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Abortion Debate

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  #21  
March 22nd, 2007, 05:10 PM
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You hear every day on the news of people murdering people.It is just saying what it is.I am a christian and all of the preachers that a I have seen on tv say it is murder as well.You gotta say it like it is.
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  #22  
March 22nd, 2007, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
You hear every day on the news of people murdering people.It is just saying what it is.I am a christian and all of the preachers that a I have seen on tv say it is murder as well.You gotta say it like it is.[/b]
OOOOHHHH! Well, why didn't you say so? I didn't know all the preachers on tv were saying it is murder, well now, that changes everything!! I have only previously known, that no one, not even scientists, could pinpoint when a fetus became a life. But, now that all the preachers on tv have reached a consensus, I am going to rethink my position on the matter.
BTW-I am a Christian too, Catholic to be precise. My priest is just as human as I am, and I am fairly positive he has sinned just like you and me.
Strangely enough, I enjoy how you glazed over the Bible verses I quoted. I guess you are a cafeteria Christian too, huh, just pick and choose which verses you want to adhere to?
edit for spelling
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  #24  
March 22nd, 2007, 08:51 PM
mrobinson
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Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Quote:
They don't want to re-define the age of viability off of this one case.. and I think the OP is kinda asking, why not?[/b]
I'm sorry... what is OP? I'm usually good at deciphering these, lol!
[/b][/quote]
Original poster.
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  #25  
March 23rd, 2007, 08:13 AM
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Doh, and I knew that one, too. Thank you!
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  #26  
March 24th, 2007, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
are strange people out there that think a baby is not a baby until they are full term and birthed[/b]
I'm a person that believes abortion up to delivery. Not because there not 'babies' but because present quality of life (meaning mother's life) is MUCH more importaint to me.

And if I am condemed to hell for having abortions. Then most will be wrong about there perseption of god and I'll be with a bunch of people.
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  #28  
March 24th, 2007, 12:05 PM
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I would HOPE someone can convince her otherwise. Mood disorders and personality disorder does not mean you can't make choices for yourself. Sence it is routin to induse labor at 36 weeks (even at 32 weeks) I think the only option an that point should be elective induction and if she wants adoption.

I do feel that it is her right to be indused or have an abortion before the seventh month. HELL at 37 weeks I wanted an abortion and I had great soupport. My son was planned and will know I suffered PPD even BEFORE he was born but he wont know that at 37 weeks I was wish I could take it all back. My DH even had to convince me to the hospital when I confest he hadn't moved all day.

I had him at 39 weeks because of pre-eclamcia. My younger sister came in after I got out of intencive surgury (I had bleed out) that they didn't know weather I'd make it and asked "Was it all worth it?" my answer "Yes, but never again." I look at him every day and am so glade I had such strong soupport because he wouldn't be here. I probably wouldn't be here If not for my DH.

Would I have regreted if I did have an abortion NO. I can say that with complete honesty. Do I think a woman should be forced to hold somthing she doesn't want to because of mental illness or "it's to late" HELL NO. Pregnancy recks havioc on the body.
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  #29  
March 24th, 2007, 01:38 PM
Caeden&#39;sMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I would HOPE someone can convince her otherwise. Mood disorders and personality disorder does not mean you can't make choices for yourself. Sence it is routin to induse labor at 36 weeks (even at 32 weeks) I think the only option an that point should be elective induction and if she wants adoption.

I do feel that it is her right to be indused or have an abortion before the seventh month. HELL at 37 weeks I wanted an abortion and I had great soupport. My son was planned and will know I suffered PPD even BEFORE he was born but he wont know that at 37 weeks I was wish I could take it all back. My DH even had to convince me to the hospital when I confest he hadn't moved all day.

I had him at 39 weeks because of pre-eclamcia. My younger sister came in after I got out of intencive surgury (I had bleed out) that they didn't know weather I'd make it and asked "Was it all worth it?" my answer "Yes, but never again." I look at him every day and am so glade I had such strong soupport because he wouldn't be here. I probably wouldn't be here If not for my DH.

