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No Uterus, No Opinion


Abortion Debate

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  #21  
July 20th, 2007, 06:14 PM
Bre+Will=Reid
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Well, in my point of view, the father of the baby SHOULD sign a consent form to the abortion.

Before you jump down my throat, let me explain.

Once again, it's the fundamental issue of life vs. death and reproductive rights vs. those rights being taken away. I view abortion as life vs. death, always. For me, there is no such thing as abortion = a woman's right to choose. For me, no, it's not your right (not in the eyes of the law of course, but to many pro-lifers), it's a LIFE. No one, not even the person carrying the child has the right to take that life. That life does not BELONG to you. It is it's OWN.

Now, would my theory of needing the males consent for abortion work? No. There are too many awful situations out there that would cause problems to arise. So, if I need to deal with the fact that abortion is legal in this country, I must support the current law that a woman does not need consent from the father. As much as I disagree with abortion, as long as it is legal, it much be handled with care.

"No Uterus, No Opinion".....well, that's bull to me as well, for the same reason as stated in my second paragraph. Again, the life of a fetus belongs to no one. It was created by a man and a women, but at conception, it became a separate life. Why shouldn't a man be allowed to have an opinion when it comes to taking the life of another?

Let me repeat, again, I understand that what I'm saying may peeve a lot of people, but you must understand that the views of many pro-choicers peeve me as well. Sometimes, the difference of fundamental opinion is too strong to even argue/debate about. I see it as apples. You see it as oranges.
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  #22  
July 21st, 2007, 04:08 AM
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Well, in my point of view, the father of the baby SHOULD sign a consent form to the abortion.

Before you jump down my throat, let me explain.

Once again, it's the fundamental issue of life vs. death and reproductive rights vs. those rights being taken away. I view abortion as life vs. death, always. For me, there is no such thing as abortion = a woman's right to choose. For me, no, it's not your right (not in the eyes of the law of course, but to many pro-lifers), it's a LIFE. No one, not even the person carrying the child has the right to take that life. That life does not BELONG to you. It is it's OWN.

Now, would my theory of needing the males consent for abortion work? No. There are too many awful situations out there that would cause problems to arise. So, if I need to deal with the fact that abortion is legal in this country, I must support the current law that a woman does not need consent from the father. As much as I disagree with abortion, as long as it is legal, it much be handled with care.

"No Uterus, No Opinion".....well, that's bull to me as well, for the same reason as stated in my second paragraph. Again, the life of a fetus belongs to no one. It was created by a man and a women, but at conception, it became a separate life. Why shouldn't a man be allowed to have an opinion when it comes to taking the life of another?

Let me repeat, again, I understand that what I'm saying may peeve a lot of people, but you must understand that the views of many pro-choicers peeve me as well. Sometimes, the difference of fundamental opinion is too strong to even argue/debate about. I see it as apples. You see it as oranges.[/b]
Well said. I just personally think the dad should have say if not where are his rights. If he is man enough to step up to the plate and be a dad hey let him. Personally If I got preggers and I didnt want the baby I would talk to the babies father and if he wanted the baby I would give him the baby. Some may ask why. because that baby didnt ask to be made and i am doing whats in the best interest in my child.. Note I am not giving the baby i am carrying up to the father lol. I was making a point lol.
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  #23  
July 21st, 2007, 04:18 AM
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No, no, no. Just because someone SAYS they want to step up and be a dad, doesn't mean they WILL step up and be a dad.

What about abusive relationships?

What about a one night stand where the condom broke, tell me that guy has a right to force a woman he doesn't know to carry a pregnancy she doesn't want.

The ONLY time I think the dad should even be notified that there is a pregancy, is if that is his WIFE. And I don't think he should have a say in the matter, just that he deserves to know she is pregnant and he deserves to know if she is considering abortion. If he wants to try to talk her out of it, he should be able to try to talk her out of it. But, that's as far as it goes. I don't think he should be able to make the decision FOR her.

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  #24  
July 21st, 2007, 08:48 AM
Dayna1
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What about a one night stand where the condom broke, tell me that guy has a right to force a woman he doesn't know to carry a pregnancy she doesn't want.

The ONLY time I think the dad should even be notified that there is a pregancy, is if that is his WIFE. And I don't think he should have a say in the matter, just that he deserves to know she is pregnant and he deserves to know if she is considering abortion. If he wants to try to talk her out of it, he should be able to try to talk her out of it. But, that's as far as it goes. I don't think he should be able to make the decision FOR her.[/b]
ABSOLUTELY he should have a say. One night stand or not, he's still the father. She doesn't want the baby? I don't see why she couldn't carry the baby, give birth then sign over HER rights.

