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Abortion Debate

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  #1  
February 14th, 2007, 07:15 PM
*Firefly*'s Avatar Girlfriend and Blogger
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A friend of mine's dad is a paramedic.

He got called out yesterday to a womans home where her daughter had stabbed herself in the abdomen. When cleaning up the mess the woman was about to throw away what she tought was a blood stained rubberglvoe when she realised it was a self aborted fetus.

The girl had gotten pregnant performed her own abortion out of fear and then out of guilt stabbed herself in the abdomen.

Abortion should be more accessable. This is what happens when someone is scared and alone, and this is what would happen to mroe and more girls if abortion was made illegal. To any pro-lifers who believe that abortion should be made illegal - could you really live with girls like that one almost bleeding to death because she aborted her own baby?

This story really shocked me - This happened in a country where you can easily get an abortion which made it clear that the option is not being emphasised enough as an option (albeit it needs to be done very carefully) I guess what it really made me realise is that everyone is playing with lives here - a babies or the mothers and on this account I have to go with Michelle when I say that the mother is more important she is already here she is already someones daughter someones sister and she does NOT deserve to have her health put at risk because someone else says so.
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  #2  
February 14th, 2007, 07:24 PM
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There are a lot of access problems in the USA when it comes to abortion. Even if a girl manages to get past the stigma from friends/relatives/protesters/etc the next step is actually finding someone to do the procedure. It's not always easy or affordable. Our doctors won't/can't do them so that leaves clinics, which, in some places, are actually dangerous to try and get to! Then you have the fact that so many areas don't have anyone doing abortions...then you have transport issues...

Hillary Clinton has written a lot about "safe and rare" and the problems that the USA has with "safe" stemming mostly from access.
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  #3  
February 14th, 2007, 07:30 PM
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This is from an organization trying to get more hospitals to provide the procedure:

Quote:
Lack of access for non-urban women: Most abortions are performed in abortion clinics. However, clinics can only survive economically in heavily populated and urban areas. 86% of all counties and 95% of all rural counties in the United States have no abortion services at all. For rural and non-urban women, hospitals are often the only resource available. Nine out of ten abortion providers are now located in metropolitan areas, although 36% of the nation's 320 metropolitan areas have no known abortion provider. The uneven geographic distribution of abortion services means that 25% of women seeking abortions must travel more than 50 miles from home.

Lack of access for poor women: Many women who need abortions cannot afford them. The Hyde Amendment, which prohibits federal Medicaid funding for abortions except in cases of life endangerment of the pregnant woman, has been passed by Congress every year since 1976. Most states have followed the federal precedent, and currently only fourteen states fund abortions.
Many low-income women get their health care from hospitals, not from private providers. Hospital services are an important resource for low-income women because in many states laws require non-profit and for-profit hospitals to offer free care, and some states have public hospitals which provide a safety net for uninsured patients. Also, hospitals accept Medicaid patients in states that do allow use of Medicaid funds for abortion, while many clinics do not.[/b]
link

you can read the actual study about abortion access on the guttmacher site or lots of others I think reproduce it. I see it quoted a lot.
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  #4  
February 14th, 2007, 07:36 PM
*Firefly*'s Avatar Girlfriend and Blogger
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It jsut really makes me mad you know?
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Now I believe in grace and choice,
And I know perhaps my heart is farce,
But I値l be born without a mask
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  #5  
February 14th, 2007, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
It jsut really makes me mad you know?[/b]
Yes, I totally understand. I think things are going to change now that the balance of power in this country has changed. The red shot down a couple of laws that dealt with teen, unplanned, and unwanted pregnancies, but now that they are no longer the majority, more of these may have a chance of passing.
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  #6  
February 14th, 2007, 08:17 PM
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I know that in the US abortion is treated very differently to here in that is is legal all over the English governed part of the uk. If I was PG I could easily get an abortion andit would be free. What makes me sad is there are girls out there almost dying because they have NO knowledge of their options and what to doand where to go
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And I know perhaps my heart is farce,
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  #7  
February 15th, 2007, 12:06 PM
mrobinson
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Hallelujah for this thread and the insight here..
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  #8  
February 15th, 2007, 12:13 PM
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I didn't realize you were not from the states 4tinybabyangels! I will try and find some info on availability in the UK.
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  #10  
February 15th, 2007, 01:00 PM
mrobinson
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Quote:
It's very very sad. But I still don't agree with abortion. And I never will. I don't think advocating for abortion solves anything. She should have had more support, love and understanding, but she didn't need the abortion; which is obvious. Otherwise, she wouldn't have stabbed herself in the stomach. I'm sure she would've done something similar if she had a "regular" abortion. If nothing else, she would've carried the guilt for the rest of her life. So abortion never solves anything. But support, love and understanding do.

