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A lil off topic but I have a point I swear


Abortion Debate

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  #1  
May 7th, 2007, 06:32 PM
camsmommie's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I have been thinking of a better way to explain myself and my topic I posted a few days ago....

Although I have benefitted from them (bc I don't smoke) I do not belive that the smoking bans around the country should be happening... I do not like smoking and wish that ppl would quit on their own free will but I don't think that smoking in public places should be governed by a democracy based government...

and to my point and what brings me back to this board is that I wish this same idea be used for the issue of abortion.... I don't like abortion and do not approve of it being used for a method of birth control but it is not my right to take away the rights of others.....

So do you really believe that our government has the right to strip away our personal rights one by one?
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  #2  
May 7th, 2007, 06:39 PM
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nope...
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  #3  
May 7th, 2007, 06:45 PM
Mom2DavidandAaron's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
I have been thinking of a better way to explain myself and my topic I posted a few days ago....

Although I have benefitted from them (bc I don't smoke) I do not belive that the smoking bans around the country should be happening... I do not like smoking and wish that ppl would quit on their own free will but I don't think that smoking in public places should be governed by a democracy based government...

and to my point and what brings me back to this board is that I wish this same idea be used for the issue of abortion.... I don't like abortion and do not approve of it being used for a method of birth control but it is not my right to take away the rights of others.....

So do you really believe that our government has the right to strip away our personal rights one by one?[/b]
No, of course not!
I definitely don't agree with abortion as a method of birth control. But I'm a realist as well. I know that, whether I liek it or not, people will seek abortions for good reasons, for bad reasons, and for no reason. I'm not the kind of person that thinks that by not provising something, you end it. That's pathetic dellusionsl, wishful thinking. In real life, if it's not available, people who really want it (and there'll always be) will make it available. So the least we could do is ensure that it's pretty much safe for the mother, it's controlled in a certain way.
But I'm also not a cynic. I know that some people will be discouraged from getting an abortion if it wasn't readily available. Of course some people will risk their lives by going to a hidden place, with an unskilled practitioner in unsanitary conditions as long as that baby is out. But many others won't feel it's worth the risk and each baby saved it's a step forward towards educating people in personal accountability and taking responsibility. So I also don't think that abortions as birth control should be that readily available.

Sharon
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  #4  
May 7th, 2007, 07:18 PM
Caeden&#39;sMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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The problem with both abortion AND smoking, is that IT HARMS OTHER PEOPLE. My rights end when they start infringing on other's rights. So no, i don't agree with stripping away rights... But i DO agree with PROTECTING the rights of innocent people (ie. babies and non-smokers.)
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  #5  
May 8th, 2007, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
The problem with both abortion AND smoking, is that IT HARMS OTHER PEOPLE. My rights end when they start infringing on other's rights. So no, i don't agree with stripping away rights... But i DO agree with PROTECTING the rights of innocent people (ie. babies and non-smokers.)[/b]
What ends up happening though when you protect the rights of, say, nonsmokers, is that now smokers can't smoke anywhere except their own home or car, pretty much. So they no longer have the right to smoke, effectively. So their right was taken away from them to protect the nonsmoker.

You can't seem to have both, either you protect the smokers, or you protect the nonsmokers. Either you protect the rights of the fetus, or you protect the rights of the mom. One of their rights is going to be upheld at the expense of the other one.
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  #7  
May 8th, 2007, 07:10 AM
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Not to say I disagree with you - but I remember when I was taking a statistics class the smoking ban was becoming a big thing. Now, I don't like when people smoke near me, I don't like the smell, but we had a discussion on how (not why) American's often exaggerate one risk over another.

If you spent time in the company of a smoker everyday (becoming a passive smoker) your risk of from health problems are 1 in 30,000. That's if you do it everyday. If you're only around one say at a mall or a restaurant (which I dislike most - smoking where I'm eating?? Ugh) the odds aren't that close.
But, if you ate a pork chop once a week you have a statistically higher chance of getting cancer.[/b]
I don't smoke anymore, but the smoking bans used to annoy the @#%$ out of me for the reason you mentioned.

I guess it mostly protects the employees, not the patrons (who it has a minimal effect on). But I figure, hey, if you don't want to be around smokers, don't work at a bar! I think it is stupid to ban smoking in bars just to protect one or two bartenders. Why are the rights of one or two bartenders more important than the rights of dozens of smokers who are customers?
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  #8  
May 8th, 2007, 07:10 AM
quietsong's Avatar Just Another Slacker Mom
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I can see both sides of it when it comes to protecting innocent. On the one hand, I think that people absolutely have a right to smoke if they decide to, and I'm not sure I like the government stepping in to legislate smoking in privately owned establishments (bars, restaurants, etc). On the other hand, I am allergic to cigarette smoke. I break into coughing fits, can't breathe, prolonged exposure gets pretty ugly and can lead to asthma attacks, etc. The people smoking CHOSE to smoke. I did not CHOOSE to be violently allergic to their habit. They still have a right to smoke, they just cannot inflict their choice upon other people.

