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I am pro-choice because I have no other choice


Abortion Debate

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  #1  
February 5th, 2007, 04:28 PM
kadydid
Guest
Posts: n/a
The way I see it there really is no point in debating abortion. It is going to happen with or without our approval.
What is really being debated IMO is whether or not women should be safe or not.

Abortions are probably older than recorded history. They are never going to go away, even if they are made illegal. Rich women will (from this era at least) always have safe abortions. Less fortunate women will not.

Why did they make abortion legal in the first place? Were people getting weary of finding their daughters bleeding to death? In other countries where abortions are mostly illegal women still have them. They just end up either dead or going to the hospital. According to the WPF 68,000 deaths each year are from women in countries where abortion is not legal, yet they chose one anyway.

Making abortions unsafe for women is not the answer.
  #2  
February 5th, 2007, 04:37 PM
mrobinson
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  #3  
February 5th, 2007, 04:40 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Posts: 2,646
Very well put!
__________________

<span style="color:#A0522D">"No my windows aren't dirty ....that's my boxers nose artwork!"</span>
  #5  
February 5th, 2007, 05:13 PM
kadydid
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
And I feel like I have no other choice either. I would be sacraficing my integrity by accepting abortion and just "accept" the fact that it is necessary. It isn't necessary. There are much better alternatives...as a matter of fact, it is not an alternative IMO anyway. [/b]
But your not getting it CeCe, while there may be better alternatives abortion is not going to go away. All your doing is debating if women should be safe or not while doing so.

Taking safe abortions away from women is not going to stop abortions.

http://www.wpf.org/reproductive_rights_article/facts

Throughout the world 19 million unsafe abortions happen every year.

If making them illegal actually stopped abortions that would be one thing, but they don't.
  #6  
February 5th, 2007, 05:41 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 12,330
Who said the definition of pro-life is the illegalizing of abortion? I know the group called "pro-life" backs that position...but in fact you can believe in the sanctity of the unborn without believing laws are the way to go. I am pro-life, but I have no interest in changing laws, only changing hearts.
__________________
B - Crazy momma to my two boys
We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




  #8  
February 5th, 2007, 06:49 PM
Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,120
Quote:
Who said the definition of pro-life is the illegalizing of abortion? I know the group called "pro-life" backs that position...but in fact you can believe in the sanctity of the unborn without believing laws are the way to go. I am pro-life, but I have no interest in changing laws, only changing hearts.[/b]
wow....thank you I finally figured out what I am!
__________________
Those who love me know how to reach me...it's been real ladies, peace and love!!
  #9  
February 5th, 2007, 06:49 PM
kadydid
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Who said the definition of pro-life is the illegalizing of abortion? I know the group called "pro-life" backs that position...but in fact you can believe in the sanctity of the unborn without believing laws are the way to go. I am pro-life, but I have no interest in changing laws, only changing hearts.[/b]
By the same definition, I too would be pro life.

According to answers.com Pro life means...

Advocating full legal protection of human embryos or fetuses, especially by opposing legalized abortion.

Quote:
I understand that Kady...but I still would never say "abortion should be free to all, available to all, for whatever reason, because it is a woman's right and they're going to do it anyway".I DO think that education is part of the answer. Let people know the risks associated with back alley abortions. Educate on birth control and so on and so forth.

I do agree with Beckie when it comes to changing hearts over laws, because, overall...if their hearts are enlightened, then the laws wouldn't stand for anything anyway...[/b]

I think there are many ways that we can lower the amount of abortions. Making them illegal will never fix the problem though.

CeCe are you saying that a woman should have the legal right to choose or not? I am confused
  #10  
February 5th, 2007, 07:00 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 12,330
Quote:
Quote:
Who said the definition of pro-life is the illegalizing of abortion? I know the group called "pro-life" backs that position...but in fact you can believe in the sanctity of the unborn without believing laws are the way to go. I am pro-life, but I have no interest in changing laws, only changing hearts.[/b]
By the same definition, I too would be pro life.

According to answers.com Pro life means...

Advocating full legal protection of human embryos or fetuses, especially by opposing legalized abortion.

Quote:
I understand that Kady...but I still would never say "abortion should be free to all, available to all, for whatever reason, because it is a woman's right and they're going to do it anyway".I DO think that education is part of the answer. Let people know the risks associated with back alley abortions. Educate on birth control and so on and so forth.

