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Heavy drinking/drug use while pregnant


Abortion Debate

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  #41  
May 8th, 2007, 12:27 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ohio
Posts: 3,657
Quote:
So? Chances are it will[/b]
but in my opinon it isn't yet. what am I soupouse to say to so?
Quote:
NONE of us have a guarantee of living[/b]
What do you mean we ARE living?
Quote:
so does that mean we can all hurt eachother and it's fine?[/b]
nope because that's forcing things on others
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  #42  
May 8th, 2007, 01:49 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: *queen city* of North Carolina
Posts: 9,497
Maybe I'm on the wrong page here, but this is my logic:

Women, finds out she's pregnant, she's addicted to crack or whatever drugs/drinks of choice that are proven to cause harm to "fetus"/"baby"/whatever word of choice, she has no intention to stop. Baby is born 9 months later addicted to those drugs and is going through withdrawl. Whats is going to happen to that baby first of all, its going to be taken away from its "mother" and will probably be raised in foster homes, or other similar setting, if the women never quits abusing those drugs. Not to mention that there could be life long implications for the child, some may not be minor. While the public supports the child, for the mothers decision to do crack or drink while pregnant. While, I don't think its my place to make a decision, if she has no intent of doing good by the unborn *insert term of choice*, then why? It makes no sense to me. If a person is trying to get off those drugs, then yes the child may still have problems, but at least the mother is trying to do good.

This just seems like a no-win situation. As much as I dislike abortions, I don't know whats worse having an abortion, or keep doing drugs that hurt the [potential] baby, that can cause problems for the rest of its life.
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  #43  
May 8th, 2007, 03:34 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar I'm climbin' in yo window
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: next to Chuck Norris
Posts: 7,371
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Again, it's all in how you view it... You think it's just a potential baby. I think it's a baby.[/b]
Prove it. Science does not agree and neither does the law.
[/b]
This has already been discussed on another thread, but here...
Quote:
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
ba·by /ˈbeɪbi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[bey-bee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural -bies, adjective, verb, -bied, -by·ing.
–noun
1. an infant or very young child.
2. a newborn or very young animal.
3. the youngest member of a family, group, etc.
4. an immature or childish person.
5. a human fetus.[/b]
A fetus is a baby.
[/b]
Well, dictionary.com is an unarguable source. B)
I don't consider that proof, sorry. Embryo, fetus, infant, etc are all terms indicating a stage of development. Baby is just a general term, it does not indicate anything significant. An embryo, and a fetus are developing humans and once born will be infants.
Quote:
A fetus (or foetus, or fśtus) is a developing mammal or other viviparous vertebrate, after the embryonic stage and before birth.
In humans, the fetal stage of development begins at the end of the eighth week after fertilisation, when the major structures and organ systems have formed, until birth.[/b]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus
Quote:
Fetus: The unborn offspring from the end of the 8th week after conception (when the major structures have formed) until birth. Up until the eighth week, the developing offspring is called an embryo.[/b]
http://www.medterms.com/script/main/...rticlekey=3424
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  #44  
May 8th, 2007, 05:40 PM
Mom2DavidandAaron's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mexico City
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Quote:
Wow... Well, i guess there's just nothing more to say to you if you're THAT cold that you can't care about an innocent little baby[/b]
Yes I do care but I already stated my feelings that the mother makes on unwritten contract to keep it safe. The laws state that she will not have her child but myself ethicly I can't hold others to my personal opinions.

I'm not a cold person but I feel I can't and shouldn't force my personal views on others.
[/b][/quote]

And WHEN exactly did she make that contract? To you, only when she chose to keep it, for me, when she got pregnant. But she can break that contract of keeping the baby safe by killing it.

Sharon
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  #45  
May 8th, 2007, 09:17 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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that's why I'm pro-choice and your pro-life
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  #46  
May 9th, 2007, 08:10 AM
Ms.Michelle
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Maybe I'm on the wrong page here, but this is my logic:

Women, finds out she's pregnant, she's addicted to crack or whatever drugs/drinks of choice that are proven to cause harm to "fetus"/"baby"/whatever word of choice, she has no intention to stop. Baby is born 9 months later addicted to those drugs and is going through withdrawl. Whats is going to happen to that baby first of all, its going to be taken away from its "mother" and will probably be raised in foster homes, or other similar setting, if the women never quits abusing those drugs. Not to mention that there could be life long implications for the child, some may not be minor. While the public supports the child, for the mothers decision to do crack or drink while pregnant. While, I don't think its my place to make a decision, if she has no intent of doing good by the unborn *insert term of choice*, then why? It makes no sense to me. If a person is trying to get off those drugs, then yes the child may still have problems, but at least the mother is trying to do good.

