorrect diagnosis.... who am I to decide when the child should die?
[/b][/quote]
A child without a brain is already dead. All you're carrying is a growing mass, in the shape of a child that ill never be, at that point. Your body allows that child to survive, and without it - it ceases to exist. It's not feeling pain, emotion, just uncontrolled reflex. There is no child to save, it's already passed on before it ever became.

That might sound harsh, but that's the sad reality of it. I would never look down on a woman for terminating under these circumstances. There's no reason to undergo the emotional trauma on her or her family, just to be a martyr to someone's cause.
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  #20  
October 31st, 2006, 01:44 PM
dinamommy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Just wanted to add that a woman in my old DDC recently went to the ER for some concerns, had an ultrasound, and was told that her child lacked a brain. She had another ultrasound from her OBGYN that showed that the baby did, in fact, have a brain. You never know what kind of mistakes a medical professional will make.
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