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How can you be pro-life AND pro capital punishment?


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  #1  
July 1st, 2007, 09:02 AM
Bre+Will=Reid
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Now, let me expose my belly, as many of you (especially Stacey) seem to think that I'm a complete clueless anti-feminist idiot. (warm, no?) How is it that I can be pro-life, but pro capital punishment? How can I be pro-life, but in my heart, empathize with assisted suicide in the most extreme cases? If I stood solid on my belief that taking a life = murder, how could I support those things?

My honest answer? I have no idea. I am an empathetic person, and I feel that my morals come from my heart, always. I realize that there may be contradictions in my beliefs, and I accept that.

When it comes to capital punishment vs. abortion, is it a difference of innocent vs. the non-innocent? Something else? I would love to hear everyones thoughts on the topic, especially those pro-life.



*edited to fix a type-o*
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  #3  
July 1st, 2007, 10:34 AM
Bre+Will=Reid
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First, I've got to say that I find it awesome for you to be even remotely interested for others to ask (and answer) this question. I like when people can see the hypocrisy embedded in his/her beliefs and owns it (it makes me feel less alone, lol)! Kudos to you

It's probably the whole issue between innocent vs 'guilty' (though, there have been many cases--one would be too many, IMO--where the innocent are convicted to death, and later on evidence reveals them as innocent). Even if the judicial systerm was flawless ( ), I still would not accept capital punishment as an appropriate sentence. To me, all life should be dealt with by the hands of God (and that individual--but that is an entirely different debate--), and I don't believe anyone should have the right to kill another human being (and actually, yes, this extends to animals--again, a whole 'nother debate!). Capital punishment, IMHO, is murder. Murder does not have to involved 'guilty killing innocent'. It could most definitely be the other way around...though, I do NOT consider society (which allows capital punishment to be carried out through voting those who are pro-capital punishment into the system), as an innocent by-stander. They are as guilty as the crime in question is itself. You (society, etc.) are killing for revenge, not justice. That is malicious, and that is murder.[/b]
This is exactly what I was looking for in this thread This really struck a cord with me. I always thought that I was pro-capital punishment, and the first time I had to question myself was when the verdict was read for Scott Peterson. Death. It didn't sit right with me. Oh man, he is guilty as sin (pardon the expression, lol) and there is no punishment great enough for what he did to his beautiful wife and unborn son. That being said, I looked at him as human in a way that I did not previously do with others on death row. Maybe because the crime happened so close to me, or maybe, it's because he appeared to be this all American guy. I don't know. Yet again, I cannot always explain my feelings. I began to think, what right do we have to take the life of another? Scott Peterson most certainly didn't have the right.....so do two "wrongs" make a right? We DO have the right to keep this horrible man off of the streets by condemning him to life in prision, that's our duty to society. Men like this cannot walk free. But to kill him? I don't know about that.

Then again, I think "what if that had been my sister? My mother? My child?" I can tell you with 100% certainty that I would want that man dead. I wouldn't care if it was fair, it would be far too emotional for me. Recently, my mom was at work alone and got robbed by 3 men. Thank God she wasn't hurt, but when I got that phone call, I was in a rage. In that moment, if those 3 men had been placed in front of me, I would have cast the first stone. I am human. I am a sinner. Does that make it right? No, it doesn't. It would be for revenge, it would be for selfish (although justified) reasons.





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  #4  
July 1st, 2007, 12:05 PM
mommyKathyX3
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I'm pro-life, but honestly dont know where I stand with captial punishment. On one hand I dont think its right to take someones life as "punishment/revenge" whatever, but on the OTHER hand, why should MORE people suffer to keep this murderer alive by having to pay for his life? I think that if prison systems were better dealt with then I would do away with CP. There are some prisons that make the prisoners actually work for thier living costs. And they are minimal, but sufficiant for living. Its a darned if you do darned if you dont situation.
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  #5  
July 1st, 2007, 12:17 PM
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technically, i guess i'm not pro-life. when it pertains to abortion, i'm pro-life all the way. but in general, i guess you would have to say that i'm anti-abortion, rather than pro-life because i do believe in cp. i also see it as innocent vs. not innocent. most of the time, ppl on death row chose to do whatever crime it was to get him there, but babies don't ask to be conceived so i don't feel they should die. does that make any sense??
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  #7  
July 1st, 2007, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm pro-life, but honestly dont know where I stand with captial punishment. On one hand I dont think its right to take someones life as "punishment/revenge" whatever, but on the OTHER hand, why should MORE people suffer to keep this murderer alive by having to pay for his life? I think that if prison systems were better dealt with then I would do away with CP. There are some prisons that make the prisoners actually work for thier living costs. And they are minimal, but sufficiant for living. Its a darned if you do darned if you dont situation.[/b]
Doesn't it cost more to kill someone than to keep them alive? I have heard that the cost is more in the long run.