This just seems like a no-win situation. As much as I dislike abortions, I don't know whats worse having an abortion, or keep doing drugs that hurt the [potential] baby, that can cause problems for the rest of its life.[/b]
I see where you're coming from.. I 99% agree except for the part where mom has no intention of doing good.

An addiction is something that controls the person. In the case of a pregnant addict, it's hurting two beings. That is way I support abortion for this person. We already have so many kids born with addictions (that is not their fault) that don't have people who are willing to raise them. People see that abortion is irresponsible but how is bringing a baby into the world where this child will have no emotional, verbal, spiritual, and physical support any better? I wish that was the only problem with some of these pregnant women. There are many that don't care about themselves to the point they don't even care about the pregnancy enough to get an abortion. That's why these babies are even born to begin with. Addiction is horrible to our culture and it's not that I support them drinking or doing drugs but I know it controls them and I know it's a reality. Having someone else take more control away from them by not allowing an abortion just makes it worse.
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  #47  
May 9th, 2007, 08:25 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,780
I am just guessing here- but I would think that if someone is really an addict and they are pretty far gone into their addiction, they are going to spend every cent they have on THEIR ADDICTION, so they wouldn't be getting an abortion anyway since they won't have the money to do so. Or if they have the money, they'll spend it on their addiction instead.
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  #48  
May 9th, 2007, 09:19 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 296
I recently read a book on women in the sex trade and how they deal with pregnancy. The authors said that a great deal of women in that industry have previously been sexually or physically abused and one of the coping mechanism they developped is to detach themselves from their body (as if their body is no longer theirs, more of a 'public' thing). To them, it explained partially why it's so hard for someone addicted to drug to stop using while pregnant because they 'feel' as if the foetus is growing in a space that they don't control, that doesn't belong to them.

I'm not saying that it's like taht for everyone. It's simply something that i found very interesting.
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  #49  
May 9th, 2007, 09:23 AM
Ms.Michelle
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Posts: n/a
Quote:
I recently read a book on women in the sex trade and how they deal with pregnancy. The authors said that a great deal of women in that industry have previously been sexually or physically abused and one of the coping mechanism they developped is to detach themselves from their body (as if their body is no longer theirs, more of a 'public' thing). To them, it explained partially why it's so hard for someone addicted to drug to stop using while pregnant because they 'feel' as if the foetus is growing in a space that they don't control, that doesn't belong to them.

I'm not saying that it's like taht for everyone. It's simply something that i found very interesting.[/b]
That just makes so much sense.. I love your posts Selenya!
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  #50  
May 9th, 2007, 10:42 AM
Caeden&#39;sMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 1,765
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Quote:
Maybe I'm on the wrong page here, but this is my logic:

Women, finds out she's pregnant, she's addicted to crack or whatever drugs/drinks of choice that are proven to cause harm to "fetus"/"baby"/whatever word of choice, she has no intention to stop. Baby is born 9 months later addicted to those drugs and is going through withdrawl. Whats is going to happen to that baby first of all, its going to be taken away from its "mother" and will probably be raised in foster homes, or other similar setting, if the women never quits abusing those drugs. Not to mention that there could be life long implications for the child, some may not be minor. While the public supports the child, for the mothers decision to do crack or drink while pregnant. While, I don't think its my place to make a decision, if she has no intent of doing good by the unborn *insert term of choice*, then why? It makes no sense to me. If a person is trying to get off those drugs, then yes the child may still have problems, but at least the mother is trying to do good.

This just seems like a no-win situation. As much as I dislike abortions, I don't know whats worse having an abortion, or keep doing drugs that hurt the [potential] baby, that can cause problems for the rest of its life.[/b]
I see where you're coming from.. I 99% agree except for the part where mom has no intention of doing good.

