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A question for pro-choicers


Abortion Debate

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  #1  
February 17th, 2007, 09:04 PM
donomama
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I hear a lot of pro-choice people saying that they want to reduce the number of abortions. If you believe that a fetus is not a life (I know not all pro-choice people think that), why would you care how many abortions are done? Why would it matter if women use abortion as birth control and have a couple every year?
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  #2  
February 17th, 2007, 09:11 PM
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I don't look to reduce the number of abortions, and I try to stay away from saying that. I look to reduce the number of unwanted or unplanned pregnancies. I do not mean unplanned in the sense of "well, we weren't trying but not not trying" or unplanned in the sense of "unplanned but ok"..I am talking about unplanned as in "oh sh*t, what are we going to do?" unplanned. I think that when one says "reduce abortions" it is an overall idea becuase when you reduce unwanted/unplanned you immediately reduce abortions (since we can deduce that aborted fetuses, if not for health reasons, are unwanted)

By reducing unwanted or unplanned pregnancies, we reduce the number of children growing up in inadequate/undesireable situations, we reduce the number of scared and stressed woman and men who are faced with the issue of an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy, we reduce the number of STDs (via promotion of safe sex), we reduce economic hardship, etc.

note: I am not saying all children conceived without planning are in undesirable situations but some are.
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  #3  
February 17th, 2007, 09:16 PM
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I want to add that I really like the much used phrase "safe and rare." When abortions are RARE, safe sex, planning, education, etc are working....when abortion is rare, there are fewer unwanted nad unplanned pregnancies occuring, and that's a great thing for the reasons stated above (and more).


ETA: I thought of a few reasons to specifically want less abortions themselves (even if you didnt think the fetus to be a life):

1) if you believe PASS to be a real problem, less abortions would mean less PASS
2) monetary reasons (your tax dollars paying for abortions in some places)
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  #4  
February 17th, 2007, 09:28 PM
chlodoll
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I want to reduce the number of unplanned pregnancies. Increase the use of birthcontrol. I dont care how many abortions are performed, I care that women are treating their bodies with respect.
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  #5  
February 18th, 2007, 05:22 AM
irishxrose
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I agree with Chloe and Sara.
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  #6  
February 18th, 2007, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
I hear a lot of pro-choice people saying that they want to reduce the number of abortions. If you believe that a fetus is not a life (I know not all pro-choice people think that), why would you care how many abortions are done? Why would it matter if women use abortion as birth control and have a couple every year?[/b]
Having an abortion can be a terribly taumatic event for a woman and they mourn their loss also jsut because I am pro-choice doesn't mean I agree with abortion I jsut don't think banning it makes any sense.

Women should feel like they HAVE to have an abortion but they should know its an option and I think alot of women in a lot of situations feel like abortion IS their ony option that is what I want changed.
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  #7  
February 19th, 2007, 07:50 AM
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All right, here is where I am coming from, because I truly do fit into this...

I lean toward pro-choice. I believe that it needs to be available to help avoid situations like in the "true story" thread. There will always be people that feel the need to abort their pregnancy, and I would rather it be done in a safer, more sanitary fashion, and that from there counseling can be made readily available.

That being said, I do not like abortion. I would love it if there could be fewer abortions. My birth mother aborted 4 of my siblings before giving birth to me, it's made life a miracle for me but I mourn my siblings who didn't get the chance I did.

I read this phrase somewhere in this forum and really do feel it explains where I stand: I want to change hearts, not laws. I don't think it's for the government to step in and dictate that there can be no abortion. Look at drugs, outlawing something doesn't stop it. I think we need first to provide education and support to help prevent unplanned/unwanted pregnancies... I also think it should be easier to adopt, and that education and support needs to be provided for those brave souls who are willing to go through with this heart wrenching experience.
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  #8  
February 19th, 2007, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
I want to reduce the number of unplanned pregnancies. Increase the use of birthcontrol. I dont care how many abortions are performed, I care that women are treating their bodies with respect.[/b]
And increase the availability of birth control options, especially to women without insurance coverage.
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  #9  
February 19th, 2007, 08:37 AM
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All right, here is where I am coming from, because I truly do fit into this...

I lean toward pro-choice. I believe that it needs to be available to help avoid situations like in the "true story" thread. There will always be people that feel the need to abort their pregnancy, and I would rather it be done in a safer, more sanitary fashion, and that from there counseling can be made readily available.

That being said, I do not like abortion. I would love it if there could be fewer abortions. My birth mother aborted 4 of my siblings before giving birth to me, it's made life a miracle for me but I mourn my siblings who didn't get the chance I did.

I read this phrase somewhere in this forum and really do feel it explains where I stand: I want to change hearts, not laws. I don't think it's for the government to step in and dictate that there can be no abortion. Look at drugs, outlawing something doesn't stop it. I think we need first to provide education and support to help prevent unplanned/unwanted pregnancies... I also think it should be easier to adopt, and that education and support needs to be provided for those brave souls who are willing to go through with this heart wrenching experience.[/b]
All bolded: I so TOTALLY agree you put it better than I do!
Italics: True - so would you legalise drugs? (not debating it just a question)
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  #11  
February 19th, 2007, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
If you agree that abortion should be an option, then you agree with abortion. Plain and simple. If you think women should have the option, then you accept it and advocate it and therefore, ultimately, agree with it and see it as an acceptable choice.[/b]
i think we need to be careful about saying things like this. One may advocate for the right to choose but, at the same time, not advocate that women go out and get an abortion. YOu may see it as an acceptable choice but not agree with it (a kind of acquiescing I guess).


