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being prolife except for R,I,H cases


Abortion Debate

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  #1  
February 20th, 2007, 09:02 AM
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Well, it seems to have been a thing around here lately to make arguments for other people It goes something like this:"If you believe X how can you possible believe Y? People can't do that!"

So here's my attempt to join in on the fun: note, this is for people who are prolife but ok with abortion in the cases of rape, incest, and health.

If you believe the fetus is a full human life with the right to life, then how is it possible to be against abortion except for rape, incest, and health of the mother. Ok, the last one there is a logical argument, so let's focus on rape and incest.


If the fetus is a full human life, why does their right to life depend on the mode by which they came to have that life? Why is it ok to kill a fetus that is made via rape or incest but not ok to kill one that is the result of bad planning or failed birth control?
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  #2  
February 20th, 2007, 07:16 PM
donomama
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Well, I guess this fits my description. I know that if I were raped, I would never get an abortion. I would hope that others who get raped would consider carrying the baby to term. I don't feel any differently about a baby conceived from rape than I do about a baby conceived out of love. However, I believe that when someone consentually has sex, they are taking on the risks that come along with it, pregnancy and STDs. The "choice" has already been made. You have already exercised your reproductive right. I think if you aren't able to face the consequences, you shouldn't be having sex. People who have been raped haven't made agreed to take on these risks. As I said before, I wish more people would consider adoption in cases of rape, but I don't think they should be forced, even though I see it as the same as any other abortion.
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  #3  
February 23rd, 2007, 09:57 PM
Caeden'sMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Well, i actually DON'T consider it okay in cases of rape. So i agree with you. The only time i think abortion is okay is if the mother's life is in danger... i have compassion for people raped, and it absolutely SUCKS if they end up pregnant from it, but that's not the baby's fault, is it? Sometimes in life sh*t happens, and we all have to deal with it... It's 9 months of that woman's life, and then the baby can be adopted by someone who can love it and take care of it. I don't feel that's too much to ask.
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  #5  
February 23rd, 2007, 10:23 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar I'm climbin' in yo window
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Quote:
Sometimes in life sh*t happens, and we all have to deal with it... It's 9 months of that woman's life, and then the baby can be adopted by someone who can love it and take care of it. I don't feel that's too much to ask.[/b]
I am assuming you have never endured the pain of rape. It is much more than nine months of that woman's life. It consumes your entire life, for years and years. To expect a woman to find a way to heal and move on from the trauma of rape, while carrying the product of her violation, is insensitive. Until you walk a mile in the shoes of the SURVIVOR, do not assume to know what she is emotionally and physically capable of during her healing and coping process.
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  #6  
February 24th, 2007, 12:49 AM
kadydid
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Quote:
Quote:
Sometimes in life sh*t happens, and we all have to deal with it... It's 9 months of that woman's life, and then the baby can be adopted by someone who can love it and take care of it. I don't feel that's too much to ask.[/b]
I am assuming you have never endured the pain of rape. It is much more than nine months of that woman's life. It consumes your entire life, for years and years. To expect a woman to find a way to heal and move on from the trauma of rape, while carrying the product of her violation, is insensitive. Until you walk a mile in the shoes of the SURVIVOR, do not assume to know what she is emotionally and physically capable of during her healing and coping process.
[/b]
I applaud you, not only because you are right, but because you could actually express yourself. I myself have been thinking “#### happens” for the last hour (while I am doing MORE painting) and I can not even express my opinion on that because I would probably get banned for being rude and disrespectful. (But I am sure everyone can guess some of the things I am thinking so I will just leave it at that)
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  #7  
February 24th, 2007, 02:15 AM
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I guess to me its ok because you didn't choose to take on the risk in rape and for all i know in incest either (although there may be some wierd people out there)
I don't see that a woman or a child should be forced to go through with it because its not HER fault either.
If the abortion is for health reasons then ITA with it. If there is a chance both lives will be lost naturally then one should activly be saved. IMO.

