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Abortion Debate

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  #1  
December 29th, 2006, 06:33 AM
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If you believe abortion is wrong, do you feel there should be punishment for getting one. Let's say two situations. One where abortion itself is illegal and one where certain abortions are illegal. In either case wh should be punished if an illegal abortion happens and how should they be?
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  #2  
December 29th, 2006, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
If you believe abortion is wrong, do you feel there should be punishment for getting one. Let's say two situations. One where abortion itself is illegal and one where certain abortions are illegal. In either case wh should be punished if an illegal abortion happens and how should they be?[/b]
You can't go around punishing every woman who has an abortion. How would such a thing be policed or enforced? Free from government mandated weekly blood and urine tests on every woman in her child bearing years.....there wouldn't be a way for the government to track who had an abortion, who miscarried, or which woman obtained an abortion or miscarried. That being said what do you mean when you say abortion becomes illegal? Do you mean medical abortion? Surgical abortion? BC pills that are "believed" to cause the death of a fertilized embro in it's very earliest stages?(yes do hold this oppinion...I however am not one of them). Do you mean a wire hanger, self mutulation, herbs, high doses of alcohol while pregnant? Do you define abortion as any act, medical, surgical, natural, or induced that ends the life of a fetus? I just think it is silly to even attempt to police such a thing.
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  #3  
December 29th, 2006, 12:21 PM
dinamommy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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What about punishing doctors who are performing many abortions for non-medical reasons? There is a doctor in Kansas who had performed thousands and thousands of abortions and has cited the medical reason as depression of the mother. Is that really a reason to abort a baby? Many of his abortions have been done late-term. He obviously makes lots and lots of money off of his "procedures", so that's why he is willing to do them at any stage in a pregnancy even if the mom isn't in danger or hasn't been raped. IMO, this guy should have his medical liscence taken away and criminal charges should even be looked into. I believe he is being investigated.
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  #4  
December 29th, 2006, 12:55 PM
mrobinson
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What about punishing doctors who are performing many abortions for non-medical reasons? There is a doctor in Kansas who had performed thousands and thousands of abortions and has cited the medical reason as depression of the mother. Is that really a reason to abort a baby? Many of his abortions have been done late-term. He obviously makes lots and lots of money off of his "procedures", so that's why he is willing to do them at any stage in a pregnancy even if the mom isn't in danger or hasn't been raped. IMO, this guy should have his medical liscence taken away and criminal charges should even be looked into. I believe he is being investigated.[/b]
http://www.drtiller.com/

This is one of the few late term abortion clinics in the US. That's why he has performed so many. He's helping women, not hurting. By the way, if you feel depression isn't a good enough reason, do you think by just telling the women that, they'll magically snap out of it? If a woman and her doctor have decided to have a late term abortion, that is none of our business.

The reason why he is being investigated is because people assume control over someone else's body.
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  #5  
December 29th, 2006, 01:06 PM
dinamommy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I'm sorry, but that's just bull. There are MANY other ways to deal with depression in pregnancy than to have a late-term abortion. He is being totally unethical and is just using that "diagnosis" in order to get more money. IMO, he is NOT helping women by performing these late-term abortions. Everyone would be better off for them to just have the baby at that point.

His site says that Kansas law allows for late-term (post viability) abortions only if the mother's health is in danger. By siting depression as a danger to a mother's health, he is breaking the law.
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  #6  
December 29th, 2006, 01:18 PM
mrobinson
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I'm sorry, but that's just bull. There are MANY other ways to deal with depression in pregnancy than to have a late-term abortion. He is being totally unethical and is just using that "diagnosis" in order to get more money. IMO, he is NOT helping women by performing these late-term abortions. Everyone would be better off for them to just have the baby at that point.

His site says that Kansas law allows for late-term (post viability) abortions only if the mother's health is in danger. By siting depression as a danger to a mother's health, he is breaking the law.[/b]
Many women have to travel across the country to get one.. There are many who can't. It's not unethical when it's for women's health.
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  #7  
December 29th, 2006, 01:19 PM
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How do they determine "health in danger" is there an accepted list of things? but what about people who smaller things can be bigger becuase of underlying conditions? are those accounted for i wonder. but also how do reasons get out...isnt there privacy law. or if they can be released maybe there is more personal info that goes with the "depression" that maybe cant be?
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  #8  
December 29th, 2006, 01:23 PM
dinamommy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Is a pregnancy really threatening the life of a woman if she is depressed? There are things you can take and counseling you can get to fight depression. An abortion is a VERY extreme form of fighting depression.
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  #9  
December 29th, 2006, 01:26 PM
mrobinson
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Is a pregnancy really threatening the life of a woman if she is depressed? There are things you can take and counseling you can get to fight depression. An abortion is a VERY extreme form of fighting depression.[/b]
I don't know, I would never minalize thoughts of suicide or homicide.. Women being pregnant sets off so many hormones and upsets the chemical balance of her mind. I would never wish forcing a depressed, pregnant woman to have a baby when her mental health is in upheaval.
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  #10  
December 29th, 2006, 01:27 PM
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Is a pregnancy really threatening the life of a woman if she is depressed? There are things you can take and counseling you can get to fight depression. An abortion is a VERY extreme form of fighting depression.[/b]
I defintiely understand. I guess I cant wrap my mind around why depression would be the reason and how it all got out.
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  #11  
December 29th, 2006, 01:28 PM
dinamommy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Yes, but don't you agree that there are much less invasive approaches to handling depression. What if this doctor is performing abortions on mentally unstable women who later regret what they did b/c they weren't in their right mind when they had it done? That is definitely something to think about. This man is being so irresponsible! Ohhhhh! It just makes me mad!
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  #12  
December 29th, 2006, 01:35 PM
irishxrose
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Yes, but the attorney who bullied his way into getting the records has just violated the privacy of EVERY woman who ever got an abortion there. THAT makes ME sick.