Quote:
technically, i guess i'm not pro-life. when it pertains to abortion, i'm pro-life all the way. but in general, i guess you would have to say that i'm anti-abortion, rather than pro-life because i do believe in cp. i also see it as innocent vs. not innocent. most of the time, ppl on death row chose to do whatever crime it was to get him there, but babies don't ask to be conceived so i don't feel they should die. does that make any sense??[/b]
Most of the time, people are guilty of the crime in question. What about those who aren't?

And when did God give bestow you the right to kill? Except in specific situations (such as direct self-defense), I thought that the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill' applied to everyone? That judgment is reserved for Him only?

Two wrongs do not make a right. How can killing for revenge be right? How can we say in one breath, 'killing is wrong, you cannot kill' and then in the next 'Killing is just, you can kill'. It doesn't make sense at all. The whole concept is completely hypocritical.

ETA: emoticon.
[/b]
i agree it does sound very hypocritical...however, i see it as a punishment rather than me just going out to kill someone. i think of it as a person has done something horrible(ie. killing someone) and the consequence for that act is death. this is a consequence for any and everything you do and death is just that.
i do agree though that it does sound very hypocritical......and maybe my thoughts on this subject will change later in life.
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  #9  
July 1st, 2007, 01:13 PM
Tofu Bacon
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i agree it does sound very hypocritical...however, i see it as a punishment rather than me just going out to kill someone. i think of it as a person has done something horrible(ie. killing someone) and the consequence for that act is death. this is a consequence for any and everything you do and death is just that.
i do agree though that it does sound very hypocritical......and maybe my thoughts on this subject will change later in life.[/b]
That's taking the "eye for an eye" passages to the extreme; the idea was to assign a punishment that fits the crime, not to mirror the crime.
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  #10  
July 1st, 2007, 01:19 PM
Tofu Bacon
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But didn't Jesus (not trying to make this religious, but since you are Christian I can't resist!), teach that 'an eye for an eye' is wrong, and to rather 'to the other cheek'?[/b]
Jesus wasn't necessarily speaking about criminals and serious crimes like murder, but about loving your enemies. Just letting it be because they are more in need of your love and forgiveness than getting even.

"But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them." (Luke 6:27-31)
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  #11  
July 1st, 2007, 04:12 PM
eash's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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It is called being a Republican - just kidding.
I don't see how you can value the life of an unborn child more than a person already on earth (even if he/she committed a horrible crime.) So, I think it is extremely hypocritical to be pro-life and pro-capital punishment.
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  #13  
July 1st, 2007, 04:59 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar I'm climbin' in yo window
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Now, let me expose my belly, as many of you (especially Stacey) seem to think that I'm a complete clueless anti-feminist idiot. (warm, no?)[/b]
HMMMM, now I think this is crossing a line. Not once, at all, have I stated anything about you personally. I view this as a bit of an attack as it is slightly defamatory and insinuates that I have at one point or another made a personal attack on your character. You know that is not true, and I resent the implication that anything of such nature has occurred. I can seperate the debate from personal feelings, you seem to be unable to do so.
Quote:
How is it that I can be pro-life, but pro capital punishment? How can I be pro-life, but in my heart, empathize with assisted suicide in the most extreme cases? If I stood solid on my belief that taking a life = murder, how could I support those things?

My honest answer? I have no idea. I am an empathetic person, and I feel that my morals come from my heart, always. I realize that there may be contradictions in my beliefs, and I accept that.

When it comes to capital punishment vs. abortion, is it a difference of innocent vs. the non-innocent? Something else? I would love to hear everyones thoughts on the topic, especially those pro-life.[/b]
I am pro-choice, pro-death penalty and pro-euthanasia.
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  #15  
July 1st, 2007, 05:32 PM
kadydid
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I am pro-choice, pro-death penalty and pro-euthanasia.[/b]
Is that a Texas thing? J/K
[/b]
*snort*

I am pro-choice, anti death penalty, and pro euthanasia, I already stated on the Capital Punishment thread why I am against it, but its not because I feel sorry for the criminal.
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  #16  
July 1st, 2007, 05:35 PM
Bre+Will=Reid
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Now, let me expose my belly, as many of you (especially Stacey) seem to think that I'm a complete clueless anti-feminist idiot. (warm, no?)[/b]
HMMMM, now I think this is crossing a line. Not once, at all, have I stated anything about you personally. I view this as a bit of an attack as it is slightly defamatory and insinuates that I have at one point or another made a personal attack on your character. You know that is not true, and I resent the implication that anything of such nature has occurred. I can seperate the debate from personal feelings, you seem to be unable to do so.
Quote:
How is it that I can be pro-life, but pro capital punishment? How can I be pro-life, but in my heart, empathize with assisted suicide in the most extreme cases? If I stood solid on my belief that taking a life = murder, how could I support those things?

My honest answer? I have no idea. I am an empathetic person, and I feel that my morals come from my heart, always. I realize that there may be contradictions in my beliefs, and I accept that.