Quote:
I am assuming you have never endured the pain of rape. It is much more than nine months of that woman's life. It consumes your entire life, for years and years. To expect a woman to find a way to heal and move on from the trauma of rape, while carrying the product of her violation, is insensitive. Until you walk a mile in the shoes of the SURVIVOR, do not assume to know what she is emotionally and physically capable of during her healing and coping process.[/b]
Really well written.

Quote:
Well, i actually DON'T consider it okay in cases of rape. So i agree with you. The only time i think abortion is okay is if the mother's life is in danger... i have compassion for people raped, and it absolutely SUCKS if they end up pregnant from it, but that's not the baby's fault, is it? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Quote:
Sometimes in life sh*t happens, and we all have to deal with it... It's 9 months of that woman's life[/b]
, and then the baby can be adopted by someone who can love it and take care of it. I don't feel that's too much to ask.[/b][/quote]

Cece is so totally right you jsut trivialised the pain of every rape victim out there. "Sh*t happens get over it"
Fair enough you don't agree with abortion except in the health of the mother but if you ask me a rape abortion is in the mental health interests of a woman.
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  #8  
February 24th, 2007, 08:06 AM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I guess that I think I would hope all women were strong enough - or able to process enough to carry a baby that was created through rape. I cannot say I "expect" them to. I know it isn't the baby's fault this happened - but I also know it isn't the womans fault either. Even without pg - many women are suicidal after rape - I would think that would be even higher among those who got pg. Not to mention all the difficult hormones, etc that come with pg while trying to cope with the violation, etc. It is a complex issue. I also think that you MUST bear in mind that many rape victims do not want their rape made public - and unless you want to stay in your house as a prison for at least 4-5 months (tail end of pg) - people WILL ask you about the baby...if it's your first, if you know the gender, etc, etc, etc. Believe me - I don't wave any big sign saying talk to me about my pg (quite the opposite as I prefer NOT to talk to strangers about it) but I can't even pump gas these days without some sort of questions - or worse yet people trying to touch my belly. I cannot imagine in these circumstances how hard that would be - and then if you gave the baby up - all the questions after about why...... Perhaps if people minded their own business more - others might exercise even more options - but the truth is VERY few of us (including myself at times) are good at REALLY minding our own business. Often times people "think" they are being nice in asking this type of thing simply because they really don't think and/or know better.

This still doesn't mean I think it is "okay" I guess - it just means I completely understand why it may be more than many women can handle. Give the same exact circumstances - 10 people will react 10 different ways - and we need to remember that not everyone can do what someone else can do. If one woman can carry to term & find peace with it - another woman might be pushed completely over the edge by that. I also do not in any way want to belittle that giving a child up for adoption is it's own separate incredibly difficult issue as well, no matter how the child came to be or reasons for feeling it necessary.
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  #9  
February 24th, 2007, 08:45 AM
Cereal Killer's Avatar I'm climbin' in yo window
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Quote:
I guess that I think I would hope all women were strong enough - or able to process enough to carry a baby that was created through rape. I cannot say I "expect" them to. I know it isn't the baby's fault this happened - but I also know it isn't the womans fault either. Even without pg - many women are suicidal after rape - I would think that would be even higher among those who got pg. Not to mention all the difficult hormones, etc that come with pg while trying to cope with the violation, etc. It is a complex issue. I also think that you MUST bear in mind that many rape victims do not want their rape made public - and unless you want to stay in your house as a prison for at least 4-5 months (tail end of pg) - people WILL ask you about the baby...if it's your first, if you know the gender, etc, etc, etc. Believe me - I don't wave any big sign saying talk to me about my pg (quite the opposite as I prefer NOT to talk to strangers about it) but I can't even pump gas these days without some sort of questions - or worse yet people trying to touch my belly. I cannot imagine in these circumstances how hard that would be - and then if you gave the baby up - all the questions after about why...... Perhaps if people minded their own business more - others might exercise even more options - but the truth is VERY few of us (including myself at times) are good at REALLY minding our own business. Often times people "think" they are being nice in asking this type of thing simply because they really don't think and/or know better.