An addiction is something that controls the person. In the case of a pregnant addict, it's hurting two beings. That is way I support abortion for this person. We already have so many kids born with addictions (that is not their fault) that don't have people who are willing to raise them. People see that abortion is irresponsible but how is bringing a baby into the world where this child will have no emotional, verbal, spiritual, and physical support any better? I wish that was the only problem with some of these pregnant women. There are many that don't care about themselves to the point they don't even care about the pregnancy enough to get an abortion. That's why these babies are even born to begin with. Addiction is horrible to our culture and it's not that I support them drinking or doing drugs but I know it controls them and I know it's a reality. Having someone else take more control away from them by not allowing an abortion just makes it worse.
[/b]
Michelle, i actually completely see where you're coming from here, believe it or not... The way i look at it though is that just because someone is going to be born into a life of suffering, is it TRULY better they not be born at all? I think a lot of people have endured extreme hardships in their lives, and yet would still say they are glad they had the chance to live... Sometimes that suffering is what molds a person into doing great things. And also, you just never really know whether someone's life WILL be full of suffering or not. So to me... i think they still deserve that chance at life. But you're right. Addiction is a horrible thing, and i don't think all drug addicted moms are truly TRYING to be selfish or anything like that. I wish we had more and better help for these things, as that would help the problem too... I don't think a woman getting an abortion is going to help HER with her addiction. If anything, it may just add on to her feelings of guilt and worthlessness and helplessness. Sad situation all around...
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  #51  
May 9th, 2007, 10:49 AM
Ms.Michelle
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Posts: n/a
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Maybe I'm on the wrong page here, but this is my logic:

Women, finds out she's pregnant, she's addicted to crack or whatever drugs/drinks of choice that are proven to cause harm to "fetus"/"baby"/whatever word of choice, she has no intention to stop. Baby is born 9 months later addicted to those drugs and is going through withdrawl. Whats is going to happen to that baby first of all, its going to be taken away from its "mother" and will probably be raised in foster homes, or other similar setting, if the women never quits abusing those drugs. Not to mention that there could be life long implications for the child, some may not be minor. While the public supports the child, for the mothers decision to do crack or drink while pregnant. While, I don't think its my place to make a decision, if she has no intent of doing good by the unborn *insert term of choice*, then why? It makes no sense to me. If a person is trying to get off those drugs, then yes the child may still have problems, but at least the mother is trying to do good.

This just seems like a no-win situation. As much as I dislike abortions, I don't know whats worse having an abortion, or keep doing drugs that hurt the [potential] baby, that can cause problems for the rest of its life.[/b]
I see where you're coming from.. I 99% agree except for the part where mom has no intention of doing good.

An addiction is something that controls the person. In the case of a pregnant addict, it's hurting two beings. That is way I support abortion for this person. We already have so many kids born with addictions (that is not their fault) that don't have people who are willing to raise them. People see that abortion is irresponsible but how is bringing a baby into the world where this child will have no emotional, verbal, spiritual, and physical support any better? I wish that was the only problem with some of these pregnant women. There are many that don't care about themselves to the point they don't even care about the pregnancy enough to get an abortion. That's why these babies are even born to begin with. Addiction is horrible to our culture and it's not that I support them drinking or doing drugs but I know it controls them and I know it's a reality. Having someone else take more control away from them by not allowing an abortion just makes it worse.
[/b]
Michelle, i actually completely see where you're coming from here, believe it or not... The way i look at it though is that just because someone is going to be born into a life of suffering, is it TRULY better they not be born at all? I think a lot of people have endured extreme hardships in their lives, and yet would still say they are glad they had the chance to live... Sometimes that suffering is what molds a person into doing great things. And also, you just never really know whether someone's life WILL be full of suffering or not. So to me... i think they still deserve that chance at life. But you're right. Addiction is a horrible thing, and i don't think all drug addicted moms are truly TRYING to be selfish or anything like that. I wish we had more and better help for these things, as that would help the problem too... I don't think a woman getting an abortion is going to help HER with her addiction. If anything, it may just add on to her feelings of guilt and worthlessness and helplessness. Sad situation all around...
[/b]


((re-reading))

I think my eyes are but I think I read you and I understand this. (To a point of course.)

No, I don't think it will help women with an addiction either but at least we don't have another convulsing child of an addiction, who needs more attention, when we just don't have enough resources for them.