It makes me very sad, but it doesn't make me agree with abortion. And it doesn't make me want to go out and advocate it.[/b]
In one breathe you advocate for support, love and understanding.. Do you accept that there will always be people, specifically women, that will never have support, love nor understanding?
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  #12  
February 15th, 2007, 01:09 PM
mrobinson
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That's a shame that other women are not only not allowed love, support, nor understanding but also have the negative stigma associated with abortion because of a lack of understanding..
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  #13  
February 15th, 2007, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
I still do not believe that abortion solves anything[/b]

I don't mean to sound horrible, but I believe that abortion solves some problems. I want to start a thread on this but I feel like it would really upset people, and that would not be my intention.
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  #14  
February 15th, 2007, 01:14 PM
mrobinson
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Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Quote:
I still do not believe that abortion solves anything[/b]
I don't mean to sound horrible, but I believe that abortion solves some problems. I want to start a thread on this but I feel like it would really upset people, and that would not be my intention.
[/b][/quote]
I know how you feel.. I should pm you because I do see it as a problem solver.. I know many pro-life people would say, how can you see a baby as a problem, but there are so many people who don't have the luxeries we do.
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  #15  
February 15th, 2007, 01:44 PM
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I have some pictures to this effect that i want to show once we pick them up. i hope they came out well, there wasn't a lot of good light, maybe I will do the thread then.
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  #16  
February 15th, 2007, 03:29 PM
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So cece would you rather girls almsot died because they just didnt know what in the hell to do? YOUR example is not applicable here. These girlsare 14/15 and this is the ONLY way out they can see... your threatening TWO lives... not just one.

Threatening ONE is bad enough but TWO thats just unforgivable.


It doesnt make ME agree with abortion either. I never said it was right. But I would MUCH rather that girl had a SAFE procedure and counselling rather than ending up in the state she did. NO ONE deserves that. NO ONE should ever be that scared and alone and you might not want to accept it because its not acceptable but thats the way it is that is how the world turns. Not everyone has the strength to go through with a pregnancy at 14/15. Not every 15 year old wants to say to their mum "I'm pregnant" out of fear of teir parents rejection and dissaproval... Unwanted pregnancy can be lowered by decent sex ed and what would help in incidence where pregnancy does occur is for parents not to completely lose their heads.... easier said than done, but if that girl felt she could have gone to her mother then I am sure this tragedy would never have happened.
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Cause I know my weakness, know my voice,
Now I believe in grace and choice,
And I know perhaps my heart is farce,
But I値l be born without a mask
~ Babel, Mumford & Sons



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  #18  
February 16th, 2007, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
So cece would you rather girls almsot died because they just didnt know what in the hell to do? YOUR example is not applicable here. These girlsare 14/15 and this is the ONLY way out they can see... your threatening TWO lives... not just one.

Threatening ONE is bad enough but TWO thats just unforgivable.


It doesnt make ME agree with abortion either. I never said it was right. But I would MUCH rather that girl had a SAFE procedure and counselling rather than ending up in the state she did. NO ONE deserves that. NO ONE should ever be that scared and alone and you might not want to accept it because its not acceptable but thats the way it is that is how the world turns. Not everyone has the strength to go through with a pregnancy at 14/15. Not every 15 year old wants to say to their mum "I'm pregnant" out of fear of teir parents rejection and dissaproval... Unwanted pregnancy can be lowered by decent sex ed and what would help in incidence where pregnancy does occur is for parents not to completely lose their heads.... easier said than done, but if that girl felt she could have gone to her mother then I am sure this tragedy would never have happened.[/b]
Elllie, you must have missed the part where I said that they need love, support, and understanding. It isn't the only way (and we all know that there are options...and by 'all' I mean the people here debating, not the girl in this example); if we could only REACH this girl, then she would see (and know) that that ISN'T the only way "out".

