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Abortion Debate

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View Poll Results: Prolife or Prochoice?
Prochoice - I support other's right to choose under any circumstance, and I may also have one under any circumstance. 8 13.56%
Prochoice - I support other's right to choose under any circumstance, but I would consider it only in certain circumstances: loss of job/significant other, loss of support, rape, incest, medical issues (to either mother or baby), safety, etc. 7 11.86%
Prochoice - I support other's right to choose for any circumstance, but I would be limited to circumstances of rape, incest, and/or medical issues to consider it for myself. 11 18.64%
Prochoice - I support other's right to choose only in rape, incest, and/or medical issues, and these would also have to be the only criteria for me considering abortion for myself. 1 1.69%
Prochoice - I support other's right to choose for all circumstances, but I would not consider it for myself under any circumstance. 5 8.47%
Prolife - I support other's right to choose under all circumstances, but I would not consider having one unless under cases of rape, incest, and/or medical issues. 4 6.78%
Prolife - I support the right to choose under certain circumstances (such as in option #2), and the same for me personally. 0 0%
Prolife - I support other's right to choose ONLY under cases of rape, incest and/or medical issues, and the same for me personally. 5 8.47%
Prolife - I do not support other's right to choose under any circumstance, and the same for me personally. 13 22.03%
Undecided and/or neither. 0 0%
Other (please explain). 5 8.47%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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  #2  
February 17th, 2007, 05:05 PM
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Again I am not sure I would be one or two because there may be a non- "big" issue out there that, under that circumstance, I would get an abortion. So I went with #2 because I saw that as being a choice wherein I would support all abortions for whatever reason for others. For myself, I would get an abortion if the circumstance was "big/important" TO ME (make sense?- so it would be my definition of safety, my definition of needing more support, etc).

I saw choice two as including the idea that "if it were an important issue to me, I may get an abortion for that reason." and my reason doesn't have to fit into a certain hole. But its also not number 1, which kinda implies that I would get one for any issue under the sun.
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  #3  
February 17th, 2007, 05:05 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar Aiming for mediocrity
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I am so confused, options 6 and 7 are throwing me off.

How can you be pro-life and support the right to choose. If you support the choice you are pro-choice, not pro-life. To state otherwise, would imply that pro-choice is anti-life, entirely not the case.
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  #4  
February 17th, 2007, 05:32 PM
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I chose option 5. I couldn't imagine for myself having (and wouldn't have) an abortion under any circumstance, even if the baby was afflicted with a genetic abnormality, or even if I were raped. And I feel very strongly about that. But, I don't feel it's my place to mandate whether abortions should be legal or not, nor do I feel it's my place or right to judge someone who feels differently.
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  #5  
February 17th, 2007, 05:41 PM
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Prochoice - I support other's right to choose for all circumstances, but I would not consider it for myself under any circumstance.
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  #7  
February 17th, 2007, 05:52 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar Aiming for mediocrity
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Quote:
Quote:
I am so confused, options 6 and 7 are throwing me off.

How can you be pro-life and support the right to choose. If you support the choice you are pro-choice, not pro-life. To state otherwise, would imply that pro-choice is anti-life, entirely not the case.[/b]
I guess some people out there still consider themselves prolife, even though they do not support the illegalization of abortion (which, IMO I guess, is supporting the right to choose).
[/b]
I think everyone is pro-life in that instance. I am not anti-life, because I support a woman's right to choose, KWIM. The line between pro-life and pro-choice seperates those that support legislation banning abortion and those that do not.
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  #8  
February 17th, 2007, 05:58 PM
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Prochoice - I support other's right to choose for any circumstance, but I would be limited to circumstances of rape, incest, and/or medical issues to consider it for myself.

Thats me.

I'm not-anti life either cece you know what I'm for - better education and support networks. To me banning abortion just isn't the answer.
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  #10  
February 17th, 2007, 06:20 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar Aiming for mediocrity
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Quote:
I never used the word antilife y'all. I simply stated that some see themselves as prolife, even though they are really prochoice...i.e. supporting the choice of abortion.

I agree with Stacey. The line between prolife and prochoice is simply the legalization of abortion. One side is against (prolife), while one side is for (prochoice).