I know that abortion sucks for many people, especially pro-life advocates, but it's awesome when we do agree there is a bigger picture to see that is our reality, like it or not.
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  #52  
May 9th, 2007, 10:51 AM
Caeden&#39;sMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 1,765
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fallen2Love @ May 8 2007, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotemain'>
Maybe I'm on the wrong page here, but this is my logic:

Women, finds out she's pregnant, she's addicted to crack or whatever drugs/drinks of choice that are proven to cause harm to "fetus"/"baby"/whatever word of choice, she has no intention to stop. Baby is born 9 months later addicted to those drugs and is going through withdrawl. Whats is going to happen to that baby first of all, its going to be taken away from its "mother" and will probably be raised in foster homes, or other similar setting, if the women never quits abusing those drugs. Not to mention that there could be life long implications for the child, some may not be minor. While the public supports the child, for the mothers decision to do crack or drink while pregnant. While, I don't think its my place to make a decision, if she has no intent of doing good by the unborn *insert term of choice*, then why? It makes no sense to me. If a person is trying to get off those drugs, then yes the child may still have problems, but at least the mother is trying to do good.

This just seems like a no-win situation. As much as I dislike abortions, I don't know whats worse having an abortion, or keep doing drugs that hurt the [potential] baby, that can cause problems for the rest of its life.[/b]
I see where you're coming from.. I 99% agree except for the part where mom has no intention of doing good.

An addiction is something that controls the person. In the case of a pregnant addict, it's hurting two beings. That is way I support abortion for this person. We already have so many kids born with addictions (that is not their fault) that don't have people who are willing to raise them. People see that abortion is irresponsible but how is bringing a baby into the world where this child will have no emotional, verbal, spiritual, and physical support any better? I wish that was the only problem with some of these pregnant women. There are many that don't care about themselves to the point they don't even care about the pregnancy enough to get an abortion. That's why these babies are even born to begin with. Addiction is horrible to our culture and it's not that I support them drinking or doing drugs but I know it controls them and I know it's a reality. Having someone else take more control away from them by not allowing an abortion just makes it worse.
[/b]
Michelle, i actually completely see where you're coming from here, believe it or not... The way i look at it though is that just because someone is going to be born into a life of suffering, is it TRULY better they not be born at all? I think a lot of people have endured extreme hardships in their lives, and yet would still say they are glad they had the chance to live... Sometimes that suffering is what molds a person into doing great things. And also, you just never really know whether someone's life WILL be full of suffering or not. So to me... i think they still deserve that chance at life. But you're right. Addiction is a horrible thing, and i don't think all drug addicted moms are truly TRYING to be selfish or anything like that. I wish we had more and better help for these things, as that would help the problem too... I don't think a woman getting an abortion is going to help HER with her addiction. If anything, it may just add on to her feelings of guilt and worthlessness and helplessness. Sad situation all around...
[/b][/quote]


((re-reading))

I think my eyes are but I think I read you and I understand this. (To a point of course.)

No, I don't think it will help women with an addiction either but at least we don't have another convulsing child of an addiction, who needs more attention, when we just don't have enough resources for them.

I know that abortion sucks for many people, especially pro-life advocates, but it's awesome when we do agree there is a bigger picture to see that is our reality, like it or not.
[/b][/quote]

You know what... All i have to say is:

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  #53  
May 9th, 2007, 06:21 PM
Mom2DavidandAaron's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mexico City
Posts: 3,227
Quote:
The way i look at it though is that just because someone is going to be born into a life of suffering, is it TRULY better they not be born at all? I think a lot of people have endured extreme hardships in their lives, and yet would still say they are glad they had the chance to live... Sometimes that suffering is what molds a person into doing great things. And also, you just never really know whether someone's life WILL be full of suffering or not. So to me... i think they still deserve that chance at life. But you're right.[/b]
That's what I've been trying to say. At least when you're alive you've got a chance. And who are we decide what life will be worthy? And, as you say, a person born into a perfectly healthy and happy family can have a life os suffering, while a person born to a drug addict mother, in poverty and foster homes can have a meaningful, plenty life and WHO are WE to end that process because we assume what that life's gonna be?
Everyone deserves a chance to do something, regardless of their circumstances. That's really what we're here for, aren't we? To create meaningful lives and just do our bit and grow and learn? How can anyone dare to guess (because that's what it is, nothing more than "guessing") what someone's life will be like and decide that they're not worth that chance?

Sharon
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