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Do Selective Reductions = Abortions?


Abortion Debate

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  #1  
February 7th, 2007, 07:45 PM
traci_roo's Avatar Member
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I happened across this board and saw some very opinionated replies about the topic of abortion. My question is do you consider selective reduction in a higher order multiple pregnancy (triplets or more) an abortion? Would you consider it to be in the same category as an abortion or a type of abortion?

Just wondering what you ladies think on this one.
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  #2  
February 7th, 2007, 07:54 PM
Mega Super Mommy
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Posts: 3,496
According to all the bumper stickers I see, it is.

"Abortion stops a beating heart"

"Life begins at conception and ends at planned parenthood"


And this one on the neighbors car:

"It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish." -Mother Teresa"


So, according to prolife bumper sticker logic, reduction is abortion.
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  #3  
February 7th, 2007, 08:01 PM
chlodoll
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I saw on a baby storyy a woman had IVF and ended up with Quintuplets!!! The thought makes me want to barf!
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  #4  
February 7th, 2007, 08:13 PM
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Yup, it is abortion.
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  #6  
February 8th, 2007, 12:04 PM
chloe82
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How is it not???
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  #7  
February 8th, 2007, 12:09 PM
mrobinson
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Selective reduction is a perfect example where parents make a hard decision of abortion.. And it's a great time for others to judge that decision as murder, I guess.
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  #8  
February 8th, 2007, 12:21 PM
chloe82
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Quote:
Selective reduction is a perfect example where parents make a hard decision of abortion.. And it's a great time for others to judge that decision as murder, I guess.[/b]
When I said, "how is it not" I meant just that. I didn't mean to sound cold. I realize it is an extremely difficult position for parents to be put in....however, "selective reduction" is basically just a gentler term....but it is what it is. I realize the intent is to try and save the other babies and give them a better chance at a healthy life, but it doesn't change what the actual action is.
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  #9  
February 8th, 2007, 12:24 PM
mrobinson
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Many people feel abortion is murder and will use your example "it is what it is" as their reason to use the term murder instead of abortion. "Selective reduction" is what abortion is, a choice to help the quality of life of the family ~ their decision should be respected.
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  #11  
February 8th, 2007, 09:37 PM
kadydid
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Quote:
Many people feel abortion is murder and will use your example "it is what it is" as their reason to use the term murder instead of abortion. "Selective reduction" is what abortion is, a choice to help the quality of life of the family ~ their decision should be respected.[/b]
What’s it called if you have so many embryos/fetuses and they don’t survive the pregnancy because there were too many and the ones that did survive were born sick and will have problems the rest of their lives?

How a person could judge another for one choice or the other is beyond me.
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  #13  
February 8th, 2007, 11:13 PM
kadydid
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Why does it have to be someone judging someone else? Why can't it be simply not agreeing with the action? Why does it have to be "agree with it" or "judge and condemn"? <--which is the impression I always get when the word "judge/judging" is used.

I don't get it.[/b]
Quote:
Why does it have to be someone judging someone else? Why can't it be simply not agreeing with the action? Why does it have to be "agree with it" or "judge and condemn"? <--which is the impression I always get when the word "judge/judging" is used.

I don't get it.[/b]
I generally do not care about people judging we all have to judge things in order to get through our lives but this is a particular circumstance where one is clearly not better than other and in either direction there is devastation and heartache.

On one hand you have selecting to abort your embryo to save the lives and health of the others. But unfortunately that means aborting embryos. On the other hand if you have enough embryos you could potentially be setting some of your fetuses up for death and a life time of sickness.

In cases like these it is just plainly no one else’s business but the parents, because they and they alone have to be responsible for this decision. They and their children are the ones who have to live with the consequences of either action or inaction.

Say your friend has this situation. Her doctor tells her that she have 6 embryos but considering she is such a small framed person that there is no way they all can make it and the ones that are born will probably be born with severe problems due to being born underdeveloped. But that if she reduces her embryos to 3 that they have a 75% better chance of making it to at least 36 weeks and avoid more health problems.