I do agree with Beckie when it comes to changing hearts over laws, because, overall...if their hearts are enlightened, then the laws wouldn't stand for anything anyway...[/b]

I think there are many ways that we can lower the amount of abortions. Making them illegal will never fix the problem though.

CeCe are you saying that a woman should have the legal right to choose or not? I am confused
[/b]

No offense but I do not rely on answers.com to define me or tell me who I am. In order to call myself pro-choice I would personally have to support it as a good choice - and for me I cannot. I did look up the definition & still have to say I am closer to pro-life that pro-choice - but until you can come up with a better term - I call myself pro-life over pro-choice. I do not support the laws - I am just not so ignorant as to believe laws are the answer to every social problem.
__________________
B - Crazy momma to my two boys
We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




  #11  
February 5th, 2007, 07:57 PM
kadydid
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Who said the definition of pro-life is the illegalizing of abortion? I know the group called "pro-life" backs that position...but in fact you can believe in the sanctity of the unborn without believing laws are the way to go. I am pro-life, but I have no interest in changing laws, only changing hearts.[/b]
By the same definition, I too would be pro life.

According to answers.com Pro life means...

Advocating full legal protection of human embryos or fetuses, especially by opposing legalized abortion.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
<div class='quotemain'>I understand that Kady...but I still would never say "abortion should be free to all, available to all, for whatever reason, because it is a woman's right and they're going to do it anyway".I DO think that education is part of the answer. Let people know the risks associated with back alley abortions. Educate on birth control and so on and so forth.

I do agree with Beckie when it comes to changing hearts over laws, because, overall...if their hearts are enlightened, then the laws wouldn't stand for anything anyway...[/b]

I think there are many ways that we can lower the amount of abortions. Making them illegal will never fix the problem though.

CeCe are you saying that a woman should have the legal right to choose or not? I am confused
[/b][/quote]


No offense but I do not rely on answers.com to define me or tell me who I am. In order to call myself pro-choice I would personally have to support it as a good choice - and for me I cannot. I did look up the definition & still have to say I am closer to pro-life that pro-choice - but until you can come up with a better term - I call myself pro-life over pro-choice. I do not support the laws - I am just not so ignorant as to believe laws are the answer to every social problem.
[/b][/quote]
You are all over the board.

First you say,

I am pro-life, but I have no interest in changing laws, only changing hearts.

Then you say

I do not support the laws - I am just not so ignorant as to believe laws are the answer to every social problem.

So do you support the laws or not? Should women be able to continue to have legal abortions?

I need to know this before I comment anymore.


Also I was not the person who brought the term "pro-life" into question of what it actually means. But in general, most people associate that term with someone who would take away the legal choice to some extent away from women in general.

But more importantly pro choice, is for women having a legal choice. We can toss around definitions all day and twist them around to suit our own definition. But if you are for legal choice, you are pro choice IMHO. There really is no way to twist the term "pro-choice" it is what it is. "pro-choice" Whether or not you agree with the choice.

The term "pro-life" is misleading in general, and that is why I did not bring the words up.
  #12  
February 5th, 2007, 08:54 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 12,330
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(beck12 @ Feb 5 2007, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotemain'>
Who said the definition of pro-life is the illegalizing of abortion? I know the group called "pro-life" backs that position...but in fact you can believe in the sanctity of the unborn without believing laws are the way to go. I am pro-life, but I have no interest in changing laws, only changing hearts.[/b]
By the same definition, I too would be pro life.

According to answers.com Pro life means...

Advocating full legal protection of human embryos or fetuses, especially by opposing legalized abortion.

Quote:
I understand that Kady...but I still would never say "abortion should be free to all, available to all, for whatever reason, because it is a woman's right and they're going to do it anyway".I DO think that education is part of the answer. Let people know the risks associated with back alley abortions. Educate on birth control and so on and so forth.

I do agree with Beckie when it comes to changing hearts over laws, because, overall...if their hearts are enlightened, then the laws wouldn't stand for anything anyway...[/b]

I think there are many ways that we can lower the amount of abortions. Making them illegal will never fix the problem though.