I'm so sick of hearing, 'my body, my right'. It should be changed to, 'your body, our baby, our choice'.
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  #25  
July 21st, 2007, 09:54 AM
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No, no, no. Just because someone SAYS they want to step up and be a dad, doesn't mean they WILL step up and be a dad.

What about abusive relationships?

What about a one night stand where the condom broke, tell me that guy has a right to force a woman he doesn't know to carry a pregnancy she doesn't want.

The ONLY time I think the dad should even be notified that there is a pregancy, is if that is his WIFE. And I don't think he should have a say in the matter, just that he deserves to know she is pregnant and he deserves to know if she is considering abortion. If he wants to try to talk her out of it, he should be able to try to talk her out of it. But, that's as far as it goes. I don't think he should be able to make the decision FOR her.[/b]

Im sorry you feel that way. But if it werent fr this mans sperm the child in question would not exist. If people really dont want kids and they know all the risks. Why should he be the only one protected? Why shouldnt she be on birth control condoms are not 100%. But if both were protected then this wopuldnt happen. Im sure if there was a one night stand and she kept the baby she would be dragging his butt into the court room for support. Dads have just as much rights as moms do they just dont push it. The baby never asked to be made.JMO
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  #26  
July 21st, 2007, 10:04 AM
Dayna1
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No, no, no. Just because someone SAYS they want to step up and be a dad, doesn't mean they WILL step up and be a dad.

What about abusive relationships?

What about a one night stand where the condom broke, tell me that guy has a right to force a woman he doesn't know to carry a pregnancy she doesn't want.

The ONLY time I think the dad should even be notified that there is a pregancy, is if that is his WIFE. And I don't think he should have a say in the matter, just that he deserves to know she is pregnant and he deserves to know if she is considering abortion. If he wants to try to talk her out of it, he should be able to try to talk her out of it. But, that's as far as it goes. I don't think he should be able to make the decision FOR her.[/b]

Im sorry you feel that way. But if it werent fr this mans sperm the child in question would not exist. If people really dont want kids and they know all the risks. Why should he be the only one protected? Why shouldnt she be on birth control condoms are not 100%. But if both were protected then this wopuldnt happen. Im sure if there was a one night stand and she kept the baby she would be dragging his butt into the court room for support. Dads have just as much rights as moms do they just dont push it. The baby never asked to be made.JMO
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  #27  
July 21st, 2007, 10:26 AM
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She doesn't want the baby? I don't see why she couldn't carry the baby, give birth then sign over HER rights.[/b]
She COULD, if that's what she decides to do. But no one should ever force another person to carry a pregnancy if they don't want to carry that pregnancy. Pregnancy can have a huge impact on someone's life. It can cause them to have to change jobs, it can cause them to feel so sick that they have to stop working altogether, etc.

So whether or not it is a "big deal" to ask someone to carry a pregnancy really depends on their current life.

It's NOT a big deal, for instance, if you work in an office or some other job that is not physically demanding, and you happen to have an easy pregnancy.

But it IS a big deal if someone is, say, in the middle of an academic program that they would have to quit if they are pregnant. Or they have a physical job (say, construction) and they'd have to quit their job if they get pregnant. Or maybe someone has a miserable pregnancy and has to spend half of it bent over the toilet and the other half on bedrest.

You don't know what kind of pregnancy someone else is going to have, or how it will impact their life. So no one should be able to make that committment to carrying a pregnancy, except the person DOING it.

The DAD is not the one who might get sick, the dad is not the one who might lose his job, his life is unaffected, his body is unaffected. He can have an opinion, and he can try to talk his SO into doing one thing or another, but ultimately it's her choice.
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  #28  
July 21st, 2007, 10:51 AM
Dayna1
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She doesn't want the baby? I don't see why she couldn't carry the baby, give birth then sign over HER rights.[/b]
The DAD is not the one who might get sick, the dad is not the one who might lose his job, his life is unaffected, his body is unaffected. He can have an opinion, and he can try to talk his SO into doing one thing or another, but ultimately it's her choice.
[/b]
But it is still his child.