When it comes to capital punishment vs. abortion, is it a difference of innocent vs. the non-innocent? Something else? I would love to hear everyones thoughts on the topic, especially those pro-life.[/b]
I am pro-choice, pro-death penalty and pro-euthanasia.
[/b]
Not a personal attack at all, I was simply trying to make light on you calling my posts "stupid" and "complete idiotcy"
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  #17  
July 1st, 2007, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Now, let me expose my belly, as many of you (especially Stacey) seem to think that I'm a complete clueless anti-feminist idiot. (warm, no?)[/b]
HMMMM, now I think this is crossing a line. Not once, at all, have I stated anything about you personally. I view this as a bit of an attack as it is slightly defamatory and insinuates that I have at one point or another made a personal attack on your character. You know that is not true, and I resent the implication that anything of such nature has occurred. I can seperate the debate from personal feelings, you seem to be unable to do so.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
<div class='quotemain'>How is it that I can be pro-life, but pro capital punishment? How can I be pro-life, but in my heart, empathize with assisted suicide in the most extreme cases? If I stood solid on my belief that taking a life = murder, how could I support those things?

My honest answer? I have no idea. I am an empathetic person, and I feel that my morals come from my heart, always. I realize that there may be contradictions in my beliefs, and I accept that.

When it comes to capital punishment vs. abortion, is it a difference of innocent vs. the non-innocent? Something else? I would love to hear everyones thoughts on the topic, especially those pro-life.[/b]
I am pro-choice, pro-death penalty and pro-euthanasia.
[/b][/quote]

Not a personal attack at all, I was simply trying to make light on you calling my posts "stupid" and "complete idiotcy"
[/b][/quote]
I was referring to the question. If you are unable to separate one debate from the next, then you need to take a step back. If you cannot keep from taking things personally, that are not personal, then you need to take a step back. If you cannot avoid being defamatory and making outright lies and falsehoods, then you need to step back.
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  #18  
July 1st, 2007, 05:53 PM
Bre+Will=Reid
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Woah woah woah. Maybe you should read the rules of your own board, because I know that I did before I started posting here. There is no need, EVER, to use the words that you did. Whereas YOU were the one making personal attacks, (when was the last time you heard the words "bull s***" in a professional debate?) I simply made light of your attacks by making a joke, uhm, you know, hence the laughing smiley face and the own comical retort at myself. This thread that I created was my way of opening up to those (aka you) who seem to think that I have no idea what I am taking about and have no grasp of reality. Your comments, whether directed at me or my posts, certainly reflect that stance, and gave me nothing but a bad taste in my mouth.

Hey, I listen to you, I read your posts. I respect your opinions, and you seem to be fairly educated on your stance. BUT, when I can scroll through one page of posts and find half a dozen defamatory words from YOU directed towards ME and MY opinions and MY words, I have a bit of a problem with that.

But again, THIS thread included the comment that it did not to get you up on a high horse, but to make a joke. Pardon me. I apologize that it offended you so.


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  #20  
July 1st, 2007, 06:20 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar I'm climbin' in yo window
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Woah woah woah. Maybe you should read the rules of your own board, because I know that I did before I started posting here. There is no need, EVER, to use the words that you did. Whereas YOU were the one making personal attacks, (when was the last time you heard the words "bull s***" in a professional debate?) I simply made light of your attacks by making a joke, uhm, you know, hence the laughing smiley face and the own comical retort at myself. This thread that I created was my way of opening up to those (aka you) who seem to think that I have no idea what I am taking about and have no grasp of reality. Your comments, whether directed at me or my posts, certainly reflect that stance, and gave me nothing but a bad taste in my mouth.

Hey, I listen to you, I read your posts. I respect your opinions, and you seem to be fairly educated on your stance. BUT, when I can scroll through one page of posts and find half a dozen defamatory words from YOU directed towards ME and MY opinions and MY words, I have a bit of a problem with that.

But again, THIS thread included the comment that it did not to get you up on a high horse, but to make a joke. Pardon me. I apologize that it offended you so.[/b]
I never made any insults to you, personally, and you know it. I was referring to your QUESTION!! If you cannot separate my opinion of your question and my opinion of you (which I have none) then that is something you need to work out. I am completely entitled to refer to your question as ridiculous. At no time did I refer to YOU, personally, in a derogatory manner. I suggest that you look up the definition of defame, because I never made any defamatory marks about YOU, I simply called the question you asked ridiculous. Get it straight.

For future reference, if you have a personal problem with me, I suggest you take it up via PMs instead of being childish and starting an new thread on your complete misunderstanding and inability to separate debate from personal issues.

Quote:
LOL this thread just cracks me up. One minute we are allowed to joke, the next we are not. (Breanna, unless you've been lurking in the main board for awhile, you probably don't know what I am referring to, LOL).

ETA: last sentence.[/b]
Excuse me? This exceeds a joke! Had this been left in the other thread, that would have been one thing. People could look through the thread and see that she is completely lying. However, seeing as she decided to start a new thread and open it by insinuating that I had made personal attacks upon her character, that is a different ball game. I never made any attacks upon her as a person, or her character, I made comments about a question she posed in a different thread. She cannot keep from taking those things personally and bringing it into another thread and implying that something happened that did not and I will not lay down and allow it, and neither would you Cece!
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