CeCe are you saying that a woman should have the legal right to choose or not? I am confused
[/b]

No offense but I do not rely on answers.com to define me or tell me who I am. In order to call myself pro-choice I would personally have to support it as a good choice - and for me I cannot. I did look up the definition & still have to say I am closer to pro-life that pro-choice - but until you can come up with a better term - I call myself pro-life over pro-choice. I do not support the laws - I am just not so ignorant as to believe laws are the answer to every social problem.
[/b][/quote]
You are all over the board.

First you say,

I am pro-life, but I have no interest in changing laws, only changing hearts.

Then you say

I do not support the laws - I am just not so ignorant as to believe laws are the answer to every social problem.

So do you support the laws or not? Should women be able to continue to have legal abortions?

I need to know this before I comment anymore.


Also I was not the person who brought the term "pro-life" into question of what it actually means. But in general, most people associate that term with someone who would take away the legal choice to some extent away from women in general.

But more importantly pro choice, is for women having a legal choice. We can toss around definitions all day and twist them around to suit our own definition. But if you are for legal choice, you are pro choice IMHO. There really is no way to twist the term "pro-choice" it is what it is. "pro-choice" Whether or not you agree with the choice.

The term "pro-life" is misleading in general, and that is why I did not bring the words up.
[/b][/quote]
I should have clarified. I really am not all over the board - I have been consistent since the day I showed up on this board. I do not support the idea of changing laws to change society. I do not think gun laws make us safer - they just mean less law abiding citizens own them & criminals still buy them on the black market. I do not support allowing the government more access to personal info in order to give ourselves some false sense of being able to protect ourselves from possible infidels, and I do not think laws against abortion will change anything. That is what I meant by not supporting laws. I hope that clears it up.

In order to be pro-life all I personally feel I have to believe is that the baby has a right to live. I cannot make anyone else believe that way & I am smart enough to know that women will seek ways around laws & that can not only endanger her life, but end up with children that are severely damaged by a failed process. I am not trying to twist anything. In this polarized topic there is no middle group I can associate myself with & when asked I am closer to pro-life IMO than pro-choice. There is a huge difference to me between my personal idea of what my feelings would have to be in order to call myself pro-choice & where I actually feel on this. I am not sure why it seems confusing to anyone that I believe myself to be pro-life & yet I still won't picket & sign petitions. Is it perhaps that people have such a hard lined view of what it means to be pro-life that they can't understand my position? I can understand a pro-choice person being pro-choice even if they would never choose it - why can't someone being pro-life without being pro-legislation?

Wikipedia defines it as
Quote:
"Pro-Life is the self-description for those in North America and Great Britain who are of the general political opinion that abortion, embryonic stem cell research, human cloning and other issues regarding the sanctity of life are morally wrong and should be illegal in most cases."[/b]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro-Life

So I guess I align with most everything except that last 7 words. Seems like I agree with most of it.

On the other hand pro-choice is defined as
Quote:
advocating a woman's right to control her own body (especially her right to an induced abortion)[/b]
(from wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn)
I don't advocate ....

or
Quote:
Pro-Choice is a common self-description used by people who believe that the government should not outlaw abortion and believe that the choice of terminating pregnancy should be an option for a pregnant woman.[/b]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro-Choice
I can say I think it should be an option - I think making it not an option is not an answer.

If you got to know me better - we could really talk on these issues of life & sanctity & you would see I am not "conveniently" pro-life or partially "pro-life". It has been even a struggle in my own life, since the cause of my mc's could be "fixed" through IVF with PGD, but that requires destroying embryos that aren't perfect (once determined imperfect in ANY way, they would never be medically allowed to be implanted) & I cannot concede to that. It effectively would practically guarantee me a healthy baby - but I do not live by what "feels" good at the moment - I live by what I am at peace with & what conforms to my beliefs in the sanctity of life. In this case (referring to abortion) I feel that passing laws to make it illegal isn't the way to help the situation. Although I may understand the reasons someone may choose abortion & I do not feel anything anyone ever does in life gives me a right to judge them, I also do not feel it is "okay" or something I could say I would ever be really at peace with.
__________________
B - Crazy momma to my two boys
We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




  #13  
February 5th, 2007, 09:26 PM
kadydid
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kadydid @ Feb 5 2007, 08:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotemain'>
Quote:
Who said the definition of pro-life is the illegalizing of abortion? I know the group called "pro-life" backs that position...but in fact you can believe in the sanctity of the unborn without believing laws are the way to go. I am pro-life, but I have no interest in changing laws, only changing hearts.[/b]
By the same definition, I too would be pro life.