I don't totally agree with it, but I can see it. The same goes for abortion. The mother chose to have sex; the baby did not choose to be conceived. I don't like smoking or abortion and wish people would stop both, I'm just on the fence as to where the line should be drawn between people being enlightened and making their own choices and the government dictating what the "correct" choice is.
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  #9  
May 8th, 2007, 08:45 AM
Caeden&#39;sMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
I can see both sides of it when it comes to protecting innocent. On the one hand, I think that people absolutely have a right to smoke if they decide to, and I'm not sure I like the government stepping in to legislate smoking in privately owned establishments (bars, restaurants, etc). On the other hand, I am allergic to cigarette smoke. I break into coughing fits, can't breathe, prolonged exposure gets pretty ugly and can lead to asthma attacks, etc. The people smoking CHOSE to smoke. I did not CHOOSE to be violently allergic to their habit. They still have a right to smoke, they just cannot inflict their choice upon other people.

I don't totally agree with it, but I can see it. The same goes for abortion. The mother chose to have sex; the baby did not choose to be conceived. I don't like smoking or abortion and wish people would stop both, I'm just on the fence as to where the line should be drawn between people being enlightened and making their own choices and the government dictating what the "correct" choice is.[/b]
They CHOOSE their actions, and again... your rights end when they start harming others. So it's no longer about THEIR rights at that point.
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  #10  
May 8th, 2007, 09:42 AM
Ms.Michelle
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So do you really believe that our government has the right to strip away our personal rights one by one?[/b]
No.

I find it absurd people speak of protecting the innocent when everyday people die from the hands of their own bombs. Was it 16 dead and 17 injuried yesterday in Iraq?
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  #12  
May 8th, 2007, 09:51 AM
Caeden&#39;sMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
Quote:
So do you really believe that our government has the right to strip away our personal rights one by one?[/b]
No.

I find it absurd people speak of protecting the innocent when everyday people die from the hands of their own bombs. Was it 16 dead and 17 injuried yesterday in Iraq?
[/b]
Hey... I don't agree with what's going on in Iraq either! My views are consistent...

Quote:
I don't think the government should regulate abortion because it's a woman's body. I don't see a fetus as a person until it's born so no, it's not harming a person. Smoking around people harms them. My son has asthma and is allergic to cigarette smoke so I don't think restaurants should have a smoking section. It harms "people" and a fetus is not a "person".[/b]
Okay, so going back to the other debates... if a fetus isn't a person, and therefore can't be harmed, then the mother should be free to use drugs, drink, and smoke while pregnant, right?
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  #14  
May 8th, 2007, 10:24 AM
Aiden_Konnors_Ma's Avatar Veteran
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I don't think the government should regulate abortion because it's a woman's body. I don't see a fetus as a person until it's born so no, it's not harming a person. Smoking around people harms them. My son has asthma and is allergic to cigarette smoke so I don't think restaurants should have a smoking section. It harms "people" and a fetus is not a "person".[/b]
Okay, so going back to the other debates... if a fetus isn't a person, and therefore can't be harmed, then the mother should be free to use drugs, drink, and smoke while pregnant, right?
[/b]
I'm going to use a quote from the other debate:
Quote:
Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. You can fancy it up with all the cute little baby murdering imagery, but it is not that dramatic. It is an embryo, a fetus, a clump of cells, a potential life. Irresponsible behavior of a woman who has commited herself and her body to carrying a pregnancy to term can cause damage to the fetus which can develop into permanent and irreparable damage that can carry on through infancy to adulthood.

This way of thinking is just ignorant, IMO. If you want to believe that it is acceptable for a woman to take part in illegal and physically damaging activities because abortion is illegal, so be it. I think it is a baseless argument attempting to do nothing more than create a negative, baby-hating, pro-choicer image. I have said, and I will say again, commiting yourself and your body to a pregnancy comes with a moral obligation, not a legal one. I don't sit around wishing harm to every unborn child, I think this analogy is just sick, personally. I don't want women to kill themselves either, I don't women to die for pregnancy, I don't want children born addicted to crack and unwanted, I don't want women raking coathangers through their vaginas. I don't put the potential life above the existing life.[/b]
I agree with this.
[/b]
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  #15  
May 8th, 2007, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
The problem with both abortion AND smoking, is that IT HARMS OTHER PEOPLE. My rights end when they start infringing on other's rights. So no, i don't agree with stripping away rights... But i DO agree with PROTECTING the rights of innocent people (ie. babies and non-smokers.)[/b]
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  #16  
May 10th, 2007, 06:06 AM
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From July the UK will be smoke free in public places, and I am a bit two sided with this. I think it is a good thing for the inoccnet people but in the UK it's the taxes on ciggarets that pay for our health service..
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