I'm pro life, and if I lost my job due to being pregnant - then I don't want to work for them anyway.
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  #29  
July 21st, 2007, 11:01 AM
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if I lost my job due to being pregnant - then I don't want to work for them anyway.[/b]
What if you can't find another job? What if you're too sick to work due to your pregnancy? What if you have no savings? What if you run out of money and can't pay your rent, then you get evicted, you and your baby are now homeless. What if you have no family you can stay with?

This is not a perfect world we live in where everyone has
-a supportive family
-a man who will help them through the pregnancy
-an employer who will be ok with the pregnancy
-a savings to fall back on
-government housing to live in (in some places the waiting list to get into gov't housing goes on for YEARS, which would not help the mom in this situation).

Some people have none of the above. Should the pregnant mommy go live in her car then? What if she doesn't have one of those either?

A pregnancy can be a wonderful blessing! Or it can ruin someone's life.
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  #30  
July 21st, 2007, 11:21 AM
Dayna1
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if I lost my job due to being pregnant - then I don't want to work for them anyway.[/b]
What if you can't find another job? What if you're too sick to work due to your pregnancy? What if you have no savings? What if you run out of money and can't pay your rent, then you get evicted, you and your baby are now homeless. What if you have no family you can stay with?

This is not a perfect world we live in where everyone has
-a supportive family
-a man who will help them through the pregnancy
-an employer who will be ok with the pregnancy
-a savings to fall back on
-government housing to live in (in some places the waiting list to get into gov't housing goes on for YEARS, which would not help the mom in this situation).

Some people have none of the above. Should the pregnant mommy go live in her car then? What if she doesn't have one of those either?

A pregnancy can be a wonderful blessing! Or it can ruin someone's life.
[/b]
I don't think there is a good enough reason for the mother to abort a child. Period.
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  #32  
July 22nd, 2007, 05:59 AM
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Give a man the right to tell a woman what she can do with her body IF he choses her to keep the baby? What about aborting the baby? What if he decides he wants her to have an abortion but she doesn't? I think it's a stupid concept.
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Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dayna1 @ Jul 21 2007, 12:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotemain'>if I lost my job due to being pregnant - then I don't want to work for them anyway.[/b]
What if you can't find another job? What if you're too sick to work due to your pregnancy? What if you have no savings? What if you run out of money and can't pay your rent, then you get evicted, you and your baby are now homeless. What if you have no family you can stay with? This is not a perfect world we live in where everyone has -a supportive family-a man who will help them through the pregnancy-an employer who will be ok with the pregnancy-a savings to fall back on-government housing to live in (in some places the waiting list to get into gov't housing goes on for YEARS, which would not help the mom in this situation).Some people have none of the above. Should the pregnant mommy go live in her car then? What if she doesn't have one of those either?A pregnancy can be a wonderful blessing! Or it can ruin someone's life.[/b]
I don't think there is a good enough reason for the mother to abort a child. Period.[/b][/quote]Maybe not for you but who are you to say what someone else should do? If YOU don't like abortion, then don't have an abortion.[/b][/quote]Well If her wants her to abort then he should sign over all rights to the baby as i stated before hand. If she wants the baby and is goingto keep it , he doesnt then he should sign over all parental rights like a legal adoption but to the birth mom.
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if I lost my job due to being pregnant - then I don't want to work for them anyway.[/b]
What if you can't find another job? What if you're too sick to work due to your pregnancy? What if you have no savings? What if you run out of money and can't pay your rent, then you get evicted, you and your baby are now homeless. What if you have no family you can stay with? This is not a perfect world we live in where everyone has -a supportive family-a man who will help them through the pregnancy-an employer who will be ok with the pregnancy-a savings to fall back on-government housing to live in (in some places the waiting list to get into gov't housing goes on for YEARS, which would not help the mom in this situation).Some people have none of the above. Should the pregnant mommy go live in her car then? What if she doesn't have one of those either?A pregnancy can be a wonderful blessing! Or it can ruin someone's life.[/b]
Ok she cant be fired for being preggers its illegal. She can sue and eb a pretty rich women. As for how hard life is. Everyones life is hard but people make it harder when they give up. If you are willing to give up then a failure at life i deem. Also she wont be homeless. Its call government assistance. they will not deny a mother who has no job home ect ect. People see, to think the worst of everything. To have an abortion because they have no job ect or lose there job is failure. Abortion is not birth control. As for a non supportive family and a non supportive sperm donor. You dont need anyone. People rely way to much on others. Be independent do it yourself. But its easier to rely on someone else. for those who say its harder then you think well guess what I have been there its only as hard as you make it.
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  #34  
July 24th, 2007, 04:56 AM
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Oh ok, I get it....he should have complete CONTROL over the woman's body as long as it goes along with pro-life views. Makes perfect sense.. [/b]
Nop you are missing the fact that he should have say in his child. As i said before if she were to keep the baby she would be taking him to court for support ohh but he has say then right. Its his child to and her body will go back to the way it was. If it doesnt its because she didnt try. So basically no father should have say over his child but the mother should have all say well that makes perfect sense
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  #35  
July 24th, 2007, 08:45 AM
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Oh ok, I get it....he should have complete CONTROL over the woman's body as long as it goes along with pro-life views. Makes perfect sense.. [/b]
Nop you are missing the fact that he should have say in his child. As i said before if she were to keep the baby she would be taking him to court for support ohh but he has say then right. Its his child to and her body will go back to the way it was. If it doesnt its because she didnt try. So basically no father should have say over his child but the mother should have all say well that makes perfect sense
[/b]
Well, no. He can sign over his rights and then he won't have to pay child support. If she did decide to keep the baby, doesn't mean he has to pay for it.