This still doesn't mean I think it is "okay" I guess - it just means I completely understand why it may be more than many women can handle. Give the same exact circumstances - 10 people will react 10 different ways - and we need to remember that not everyone can do what someone else can do. If one woman can carry to term & find peace with it - another woman might be pushed completely over the edge by that. I also do not in any way want to belittle that giving a child up for adoption is it's own separate incredibly difficult issue as well, no matter how the child came to be or reasons for feeling it necessary.[/b]

Quote:
I can't even pump gas these days without some sort of questions - or worse yet people trying to touch my belly.[/b]
The touching drove me crazy, I bought this shirt:
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  #10  
February 24th, 2007, 10:31 AM
*Firefly*'s Avatar Girlfriend and Blogger
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That shirts a great idea - did it work well??
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  #11  
February 24th, 2007, 11:25 AM
Cereal Killer's Avatar I'm climbin' in yo window
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That shirts a great idea - did it work well??[/b]
Yes, it did!
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  #12  
February 24th, 2007, 12:51 PM
Pure Innocence
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I guess that I think I would hope all women were strong enough - or able to process enough to carry a baby that was created through rape. I cannot say I "expect" them to. I know it isn't the baby's fault this happened - but I also know it isn't the womans fault either. Even without pg - many women are suicidal after rape - I would think that would be even higher among those who got pg. Not to mention all the difficult hormones, etc that come with pg while trying to cope with the violation, etc. It is a complex issue. I also think that you MUST bear in mind that many rape victims do not want their rape made public - and unless you want to stay in your house as a prison for at least 4-5 months (tail end of pg) - people WILL ask you about the baby...if it's your first, if you know the gender, etc, etc, etc. Believe me - I don't wave any big sign saying talk to me about my pg (quite the opposite as I prefer NOT to talk to strangers about it) but I can't even pump gas these days without some sort of questions - or worse yet people trying to touch my belly. I cannot imagine in these circumstances how hard that would be - and then if you gave the baby up - all the questions after about why...... Perhaps if people minded their own business more - others might exercise even more options - but the truth is VERY few of us (including myself at times) are good at REALLY minding our own business. Often times people "think" they are being nice in asking this type of thing simply because they really don't think and/or know better.

This still doesn't mean I think it is "okay" I guess - it just means I completely understand why it may be more than many women can handle. Give the same exact circumstances - 10 people will react 10 different ways - and we need to remember that not everyone can do what someone else can do. If one woman can carry to term & find peace with it - another woman might be pushed completely over the edge by that. I also do not in any way want to belittle that giving a child up for adoption is it's own separate incredibly difficult issue as well, no matter how the child came to be or reasons for feeling it necessary.[/b]
You always have words filled with wisdom!
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  #13  
February 24th, 2007, 01:46 PM
*Firefly*'s Avatar Girlfriend and Blogger
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 24,398
Quote:
I guess that I think I would hope all women were strong enough - or able to process enough to carry a baby that was created through rape. I cannot say I "expect" them to. I know it isn't the baby's fault this happened - but I also know it isn't the womans fault either. Even without pg - many women are suicidal after rape - I would think that would be even higher among those who got pg. Not to mention all the difficult hormones, etc that come with pg while trying to cope with the violation, etc. It is a complex issue. I also think that you MUST bear in mind that many rape victims do not want their rape made public - and unless you want to stay in your house as a prison for at least 4-5 months (tail end of pg) - people WILL ask you about the baby...if it's your first, if you know the gender, etc, etc, etc. Believe me - I don't wave any big sign saying talk to me about my pg (quite the opposite as I prefer NOT to talk to strangers about it) but I can't even pump gas these days without some sort of questions - or worse yet people trying to touch my belly. I cannot imagine in these circumstances how hard that would be - and then if you gave the baby up - all the questions after about why...... Perhaps if people minded their own business more - others might exercise even more options - but the truth is VERY few of us (including myself at times) are good at REALLY minding our own business. Often times people "think" they are being nice in asking this type of thing simply because they really don't think and/or know better.