I was just trying to make everyone happy! lol. Because if I simply just put 'prochoice' as supporting the choice, and not also 'prolife' (since again, some people still consider themselves prolife, even though they support the choice), there would be a discrepancy (sp?).

.....[/b]
Hey, you can't make all of the people happy all of the time. And, I know you didn't use the term anti-life, it is just the implication that comes with the idea that someone can be pro-life and yet still support the right to abortion, KWIM?

To all of you fence sitters: You can't have your cake and eat it too and err on the side of caution or religion, or whatever on this topic. If you support a legislative ban on all abortions, you are pro-life. If you support a woman's right to choose, you are pro-choice. Whether or not you would do it yourself is not the issue, do you feel the need to criminalize abortion? There really is no middle ground, IMO, you are one or the other.
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  #12  
February 17th, 2007, 08:44 PM
donomama
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I voted "other." I am prolife and I support other's right to choose ONLY under cases of rape, incest and/or medical issues, but I would personally never have one, even if it were the result of a rape.
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  #14  
February 17th, 2007, 10:18 PM
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Prochoice - I support other's right to choose under any circumstance, and I may also have one under any circumstance.


Quote:
Dude...my head hurts. LMAO. If I didn't get everyone here...man...I am going to bang my head on the wall!!![/b]
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  #16  
February 17th, 2007, 11:27 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
To all of you fence sitters: You can't have your cake and eat it too and err on the side of caution or religion, or whatever on this topic. If you support a legislative ban on all abortions, you are pro-life. If you support a woman's right to choose, you are pro-choice. Whether or not you would do it yourself is not the issue, do you feel the need to criminalize abortion? There really is no middle ground, IMO, you are one or the other.[/b]
I realize in your opinion it is black & white, but not everyone sees it that way. I am not sure why it is so hard for people to accept that not every person fits into one side or the other under the typical definition. There is a difference between supporting a particular choice/law & believing taking that choice away (or changing laws) is futile. I am anti-abortion then I guess - does that somehow make it easier to understand? I do not "support" the right to choose - I believe trying to change laws is the MOST ineffective way to handle the issue. In order to call myself pro-choice I personally feel that I would actually have to believe it is a viable choice for others...and to me it isn't. That doesn't change the fact that I think making it illegal would only complicate things further & not be in the best interest of actually changing anything for the better. To me changing laws would still not address the underlying problem of unwanted pg's - which in & of itself is not an abortion issue - it is an education & contraception issue. I would rather see the money, time & energy spent on abortion wars going to that.

On a side note - just because I think it isn't a viable choice has nothing to do with judging the person. I have many friends & family that believe & live differently than me & make choices that I completely disagree with....I realize that their own lives are lead by what they believe just as mine is - and I can separate what I dislike that they do or don't do from how I feel about the person - and I assume they can do the same since I am sure they have their disagreements with me.
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  #18  
February 18th, 2007, 12:23 AM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
To all of you fence sitters: You can't have your cake and eat it too and err on the side of caution or religion, or whatever on this topic. If you support a legislative ban on all abortions, you are pro-life. If you support a woman's right to choose, you are pro-choice. Whether or not you would do it yourself is not the issue, do you feel the need to criminalize abortion? There really is no middle ground, IMO, you are one or the other.[/b]
I realize in your opinion it is black & white, but not everyone sees it that way. I am not sure why it is so hard for people to accept that not every person fits into one side or the other under the typical definition. There is a difference between supporting a particular choice/law & believing taking that choice away (or changing laws) is futile. I am anti-abortion then I guess - does that somehow make it easier to understand? I do not "support" the right to choose - I believe trying to change laws is the MOST ineffective way to handle the issue. In order to call myself pro-choice I personally feel that I would actually have to believe it is a viable choice for others...and to me it isn't. That doesn't change the fact that I think making it illegal would only complicate things further & not be in the best interest of actually changing anything for the better. To me changing laws would still not address the underlying problem of unwanted pg's - which in & of itself is not an abortion issue - it is an education & contraception issue. I would rather see the money, time & energy spent on abortion wars going to that.

On a side note - just because I think it isn't a viable choice has nothing to do with judging the person. I have many friends & family that believe & live differently than me & make choices that I completely disagree with....I realize that their own lives are lead by what they believe just as mine is - and I can separate what I dislike that they do or don't do from how I feel about the person - and I assume they can do the same since I am sure they have their disagreements with me.
[/b]
I am kinda confused though Beckie (sorry!! I know you tried very hard to get your point across...I just have a thick skull I guess! ). When you say 'viable', do you mean...like..