And I am mentally ill. I can tell you that if they feel they cannot take care of a child, no one has the right to tell them they have to. I am struggling enough as is, and I am on medication. It is so hard... and for you to even want to make them go through a pregnancy they don't want just sickens me. You have no idea what it's like.
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  #13  
December 29th, 2006, 01:42 PM
dinamommy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I'm sorry that I sicken you. It sickens me that viable babies are being killed for reasons like this! Why is it that you think this is the only alternative??? Oh, and how do you know that I've never had a bout with depression or mental illness. That is very presumtuous of you. FYI, mental health is something I take very seriously. My grandpa shot himself in the head b/c of depression and alcoholism and my mom contemplated suicide and was SEVERLY depressed for most of my childhood. I was acutally depressed in my 2nd trimester when I was pregnant with Ty. I know it is absolutely terrible, but I wish I would have known that there are things to help out there. I know that it is hard to deal with, but there are other alternatives than this.
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  #14  
December 29th, 2006, 03:12 PM
irishxrose
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I'm sorry that I sicken you. It sickens me that viable babies are being killed for reasons like this! Why is it that you think this is the only alternative??? Oh, and how do you know that I've never had a bout with depression or mental illness. That is very presumtuous of you. FYI, mental health is something I take very seriously. My grandpa shot himself in the head b/c of depression and alcoholism and my mom contemplated suicide and was SEVERLY depressed for most of my childhood. I was acutally depressed in my 2nd trimester when I was pregnant with Ty. I know it is absolutely terrible, but I wish I would have known that there are things to help out there. I know that it is hard to deal with, but there are other alternatives than this.[/b]
What alternatives do you suggest? Medication? Most anti-depressants and bi-polar medication can harm a fetus. Adoption? Some women do not want to go through a pregnancy they don't want. It is their business, not yours. I won't tell you how many children you can or can't have, just like you can't force me to have a child I don't want.

ETA: You don't sicken me. I very much respect your opinion, I'm just having a very stressful day and when I'm stressed I tend to lash out. I'm sorry for presuming anything, or making it seem like I was being a ******.
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  #16  
December 30th, 2006, 12:56 AM
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If you believe abortion is wrong, do you feel there should be punishment for getting one. Let's say two situations. One where abortion itself is illegal and one where certain abortions are illegal. In either case wh should be punished if an illegal abortion happens and how should they be?[/b]
I do believe abortion is wrong - but I do not feel laws are the answer - whether through making it illegal or through punishments, etc. I think there are MUCH better ways to prevent them from happening at all.
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  #17  
December 30th, 2006, 01:09 AM
chlodoll
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Is a pregnancy really threatening the life of a woman if she is depressed? There are things you can take and counseling you can get to fight depression. An abortion is a VERY extreme form of fighting depression.[/b]
Well if she kills herself the pregnancy was life threatening. And now you have a dead woman and a dead fetus. I think its better if atleast one of them lives.
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  #18  
December 30th, 2006, 09:33 AM
dinamommy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I TOTALLY understand that! BUT, these are viable babies that he is killing-----don't you see that? As for what Andrika said about meds being harmful to a fetus, I know about the warning that just came out about Paxil, but many doctors are allowing women who need anti-depressants to stay on them while they are pregnant. My friend was on Paxil with both of her pregnancies and her boys are perfectly healthy. All I am saying is that abortion is an EXTREME measure to help someone's depression. There ARE other alternatives.

I also wanted to point out that on Dr. Tiller's website, it says that they will perform elective late-term abortions. This means that he will perform late-term abortions even if there is NO medical reason to do it. Is this also okay?

BTW, thank you for clarifying that you were just having a bad day yesterday, Andrika. I just thought maybe you hated my guts!
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  #20  
December 30th, 2006, 10:12 AM
dinamommy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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......and isn't that illegal?
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