According to answers.com Pro life means...

Advocating full legal protection of human embryos or fetuses, especially by opposing legalized abortion.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
<div class='quotemain'>I understand that Kady...but I still would never say "abortion should be free to all, available to all, for whatever reason, because it is a woman's right and they're going to do it anyway".I DO think that education is part of the answer. Let people know the risks associated with back alley abortions. Educate on birth control and so on and so forth.

I do agree with Beckie when it comes to changing hearts over laws, because, overall...if their hearts are enlightened, then the laws wouldn't stand for anything anyway...[/b]

I think there are many ways that we can lower the amount of abortions. Making them illegal will never fix the problem though.

CeCe are you saying that a woman should have the legal right to choose or not? I am confused
[/b][/quote]


No offense but I do not rely on answers.com to define me or tell me who I am. In order to call myself pro-choice I would personally have to support it as a good choice - and for me I cannot. I did look up the definition & still have to say I am closer to pro-life that pro-choice - but until you can come up with a better term - I call myself pro-life over pro-choice. I do not support the laws - I am just not so ignorant as to believe laws are the answer to every social problem.
[/b][/quote]
You are all over the board.

First you say,

I am pro-life, but I have no interest in changing laws, only changing hearts.

Then you say

I do not support the laws - I am just not so ignorant as to believe laws are the answer to every social problem.

So do you support the laws or not? Should women be able to continue to have legal abortions?

I need to know this before I comment anymore.


Also I was not the person who brought the term "pro-life" into question of what it actually means. But in general, most people associate that term with someone who would take away the legal choice to some extent away from women in general.

But more importantly pro choice, is for women having a legal choice. We can toss around definitions all day and twist them around to suit our own definition. But if you are for legal choice, you are pro choice IMHO. There really is no way to twist the term "pro-choice" it is what it is. "pro-choice" Whether or not you agree with the choice.

The term "pro-life" is misleading in general, and that is why I did not bring the words up.
[/b][/quote]
I should have clarified. I really am not all over the board - I have been consistent since the day I showed up on this board. I do not support the idea of changing laws to change society. I do not think gun laws make us safer - they just mean less law abiding citizens own them & criminals still buy them on the black market. I do not support allowing the government more access to personal info in order to give ourselves some false sense of being able to protect ourselves from possible infidels, and I do not think laws against abortion will change anything. That is what I meant by not supporting laws. I hope that clears it up.

In order to be pro-life all I personally feel I have to believe is that the baby has a right to live. I cannot make anyone else believe that way & I am smart enough to know that women will seek ways around laws & that can not only endanger her life, but end up with children that are severely damaged by a failed process. I am not trying to twist anything. In this polarized topic there is no middle group I can associate myself with & when asked I am closer to pro-life IMO than pro-choice. There is a huge difference to me between my personal idea of what my feelings would have to be in order to call myself pro-choice & where I actually feel on this. I am not sure why it seems confusing to anyone that I believe myself to be pro-life & yet I still won't picket & sign petitions. Is it perhaps that people have such a hard lined view of what it means to be pro-life that they can't understand my position? I can understand a pro-choice person being pro-choice even if they would never choose it - why can't someone being pro-life without being pro-legislation?

Wikipedia defines it as
Quote:
"Pro-Life is the self-description for those in North America and Great Britain who are of the general political opinion that abortion, embryonic stem cell research, human cloning and other issues regarding the sanctity of life are morally wrong and should be illegal in most cases."[/b]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro-Life

So I guess I align with most everything except that last 7 words. Seems like I agree with most of it.

On the other hand pro-choice is defined as
Quote:
advocating a woman's right to control her own body (especially her right to an induced abortion)[/b]
(from wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn)
I don't advocate ....

or
Quote:
Pro-Choice is a common self-description used by people who believe that the government should not outlaw abortion and believe that the choice of terminating pregnancy should be an option for a pregnant woman.[/b]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro-Choice
I can say I think it should be an option - I think making it not an option is not an answer.