Could you really show disapproval to your friend in either direction? Would you really want to advise anyone or be responsible for a decision that would affect the health of their children for possibly the rest of their lives?

This is one case where people are better off listening but not advising or judging IMO.

And notice how I said "for one choice or the other" some people believe that at least for themselves a reduction is the more ethical choice, probably me included. But I would never advise anyone on that decision because what is right for me is not necessarily right for another person. It is too personal.
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  #14  
February 9th, 2007, 09:08 AM
mommyKathyX3
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By implanting many embryos you take that chance of them all "sticking" and so you have to come to terms with that. Same with using fertility drugs. Its part of the risk. My SIL's SIL (do you follow that? lol) went through IV and decided they would never use more than 3 cause if they ALL took, she didnt want to chance more than a triplet birth. Its defintaly abortion.
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  #15  
February 9th, 2007, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
By implanting many embryos you take that chance of them all "sticking" and so you have to come to terms with that. Same with using fertility drugs. Its part of the risk. My SIL's SIL (do you follow that? lol) went through IV and decided they would never use more than 3 cause if they ALL took, she didnt want to chance more than a triplet birth. Its defintaly abortion.[/b]

Thats not really a safeguard nor does it guarintee triplets or less. Infact with fertility drugs there is an increased chance of an embryo splitting after implantation....so it is "possible" for those 3 embryo's to produce 6 fetuses. I'm just trying to point out that even the most PL well intentioned invitro patient can find them selves in situations where they will have to face SR. Its not really for anyone to judge.
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  #16  
February 9th, 2007, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Why does it have to be someone judging someone else? Why can't it be simply not agreeing with the action? Why does it have to be "agree with it" or "judge and condemn"? <--which is the impression I always get when the word "judge/judging" is used.

I don't get it.[/b]
Quote:
Why does it have to be someone judging someone else? Why can't it be simply not agreeing with the action? Why does it have to be "agree with it" or "judge and condemn"? <--which is the impression I always get when the word "judge/judging" is used.

I don't get it.[/b]
I generally do not care about people judging we all have to judge things in order to get through our lives but this is a particular circumstance where one is clearly not better than other and in either direction there is devastation and heartache.

On one hand you have selecting to abort your embryo to save the lives and health of the others. But unfortunately that means aborting embryos. On the other hand if you have enough embryos you could potentially be setting some of your fetuses up for death and a life time of sickness.

In cases like these it is just plainly no one else’s business but the parents, because they and they alone have to be responsible for this decision. They and their children are the ones who have to live with the consequences of either action or inaction.

Say your friend has this situation. Her doctor tells her that she have 6 embryos but considering she is such a small framed person that there is no way they all can make it and the ones that are born will probably be born with severe problems due to being born underdeveloped. But that if she reduces her embryos to 3 that they have a 75% better chance of making it to at least 36 weeks and avoid more health problems.

Could you really show disapproval to your friend in either direction? Would you really want to advise anyone or be responsible for a decision that would affect the health of their children for possibly the rest of their lives?

This is one case where people are better off listening but not advising or judging IMO.

And notice how I said "for one choice or the other" some people believe that at least for themselves a reduction is the more ethical choice, probably me included. But I would never advise anyone on that decision because what is right for me is not necessarily right for another person. It is too personal.
[/b]
Mommieof3 was just saying that although she doesn't agree with selective reductions for herself, that she doesn't judge anyone else for choosing one, either.

I agree that some things said in this thread imply that if you don't support selective reductions (for what ever reason) than you must be judging those who choose to have them. And that isn't the case.

Personally, I wouldn't want to be in the stituation of having to choose in the first place.