Would I have regreted if I did have an abortion NO. I can say that with complete honesty. Do I think a woman should be forced to hold somthing she doesn't want to because of mental illness or "it's to late" HELL NO. Pregnancy recks havioc on the body.[/b]
I seriously don't even know what to say...

You can't say you would have regretted aborting your son? You think the fact that pregnancy wreaks "havoc" on a body is a good enough reason to terminate it? You think even though a baby would be viable outside of the womb, it is okay to kill it?

You know, when i was nearing the end of my pregnancy with my son there was a story about a woman who was 39 weeks along or something, and decided to take matters into her own hands, and shot herself in the stomach. Now, because that baby was still inside her, she never got charged with it's murder. That's just crazy to me... and sad. But it sounds like you would think that's okay?
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  #30  
March 24th, 2007, 01:48 PM
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I have read Miguelsmommy's story many times and have seen her speak of her beliefs in many different ways. I don't want to seem as though I am speaking for her becuase she is perfectly capable of that for herself. But if you have ever heard of Peter Singer or others who see sentience as the true essence of humanity then you might understand her POV more easily.

Many abortions rights activists have taken this view. They have three major arguments within their support of abortion.

1) No woman should have pregnancy forced upon her because it is risky to the body. Stemming from this is a high value on "the body". It is the woman's body.

2) Sentience is the highest value of the human. The mother is truly sentient and the child only becomes equal or greater than the mother's sentience when that child leaves the womb (now here some argue that this sentience begins earlier...so not everyone who believes this theory will accept abortion rright through to full term)

3) not all children are wanted children; we have a societal duty to cut down on the children who enter this world.

(this is my wording from my experiences debating those with this particular view)
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  #31  
March 24th, 2007, 01:59 PM
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You think the fact that pregnancy wreaks "havoc" on a body is a good enough reason to terminate it?[/b]
I am not sure why this bit amazes you. If you are american, then the court case that legalized abortion (roe v wade) was primarily based on this idea (bolstered by the "no one can tell us when life begins" idea)
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  #32  
March 24th, 2007, 06:14 PM
Caeden&#39;sMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Quote:
You think the fact that pregnancy wreaks "havoc" on a body is a good enough reason to terminate it?[/b]
I am not sure why this bit amazes you. If you are american, then the court case that legalized abortion (roe v wade) was primarily based on this idea (bolstered by the "no one can tell us when life begins" idea)
[/b][/quote]

Well... i guess i just think "Duh! Of course pregnancy is gonna mess with your body a bit!" If you weren't prepared to deal with that, you shouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place. I guess i don't see backaches and hemorrhoids as good enough justification to kill a life that YOU brought into existence.
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  #33  
March 24th, 2007, 06:39 PM
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Wow that is a true blessing that baby is alive, and yes it does make me question late-term abortions even more. As medical advances increase, so does the rate of survival of births before a certain age, and certainly if it wasn't for medical advances that child would not have been alive. I also saw the "if they had known she was only x far along we wouldn't have done it", it makes me question what the complications where to follow through with a C-section.

This is one of the things that bothers me, the Bible says not to judge, yet here somebody just said "its murder". Yes, according to the Bible abortion is wrong, but it is not "our" [general Christian population], to do the judging - by calling a person names. Its not our place to do such a thing. As a Christian myself, I prefer to say "to/for me it is wrong, but it is not my place to decide what you do". If you ask for more of an opinion or why so be it...what is the quote/saying you catch more flies with honey or something?
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  #34  
March 24th, 2007, 07:41 PM
chlodoll
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Well... i guess i just think "Duh! Of course pregnancy is gonna mess with your body a bit!" If you weren't prepared to deal with that, you shouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place. I guess i don't see backaches and hemorrhoids as good enough justification to kill a life that YOU brought into existence. [/b]
hemmroids and back aches?????? Please thats the least of it!
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  #35  
March 24th, 2007, 08:49 PM
Caeden&#39;sMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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This is one of the things that bothers me, the Bible says not to judge, yet here somebody just said "its murder". Yes, according to the Bible abortion is wrong, but it is not "our" [general Christian population], to do the judging - by calling a person names. Its not our place to do such a thing. As a Christian myself, I prefer to say "to/for me it is wrong, but it is not my place to decide what you do". If you ask for more of an opinion or why so be it...what is the quote/saying you catch more flies with honey or something?[/b]
But on the other hand... If someone truly believes it IS murder, how is it being judgmental to call it that? Would you say i'm being judgmental for calling Ted Bundy a murderer?