If you got to know me better - we could really talk on these issues of life & sanctity & you would see I am not "conveniently" pro-life or partially "pro-life". It has been even a struggle in my own life, since the cause of my mc's could be "fixed" through IVF with PGD, but that requires destroying embryos that aren't perfect (once determined imperfect in ANY way, they would never be medically allowed to be implanted) & I cannot concede to that. It effectively would practically guarantee me a healthy baby - but I do not live by what "feels" good at the moment - I live by what I am at peace with & what conforms to my beliefs in the sanctity of life. In this case (referring to abortion) I feel that passing laws to make it illegal isn't the way to help the situation. Although I may understand the reasons someone may choose abortion & I do not feel anything anyone ever does in life gives me a right to judge them, I also do not feel it is "okay" or something I could say I would ever be really at peace with.
[/b][/quote]
I don’t think you’re conveniently anything, I think I am just having a hard time getting your point. It seems to be a reoccurring thing with me today And Twisting was a bad choice of words on my part FTR. I just could not think of better words, if that makes any sense at all.
  #15  
February 5th, 2007, 11:25 PM
kadydid
Guest
Posts: n/a
Gotcha!

When my husband came home today I told him I was argumentative today and that he should probably avoid me because I am such a terrible biznitch Its almost as if my brain can not comprehend anything today. Plus my legs and arms are swollen. Something tells me aunt flo is coming to town.
  #17  
February 5th, 2007, 11:48 PM
kadydid
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Quote:
Gotcha!

When my husband came home today I told him I was argumentative today and that he should probably avoid me because I am such a terrible biznitch Its almost as if my brain can not comprehend anything today. Plus my legs and arms are swollen. Something tells me aunt flo is coming to town. [/b]
Yea, the witch made her stop by here today.
[/b]
LMAO (my husband just looked at me, cause I was laughing out loud!)
  #18  
February 6th, 2007, 03:26 AM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,469
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That's right. We'll never stop women from wanting an abortion. We can outlaw them. But there will still be underground clinics that will perform them. Not always in the safest cleanest environment. I watched a movie on HBO several years back of a teen wanting an abortion. It must of been illegal in her state as a teen to get one. So she ended up in one of those dirty underground clinics. Got a horrid sick and died. All from the unsanitary equipment they used to perform her abortion. I call myself a little of both ways. I would not get an abortion. But in the same will not tell some woman she shouldn't. That will have to be her choice to make. It wouldn't matter how much I say it's wrong and why it's wrong. If she wants the abortion bad enough. She's going to get it. So on the pro choice side of me. I would never get in the issue of trying to talk someone out of an abortion or physically attempt to stop them. Illegalizing abortion will just cause more problems. Women will die from getting a abortion from a underground clinic as well as that unborn child will die. If pro lifers are so against abortion. Think of what making them illegal will do. Not trying to start a heated debate here. Just stating my oppinion of the facts.
  #19  
February 6th, 2007, 08:21 AM
chloe82
Guest
Posts: n/a
Recognizing that people are going to do something no matter what isn't a good reason for making that something legal and having people accept it as ethically/morally ok. To me, being pro-life doesn't mean that I want women to bleed to death because I would rather that they have an unsafe, illegal abortion, it means that I wish people would respect a fetus as a human being and give it the same rights as other human beings, most notably the right to carry on living. It is flawed logic to say that becuase people are going to do it anyways, that we should just accept it and make it legal and ok in society. That's like saying, well, people are going to murder each other anyways (which is how many would define abortion), so we should make it a legal and safer process for those who wish to do so. I think it sucks (to put it very mildly, not to sound dismissive) when people have an abortion illegally and unsafely but I also think it sucks when people do it legally and safely. But saying, "people are going to do it anyways" doesn't automatically mean it should be allowed and accomadated. People are debating whether or not it is ethically acceptable, and therefore, should be legal or not. It's just not as black and white (and coldhearted) as the OP was making it sound.
  #20  
February 6th, 2007, 08:44 AM
mrobinson
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
People are debating whether or not it is ethically acceptable, and therefore, should be legal or not. It's just not as black and white (and coldhearted) as the OP was making it sound.[/b]
I find this last statement very interesting..

I have been trying to debate how we treat children and whether or not it's ethically acceptable.. Anyone can have a child and do with what they think is right ~ hence why laws on parenting are so needed.
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