Again, two wrongs does NOT make a right. If you don't agree with it, then why the heck ADVOCATE it? You must agree with it to a certain extent Ellie, or you wouldn't ADVOCATE it. Kwim? I can't and I won't ever advocate abortion. It is not acceptable. It does not solve anything. It perpetuates the hurt.

I also wish that there wasn't a stigma out there. Like I've always said, people need to start helping and stop judging. Just because I don't agree with it, and find it to be wrong, doesn't mean that I judge these girls/women to be awful, horrible human beings who deserve to go to hell. The ACT itself, is what I am strongly against.

I don't accept that abortion (i.e. the killing [yes, killing] of a child [or potential child, or fetus, baby, whatever you are comfortable with]) is ever for the "good". It isn't and it never will be. Killing is never the answer. Even in self-defense (and I most certainly wouldn't "blame" anyone in this predicament), I am sure that those who killed in that situation deal with guilt, if not for the actual person killed, then for the family, children, etc. of that person killed. So...killing will always perpetuate hurt.
[/b]
No I don't agree with it but I am not (not sure what the right word is here)... enough to think that making abortion illegal is the answer because then things like the OP happen and to me that is FAR WORSE. If your going to play with life then only play with one and not two, KWIM?

If Sex ed was better if Parents talked more to their kids then abortion would lower - the sad fact is sex ed isn't what it should be, so much so that that girl didn't have a clue what to do when she was pregnant, who to tell or who to go to.

Abortion will ALWAYS happen. Abortion should ALWAYS be a womans choice. I'm not "agreeing" wth the murder of babies I'm talknig about the SAFETY of the people that do want them.
To me abortion is quite simply a case of "You want an abortion? Sure off you go" and "You don't want one? Ok cool congrats on being pregnant" It isn't MY postion, infact it isn't ANYONES position to say "you can't do this with your body". I can't make that choice for anyone. What I CAN do is fight for more information to be given for teens to be better educated to give them a better chance at making the right choice for them.
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Cause I know my weakness, know my voice,
Now I believe in grace and choice,
And I know perhaps my heart is farce,
But I値l be born without a mask
~ Babel, Mumford & Sons



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  #19  
February 16th, 2007, 06:26 AM
donomama
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Quote:
The girl had gotten pregnant performed her own abortion out of fear and then out of guilt stabbed herself in the abdomen.[/b]
Yes, this is a horribly sad story. It seems to me, though, that it is the guilt of the abortion that caused her to stab herself in the stomach. Do you think she wouldn't have felt guilt whether or not she got her abortion in a safe clinic?


Quote:
Abortion should be more accessable.

This happened in a country where you can easily get an abortion which made it clear that the option is not being emphasised enough as an option[/b]
These 2 quotes really frighten me as a prolifer. Do you really think that we should be teaching our kids "Abortion is always an option?" I think this would 1) increase the number of abortion. I am against nearly all abortion, but I know that isn't going to happen, so why can't we concentrate on decreasing the number of abortions? I'm sorry, but telling kids in sex education classes that they can always get an abortion will not do this. 2) I think it will increase the incidence of unprotected sex among teens. Kids don't think things through, they don't think about what's going to happen tomorrow. If they are constantly told that abortion will always be an option to help them out when they get into trouble. Abortion should always be a last resort, not a first resort, which I think some kids may view it as.


This may sound harsh, but I blame the mother in this situation. She should have had a more open line of communication with her daughter.
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  #20  
February 16th, 2007, 06:28 AM
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What a horrifying story This is why I will always be pro-choice. The option needs to be there. I am not trying to stir up trouble but my question is, if abortion is free in the UK, why would she perform her own abortion?
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