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A mans legal rights in a pregnancy


Abortion Debate

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  #1  
June 18th, 2007, 03:04 PM
kadydid
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Some of you believe that a man should have an equal say in what happens in a pregnancy, and whether or not she terminates the pregnancy. On one level I would agree with you, it would be nice if the woman would take the mans opinion into deep consideration and do what works best for both parties, but legally I would have to disagree.

What if the man wants her to have an abortion? Is he still an equal partner in this equation? Abortion is legal (or this probably wouldn’t even be a question) so if you think he should have a legal right to say no to her having an abortion, shouldn’t he also have a legal right to say yes she needs to get an abortion?

There is no 50-50 with what happens to a woman’s body. One side will always get the short end of the stick. I am of the opinion that the woman should hold the bigger stick, whatever position she favors for her pregnancy.

*Just to make clear, I am not limiting his right to an opinion or the right to voice his opinion. I am talking about him being able to legally force his opinion on the woman.
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  #2  
June 18th, 2007, 03:12 PM
*Aspen*
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i agree with you
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  #4  
June 18th, 2007, 05:57 PM
kadydid
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Quote:
Since I am prolife, I'd have to say that he should most definitely have a say if he is opposed to abortion, and the other way around if she was opposed to abortion (so basically, whoever wanted the abortion, on either side, had the 'lesser stick'). Hope that made sense. [/b]
Figures

But seriously, do you think a man really has the right to choose what a woman does with the pregnancy? He either has the right or he doesn't have the right. (regardless of what choice he makes)





I rarely hear of men who are begging the women to keep the pregnancy so he can raise it. But I have heard more than a few times of men who really put the pressure on for a woman to abort. I think if people are going to actually argue that a man should have this equal right in deciding, they have to take the good with the bad. None of this, I support your right to choose as long as your choice goes along with my beliefs.
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  #5  
June 18th, 2007, 06:31 PM
LaceyMommy2B
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i see it like this, in the case of adoption.. can the biological mother give up their child, without the father's permission? no, the father has a right to keep the baby himself if he wants-its HIS biological child. can the biological father give up the child, without the mother's permission? no, the mother can keep the child herself if she wants. if they BOTH want to give the child up for adoption, they can. both parents should have the right to keep the child if they want since its their child, if only ONE wants to give the child up/abort.. the other should have the right to keep the baby alone.
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  #6  
June 18th, 2007, 08:03 PM
Ms.Michelle
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^ So basically it's a pro-life double standard?
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  #7  
June 18th, 2007, 08:40 PM
kadydid
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Quote:
i see it like this, in the case of adoption.. can the biological mother give up their child, without the father's permission? no, the father has a right to keep the baby himself if he wants-its HIS biological child. can the biological father give up the child, without the mother's permission? no, the mother can keep the child herself if she wants. if they BOTH want to give the child up for adoption, they can. both parents should have the right to keep the child if they want since its their child, if only ONE wants to give the child up/abort.. the other should have the right to keep the baby alone.[/b]
Hmmmm So yes, you think the man should have equal rights to be able to take over the woman’s body? Am I reading this right?

Quote:
^ So basically it's a pro-life double standard?[/b]
I think I might be sensing a double standard too. maybe not though.
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  #8  
June 18th, 2007, 08:49 PM
LaceyMommy2B
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well, you should know, being prolife, i dont see the baby as being "the womans body." i see it as the man being able to save his child.
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  #9  
June 18th, 2007, 08:56 PM
kadydid
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But that is not the question.

So fine not take over the womans body (even though that is what he is doing)....Should he have a legal right to decide what happens to the fetus? (that is in the womans body)

ETA This is not about your opinion on if you think what he is doing is right or wrong. This is about his legal right to have a say in what happens to the fetus.
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  #10  
June 18th, 2007, 09:16 PM
LaceyMommy2B
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im prolife, all your gonna get out of me are prolife answers .. in the case of saving the "fetus" yes, he should have the right. i dont think that EITHER should have the right to END the "potential life" of the "fetus."
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  #11  
June 18th, 2007, 09:31 PM
kadydid
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Quote:
im prolife, all your gonna get out of me are prolife answers[/b]
How is saying no the man does not have a legal right to decide what happens inside a womans body go against being pro-life?

I hear people complain not just on this site, but all over the place that men do not have enough rights to the fetus. If you give someone rights to something they can do with it what they like as long as it is legal. Currently abortion is legal. Either he has equal rights or he doesn't.
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  #12  
June 18th, 2007, 10:20 PM
LaceyMommy2B
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i guess my only opinion (legal-wise) on THIS matter, is that neither should have the option of aborting the fetus, without the others consent. honestly, i dont think it should be legal period, but since it is, i think when abortion is considered, both parents must agree in order for it to happen. just like giving a child up. both have to want to give it up in order to give it up (give it up meaning to a different couple, not to either of the bio parents), only one has to want to keep the baby and has the right to.

do u also think that if a woman wants to give the baby up for adoption, the father shouldnt have a choice?