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  #36  
July 25th, 2007, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
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Oh ok, I get it....he should have complete CONTROL over the woman's body as long as it goes along with pro-life views. Makes perfect sense.. [/b]
Nop you are missing the fact that he should have say in his child. As i said before if she were to keep the baby she would be taking him to court for support ohh but he has say then right. Its his child to and her body will go back to the way it was. If it doesnt its because she didnt try. So basically no father should have say over his child but the mother should have all say well that makes perfect sense
[/b]
Well, no. He can sign over his rights and then he won't have to pay child support. If she did decide to keep the baby, doesn't mean he has to pay for it.
[/b]

See theres a double standard. If she wants to keep it fine . If he doesnt want the baby sign over parental rights. But if he wants to keep the baby and she doesnt, she can kill the baby . She should have the baby and sign over parental rights. He is the father and should have rights and say.
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  #38  
July 25th, 2007, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
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Oh ok, I get it....he should have complete CONTROL over the woman's body as long as it goes along with pro-life views. Makes perfect sense.. [/b]
Nop you are missing the fact that he should have say in his child. As i said before if she were to keep the baby she would be taking him to court for support ohh but he has say then right. Its his child to and her body will go back to the way it was. If it doesnt its because she didnt try. So basically no father should have say over his child but the mother should have all say well that makes perfect sense
[/b]
What the heck does the woman's body going back to normal have anything to do with this debate? I'm sorry but as hard as I try, I can't make my stretch marks disappear

When the "child" is in the mother's womb it is her body and her decision. When it's born, they can have it out in court.

Quote:
<div class='quotemain'>
Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(coughburp @ Jul 22 2007, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotemain'>Oh ok, I get it....he should have complete CONTROL over the woman's body as long as it goes along with pro-life views. Makes perfect sense.. [/b]
Nop you are missing the fact that he should have say in his child. As i said before if she were to keep the baby she would be taking him to court for support ohh but he has say then right. Its his child to and her body will go back to the way it was. If it doesnt its because she didnt try. So basically no father should have say over his child but the mother should have all say well that makes perfect sense
[/b]
Well, no. He can sign over his rights and then he won't have to pay child support. If she did decide to keep the baby, doesn't mean he has to pay for it.
[/b][/quote]


See theres a double standard. If she wants to keep it fine . If he doesnt want the baby sign over parental rights. But if he wants to keep the baby and she doesnt, she can kill the baby . She should have the baby and sign over parental rights. He is the father and should have rights and say.
[/b][/quote]

He does have rights and a say....AFTER the baby is born.
[/b][/quote]

What about the child. Its a child not a choice. as for its her body no its their body. She should have thought about that b4 she had sex then. im sorry there are so many ways to be protected. The father should have rights if it werent for him the child wouldnt exist. As for stretch marks cry me a river adult enough to make the decision to have sex adult enough to own up. In my opinion they both have rights. Abportion is not birth control. yup it seems in others opinions that it only becomes his choice or anything to do with the baby when the baby is born. Then he is good for child support but nothing more. Thats BS. He has just as much right as she does.
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  #40  
July 26th, 2007, 04:05 AM
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And by doing that you are taking away her rights.[/b]

I see her rights her rights her rights. What about his right and the babies rights huh. Should they be void and null. Its not about her anymore when she is pregnant.
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