This still doesn't mean I think it is "okay" I guess - it just means I completely understand why it may be more than many women can handle. Give the same exact circumstances - 10 people will react 10 different ways - and we need to remember that not everyone can do what someone else can do. If one woman can carry to term & find peace with it - another woman might be pushed completely over the edge by that. I also do not in any way want to belittle that giving a child up for adoption is it's own separate incredibly difficult issue as well, no matter how the child came to be or reasons for feeling it necessary.[/b]
That reasoning is why i believe for some reason abortion is in the health interests of the victim after rape.
We would all like to be strong enough to say if I was raped and I fell pregnant I would keep the baby but the truth is you don't know how you'll react until your there (for most people anyway).
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Now I believe in grace and choice,
And I know perhaps my heart is farce,
But I’ll be born without a mask
~ Babel, Mumford & Sons



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  #14  
February 24th, 2007, 11:02 PM
Caeden&#39;sMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
Quote:
Well, i actually DON'T consider it okay in cases of rape. So i agree with you. The only time i think abortion is okay is if the mother's life is in danger... i have compassion for people raped, and it absolutely SUCKS if they end up pregnant from it, but that's not the baby's fault, is it? Sometimes in life sh*t happens, and we all have to deal with it... It's 9 months of that woman's life, and then the baby can be adopted by someone who can love it and take care of it. I don't feel that's too much to ask.[/b]
This is tough...because in part, I agree with you...I just wouldn't have worded it in such a manner. I don't believe in abortion in any circumstance (which includes rape), but I wouldn't refer to it as simply "*^&% happens"...that's kinda a bit condescending and I feel like it minimizes rape. I dunno...I just would have worded it better, that's all. People on this board and other boards have been raped, and I can see why someone would get upset by these comments. I just feel that your attitude just seems a little too...hmm what's the word? Nonchalant/casual/indifferent? Oblivious? Not sure....I think 'casual' is the word I am looking for....
[/b]
Wow, firstly let me just apologize to all who i seem to have offended... that was totally NOT the way i meant it! I myself have not been raped, but i have been close to people who have... I know it is not the same, but please don't think i don't have any compassion for it. I REALLY worded that wrong, and i am sorry...

The internet is so hard because things can come out SO much differently than you mean them to. I was just trying to make a point that we ALL deal with bad things, and it sucks, and it's not fair... but we DO have to deal. It doesn't make hurting or killing someone okay, just because of bad circumstances. I hope that makes sense...

Again, i'm sorry!
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  #15  
February 25th, 2007, 06:02 PM
eash's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Well, i actually DON'T consider it okay in cases of rape. So i agree with you. The only time i think abortion is okay is if the mother's life is in danger... i have compassion for people raped, and it absolutely SUCKS if they end up pregnant from it, but that's not the baby's fault, is it? Sometimes in life sh*t happens, and we all have to deal with it... It's 9 months of that woman's life, and then the baby can be adopted by someone who can love it and take care of it. I don't feel that's too much to ask.[/b]
This is tough...because in part, I agree with you...I just wouldn't have worded it in such a manner. I don't believe in abortion in any circumstance (which includes rape), but I wouldn't refer to it as simply "*^&% happens"...that's kinda a bit condescending and I feel like it minimizes rape. I dunno...I just would have worded it better, that's all. People on this board and other boards have been raped, and I can see why someone would get upset by these comments. I just feel that your attitude just seems a little too...hmm what's the word? Nonchalant/casual/indifferent? Oblivious? Not sure....I think 'casual' is the word I am looking for....
[/b]
Wow, firstly let me just apologize to all who i seem to have offended... that was totally NOT the way i meant it! I myself have not been raped, but i have been close to people who have... I know it is not the same, but please don't think i don't have any compassion for it. I REALLY worded that wrong, and i am sorry...

The internet is so hard because things can come out SO much differently than you mean them to. I was just trying to make a point that we ALL deal with bad things, and it sucks, and it's not fair... but we DO have to deal. It doesn't make hurting or killing someone okay, just because of bad circumstances. I hope that makes sense...

Again, i'm sorry!
[/b]
Just wanted to say that I think it is wonderful and sweet that you wrote an apology. That happens so rarely on these boards and it is nice to see someone step and admit to a mistep of their own.
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