An example...

I agree people should have the right to choose whether or not they smoke in their house. I advocate that ability to choose but I do not advocate the choice to smoke directly, i will never act to increase smoking in one's home. I see it as acceptable to have the choice to smoke in one's house but I do not agree with those who choose to do so.
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  #13  
February 19th, 2007, 11:54 AM
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I would need to do more research on the drugs question, to be perfectly honest. My gut is to say that it is a different situation, as there is a "safe" way to get an abortion but for some drugs there is no "safe" way to take them, KWIM? But that's off topic and something I'm still learning about so I'm not really set up to debate it, and also gets into any number of other cans of worms.

I would argue that being pro-choice does not mean you agree with or especially advocate abortion. I am pro-choice when it comes to religion, I think everyone deserves the right to choose their faith freely, but I do not agree with the beliefs of every religion out there nor would I publicly speak in favor of some of them. Perhaps I can concede that I accept abortion as a part of the world today, but that doesn't mean I'd recommend it.

ETA: I use "safe" speaking primarily of the physical dangers of both as pertains to the person choosing the action. I know both drugs and abortion can come with a heavy psychological cost.
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  #15  
February 19th, 2007, 11:56 AM
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I def see what you are saying. I was just saying that one needs to be careful to separate advocacy for a choice and agreement with that choice (as I noted in the smoking analogy).

Quote:
I am simply saying that if you see abortion as an ACCEPTABLE alternative, then you must agree with it to some extent, otherwise, how could it be viewed as acceptable?[/b]
This statement I will refer directly to my smoking example:

I agree people should have the right to choose whether or not they smoke in their house. I advocate that ability to choose but I do not advocate the choice to smoke directly, i will never act to increase smoking in one's home. I see it as acceptable to have the choice to smoke in one's house but I do not agree with those who choose to do so.

I do not agree with smoking nor do I agree with smoking in your house. I do agree that you should have the choice to do so if you wish. The choice, that ability to choose, is viewed as acceptable and not the action itself.

So, I could fight to end smoking but not fight to end the choice to do so if you want. does that make sense?
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  #17  
February 19th, 2007, 12:05 PM
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Here is the best way I can think of to explain where I'm coming from when I say I agree with abortion, but believe the option should be there...

Quote:
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. -Voltaire[/b]
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  #18  
February 19th, 2007, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
I def see what you are saying. I was just saying that one needs to be careful to separate advocacy for a choice and agreement with that choice (as I noted in the smoking analogy).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
<div class='quotemain'> I am simply saying that if you see abortion as an ACCEPTABLE alternative, then you must agree with it to some extent, otherwise, how could it be viewed as acceptable?[/b]
This statement I will refer directly to my smoking example:

I agree people should have the right to choose whether or not they smoke in their house. I advocate that ability to choose but I do not advocate the choice to smoke directly, i will never act to increase smoking in one's home. I see it as acceptable to have the choice to smoke in one's house but I do not agree with those who choose to do so.

I do not agree with smoking nor do I agree with smoking in your house. I do agree that you should have the choice to do so if you wish. The choice, that ability to choose, is viewed as acceptable and not the action itself.

So, I could fight to end smoking but not fight to end the choice to do so if you want. does that make sense?

[/b][/quote]

Kinda...I see what you are getting at. But if you don't find smoking acceptable, why find the choice acceptable? I'm starting to think too hard again I think.

Maybe I need to think about my opinions and see if something comparable comes up....I am not sure.
[/b][/quote]

Well, try this example. To those who follow certain religions, God gave man free will. Man may use that free will to do horrible things. God agrees with the free will but not the things done with that will. (again, according to some religions)

So, it's that allowance of choice even if you do not accept the possible results of allowing that choice.
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  #19  
February 19th, 2007, 01:38 PM
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Thinking something is "acceptable" doesn't necessarily mean people are "advocating" it. And most of us (pro choicers) would probably rather there NOT be the need for abortions. But we can't stand the thought of taking away that choice. We're advocating choice...NOT abortion.

There are a lot of things people disagree about. As for the smoking analogy...I never smoked. So for me it's hard to wrap my brain around why someone would want to. But smoking is their choice to make. NOT MINE.
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  #20  
February 19th, 2007, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
According to dictionary.com, "acceptable" means "agreeable". This was my point.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Quote:
ac·cept·a·ble /æk?s?pt?b?l/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ak-sep-tuh-buhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. capable or worthy of being accepted.
2. pleasing to the receiver; satisfactory; agreeable; welcome.
3. meeting only minimum requirements; barely adequate: an acceptable performance.
4. capable of being endured; tolerable; bearable: acceptable levels of radiation.[/b]
Source

If you think abortion is an accetable alternative, ultimately you are in agreement with abortion. (Though not necessarily saying "everyone should get an abortion").
[/b][/quote]

Thats not true at all. I think its the lesser of two evils. But you don't seem to get that
I don't know how else to put it cece you jsut seem stuck on the "you must agree with abortion because you think someone should have the choice" that your not looking beyond and seeing what people are actually saying.
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