(i guess thats different to you tho, cause at that point its a born child, not a fetus. i see them both as "babies" tho )
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  #13  
June 18th, 2007, 11:14 PM
kadydid
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Quote:
i guess my only opinion (legal-wise) on THIS matter, is that neither should have the option of aborting the fetus, without the others consent. honestly, i dont think it should be legal period, but since it is, i think when abortion is considered, both parents must agree in order for it to happen. just like giving a child up. both have to want to give it up in order to give it up (give it up meaning to a different couple, not to either of the bio parents), only one has to want to keep the baby and has the right to.

do u also think that if a woman wants to give the baby up for adoption, the father shouldnt have a choice?

(i guess thats different to you tho, cause at that point its a born child, not a fetus. i see them both as "babies" tho )[/b]
So it is a double standard.

My point is people make these bold statements like
“it’s his baby too, he should have a right to make decisions” or
“He should be involved in all the decisions and have an equal say” etc. etc. (paraphrasing things I have heard for years on this site and others)

I honestly don’t think when people make these statements they really think the man should have an equal say. The only time they say things like this is when he wants to keep the pregnancy. If the man wanted her to have an abortion, they would call him a bum and say his opinion doesn’t matter.



I feel for any guy who is caught in a situation he wished he had more control over. It’s definitely not fair that she has more rights, but life isn’t fair. There is really no way to really give a man an equal say without letting him take over the woman’s body. (not yet anyway)

Quote:
do u also think that if a woman wants to give the baby up for adoption, the father shouldnt have a choice?[/b]
Once it is out of the womb, he has the same rights as the mother.
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  #14  
June 18th, 2007, 11:24 PM
kadydid
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Oh and in case I get flamed, I probably won’t have much time to respond until tomorrow afternoon. We have a busy morning. Hopefully I can sneak on though.
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  #15  
June 18th, 2007, 11:24 PM
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Ditto to everything Kady has said.
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  #16  
June 19th, 2007, 05:29 AM
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Nope. My body, my choice. As long as abortion is legal I think that the woman should have the final say in all of it. Of course on a moral level she should take the mans feelings into consideration but on a legal level she should be able to have the control, it is HER body.
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  #17  
June 23rd, 2007, 10:23 AM
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I agree that men should have equal legal rights over a CHILD....but a fetus is not a child. There is NO child (a child does not legally/medically exist) until birth - so a man is not a legal father to any fetus. If a man is not a legal father - then he has no legal rights OR legal responsibilities. I mean you don't pay child support for a 6 week along pregnancy.

It seems to me that the pro-life side is not *really* in support of *equal* rights for fathers. They paint a pretty little picture of equality - but a pretty little picture is all it is. It seems to me that this whole "fathers rights" issue is being pushed not because they care for a man's connection to an embryo - but because they realize that they personally have NO power over a woman's choice - so they are attempting to recruite others (fathers) to controol the woman for them - by making an argument that they have a legal right to do so (ONLY if they make the choice they want them to make - which is the always under every cercomstance force pregnancy). The whole fathers rights issue is about getting a leg up on the women. About finding as many ways as possible to restrict her access to abortion and health care. Equal rights are equal rights. I wonder if pro-lifers would support and fight for a man's right to force an abortion? If thier ONLY issue is that the man has the legal right to choice then they should support him no matter what choice he makes - even if it is one that they do not agree with. If they do not support him then they do not support "equal" rights. If a woman has a right to an abortion then a man's right to force an abortion on a woman would amount to "equal" (not in my mind but by thier logic). If they can't do that then this issue is NOT in ANY WAY about legal rights for fathers - it is about controoling women and trying to restrict thier access to health care by any means avaliable.

That being said thier can be no such thing as "equal" rights over 1 body. It is the woman's body. She has full rights over her own body AND it's contents. The man has fulls rights over his body and it's contents. They both share rights over a born child equally - a child who has it's OWN body - and who can survive free of it's mothers life support systems. The idea that the party whose body IS NOT being put through a medical procedure should have MORE say then the person whose body IS being put through the medical procedure (yes birth is just as much a "medical procedure" as abortion - it usually requires hospital stay and often times drugs and surgery exc) is totally backwards. Thats like slavery. You can' force someone to go throguh the trauma of birth just because you want them to. There are RISKS that ONLY the person whose body is being used can concent to. No one can concent to those risks for her - because no one other then her self will suffer the concequence of those risks. The notion that some people believe a man has the right to FORCE a woman through something traumatic and painful just for his own satisfaction - into motherhood with out her concent - is just horrifying. I can't believe anyone would be so cruel as to reduce any woman into SLAVERY for the sake of an embryo or the desires of a third party.
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  #18  
June 23rd, 2007, 10:30 AM
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Oh an I wanted to add - that thier is nothing unequal about abortion. A man can not carry a fetus. He gets no say. The moment men can gestate - and woman can force a man to abort or give birth - THEN I will support "equal" rights. That would truley be equal. One party controoling the body of another is NOT equal.
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  #20  
June 23rd, 2007, 02:12 PM
Ms.Michelle
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mlynn, I loved the way you put that together. It absolutely is like slavery.

pumpkinandpudding, I'm going to have DH read your post. He is fasinated with the US Constitution recently and Ron Paul in the Presidency race. I'm sure he'll have something to say about your post because he was just talking about abortion and the Constitution.. (I tuned it out.)
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