Quote:
Quote:

Well... i guess i just think "Duh! Of course pregnancy is gonna mess with your body a bit!" If you weren't prepared to deal with that, you shouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place. I guess i don't see backaches and hemorrhoids as good enough justification to kill a life that YOU brought into existence. [/b]
hemmroids and back aches?????? Please thats the least of it!
[/b]
... like?
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  #36  
March 24th, 2007, 09:18 PM
chlodoll
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Like having to leave my job since I was going to be fired for missing to much work for emergency appts. Women losing their jobs due to bedrest. Being admitted to the hospital, kidney failure, sky rocketing blood pressure, having to be on BP medications for weeks after. I was in the hospital for 10 days. I could have died, my baby could have died. I was so swollen and my skin stretched so fast that my stretch marks still hurt till this day 16 months later. My first trimester i had a blood clot in my uterus that cause alot of pain and I was told 50/50 chance of carrying the baby. Nice and stressful. Then I got pre-ecclampsia and was induced at 34 weeks. My son spent two weeks in NICU I am actually terrified to become pregnant again. I dont want to go through that, I dont want my husband and my family to go through that. It was so stressful.
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  #37  
March 24th, 2007, 10:56 PM
Caeden&#39;sMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Like having to leave my job since I was going to be fired for missing to much work for emergency appts. Women losing their jobs due to bedrest. Being admitted to the hospital, kidney failure, sky rocketing blood pressure, having to be on BP medications for weeks after. I was in the hospital for 10 days. I could have died, my baby could have died. I was so swollen and my skin stretched so fast that my stretch marks still hurt till this day 16 months later. My first trimester i had a blood clot in my uterus that cause alot of pain and I was told 50/50 chance of carrying the baby. Nice and stressful. Then I got pre-ecclampsia and was induced at 34 weeks. My son spent two weeks in NICU I am actually terrified to become pregnant again. I dont want to go through that, I dont want my husband and my family to go through that. It was so stressful.[/b]

Firstly, i'd just like to say i'm sorry you had to go through all that... it DOES sound stressful.

But, i still don't see how it's justification for an abortion. That's just my opinion though... i know not everyone agrees, obviously.
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  #38  
March 24th, 2007, 11:02 PM
chlodoll
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Thanks, some how through that I managed to enjoy some of it! I will get pregnant again, but not anytime soon. I am still not over that!

Being pregnant can completely change a woman's life without even giving birth yet. You can lose your job, your relationship, your health etc.
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  #39  
March 25th, 2007, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Quote:

This is one of the things that bothers me, the Bible says not to judge, yet here somebody just said "its murder". Yes, according to the Bible abortion is wrong, but it is not "our" [general Christian population], to do the judging - by calling a person names. Its not our place to do such a thing. As a Christian myself, I prefer to say "to/for me it is wrong, but it is not my place to decide what you do". If you ask for more of an opinion or why so be it...what is the quote/saying you catch more flies with honey or something?[/b]
But on the other hand... If someone truly believes it IS murder, how is it being judgmental to call it that? Would you say i'm being judgmental for calling Ted Bundy a murderer?
[/b]
I see what your saying. I still think its not <my> place to say "you had an abortion therefor your a murderer" ya know? To me, if I said that it'd be making a judgment, and that isn't my place.

I have no idea who Ted Bundy is, so I can't say anything. But generally, I don't get involved in cases where there is a death.
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