The question was "Is selective reduction considered abortion?" and my answer is yes, because you are technically aborting a life/fetus. I'm not saying that those who choose to have a selective reduction are evil or bad or anything like that, nor am I judging them in any way (and I don't think any of the other ladies were either). I'm just stating that technically a selective reduction is an abortion.

Jenny
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  #17  
February 9th, 2007, 05:26 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I have read all responses & am really confused where others are seeing judgment or saying it is no one's business.... I haven't seen anything saying they are bad people, etc...the question was is it abortion & it seems the "judgmental" answers are saying it is abortion.

No one asked if it's right - if we should allow it - etc...they asked if it's abortion. I honestly was stumped at first to read the question - because i am left wanting t ask - how is it not? To remove an otherwise viable fetus from the womb causing cessation of development or life is abortion...regardless of whether it is one unwanted fetus, or "extras" to reduce risk. They can give it whatever term they want to more specifically describe the pg scenario, but it is in fact choosing to abort a certain number of fetuses. That isn't a statement of judgment, or right or wrong - but i don't see how it is debatable when any Dr would tell you it is a type of abortion & only differs from typical abortions in that it is more delicate as they are trying to preserve some of the viable fetuses..
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  #18  
February 10th, 2007, 04:46 AM
chloe82
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Quote:
I have read all responses & am really confused where others are seeing judgment or saying it is no one's business.... I haven't seen anything saying they are bad people, etc...the question was is it abortion & it seems the "judgmental" answers are saying it is abortion.

No one asked if it's right - if we should allow it - etc...they asked if it's abortion. I honestly was stumped at first to read the question - because i am left wanting t ask - how is it not? To remove an otherwise viable fetus from the womb causing cessation of development or life is abortion...regardless of whether it is one unwanted fetus, or "extras" to reduce risk. They can give it whatever term they want to more specifically describe the pg scenario, but it is in fact choosing to abort a certain number of fetuses. That isn't a statement of judgment, or right or wrong - but i don't see how it is debatable when any Dr would tell you it is a type of abortion & only differs from typical abortions in that it is more delicate as they are trying to preserve some of the viable fetuses..[/b]

Ditto!
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  #19  
February 10th, 2007, 08:19 AM
kadydid
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Quote:
I have read all responses & am really confused where others are seeing judgment or saying it is no one's business.... I haven't seen anything saying they are bad people, etc...the question was is it abortion & it seems the "judgmental" answers are saying it is abortion. [/b]
Yet another case of someone taking a comment personally.
Quote:

What’s it called if you have so many embryos/fetuses and they don’t survive the pregnancy because there were too many and the ones that did survive were born sick and will have problems the rest of their lives?

How a person could judge another for one choice or the other is beyond me.
[/b]
My post was directed at NO one. In fact it talks about judging the person for either choice. CeCe took it personally. She asked me to clarify so I did. I have already explained my position I do not think we need to beat a dead horse.

And FTR I do think its an abortion. An abortion is an abortion. (since I never answered the OP) Saying that it is an abortion is not judgmental, thinking the person is bad for doing so is wrong and judgmental. In fact thinking she was bad for not terminating some of the fetuses to save the lives of the others would also be wrong and judgmental, because no one has to live with her choice but her and her family. As I have already clarified.
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  #20  
February 10th, 2007, 08:33 AM
kadydid
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Quote:
By implanting many embryos you take that chance of them all "sticking" and so you have to come to terms with that. Same with using fertility drugs. Its part of the risk. My SIL's SIL (do you follow that? lol) went through IV and decided they would never use more than 3 cause if they ALL took, she didnt want to chance more than a triplet birth. Its defintaly abortion.[/b]

Thats not really a safeguard nor does it guarintee triplets or less. Infact with fertility drugs there is an increased chance of an embryo splitting after implantation....so it is "possible" for those 3 embryo's to produce 6 fetuses. I'm just trying to point out that even the most PL well intentioned invitro patient can find them selves in situations where they will have to face SR. Its not really for anyone to judge.
[/b]
Ditto!!
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