Ok, do you think that women should not be able to choose abortion as an option? I understand that you believe outlawing it may cause more harm than good, but what about...hmm...I guess I am confused. If you don't believe that abortion should be an option...I mean...Well, Ellie has this same thinking too (I think). Hmmm...It's hard for me to grasp I guess...because IMO, if you aren't against outlawing...I dunno...it is (again, IMO) like...accepting it? And people who accept it...to me, would be prochoice? I dunno what I am trying to say....

I think that outlawing abortion will decrease the incidents of abortion by a LONG shot. Before abortion was outlawed, there weren't millions and millions of women dying per year due to back alley abortions (or were there?)....

**Disclaimer - I do find it very unfortunate and tragic that some women would die due to back alley abortions, but it still doesn't make me feel that abortion should be legal...because then...well, actually now that I am thinking about it...Ellie stated that it saves more lives to have abortion legal...but it probably wouldn't (if you consider a fetus a life...which it is...lemme rephrase that...if you consider a fetuses life ummm...hmmm...worth (?) saving...?)....anyway...depending on the stats...which I am almost positive that there are much more abortions being performed now than before the legalization...yes I am sure women died...but I don't think millions and millions died every year....when millions and millions of babies now die every year...so actually, it IS saving more lives by outlawing abortion (again, depending on the stats...I will retract my statement if someone can provide stats that state that the number of back-alley abortion related deaths prior to Roe vs. Wade either meets or exceeds the number of legal abortions done each year now). So the "it saves more lives" arguement doesn't fly with me.

Anyone have any info on that? The statistics of back-alley abortion related deaths prior to Roe vs. Wade?

ETA: Why am I still up? and the disclaimer...

Lol sorry if this seems to jump from thought to thought...lmao, I was typing as I was thinking.
[/b]
I do not know how to better explain it than I already have. I just don't. If you feel better calling me pro-choice - go ahead. I have begun to accept that my feelings on where I am on this issue aren't accepted so that is why I said anti-abortion rather than pro-life. Frankly (and I mean no disrespect) I get tired of trying to explain it to others & feel like now I have to debate my right to see myself on the side of the issue I feel is right for me & it actually is getting old. There have now been several threads where I have articulated my position..and I don't intend to address it any further. I realize this is a debate - but it's debate on abortion - not on what side is Beckie on... And even if it were about me - I don't honestly know any better way to say what I feel than I already have. (sorry of that comes off grumpy - I don't mean it to - I just really don't know what others are asking me on this - I thought I was very clear several times already).

To answer your question as far a woman being able to choose abortion as an option...my mind doesn't go in that direction on this issue. I was told I couldn't date until 16 - but I did. Making that rule didn't change what I thought was right & what I was going to do. I do not think it means making less rules necessarily - but I do think if my parents had spent more time explaining their reasons & concerns, & educating me on dating, etc - I may have been able to see the wisdom in that & agreed to wait until 16 myself & not been so easy to dismiss them as being old fashioned. I know it's a bad example - but it's late & all I have. I believe abortion is wrong - but I truly believe my focus is in working on less unwanted pgs & giving more support so that abortion doesn't seem like the best option. I do not think the pro-life money & effort has ever gone in this direction - so we have yet to see how many abortions that actually reduces...it is yet an untested area & therefore even if it eliminated abortions 100% we'd never know it because it seems to be a much lesser area of focus.

I also do not know stats on illegal abortions - but I don't believe you could ever get accurate records on that anyway - since they know some families were able to have other things listed on death certificates as cause of death (common at that era - same as with suicides, etc. - never make public, if possible, a cause of death that might embarrass a family) - and also - for those that had other issues, infection, loss of fertility, etc - they are unlikely to be honest about something they did that was illegal & make a report on it.
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We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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  #20  
February 19th, 2007, 02:22 PM
MamaBx3
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My head hurts too

I said :

Prochoice - I support other's right to choose for all circumstances, but I would not consider it for myself under any circumstance.

But , I'd like to change the wording to :

Prochoice - I support other's rights to choose in the circumstance of rape, incest, and/or medical issues, but I myself would not even consider abortion under any circumstance .
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