This forum is for Abortion debate only. If you are highly sensitive about this topic, read at your own discretion.
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I'm typically not one to debate abortion - but this is something weighing on my mind lately & this is relaly the only appropriate place to post it.
How do you define abortion? Seem straight forward? I thought so until only recently. Let me explain & then you can give me your thoughts
I've flipflopped on this issue the last 10 yrs or so of my life.
At 19, I got pg, seriously considered abortion, was just strting to consider keeping the baby when I found out I was farther along than I thought, and had no choice but to keep the baby (was too far along to abort). I am happy with my decision, of course. I love my son to pieces, and cant imagine life without him. I have since had a (planned) baby and that really enforced a lot of pro-life values in me. Though I still am personally pro-life, I have struggled b/c I do believe there are many situations where a woman deserves to have a choice. So outwardly & for others I am pro-choice to an extent.
Well - recently, a situation has shaken all of my beliefs.
I began volutneering for an organization that helps families - I do photography & we go into hospitals (or wherever) to take professional pictures for families experienceing an early infant loss. Its an extremely hard thing to do - but knowing that were giving a family a lifetime of memories makes it all worthwhile.
Well - speaking with fellow photog's - I discovered that MANY Of them get called to photograph in situations where the mother received her "standard" 20 wk ultrasound - often a bit early (as is quite common) - at say 15 - 18 weeks, and discovered that the baby had a severe condition - sometimes the baby will be severely deformed, perhaps have a high likelihood of struggling & dying after birth or needing life support, and sometimes having conditions that they know for a fact that the baby will die. Theres of course debate over whether they KNOW that - but the situatons range from the baby having very poor chances of living to there being a 100% chance of death statistically.
Many of these mothers are given the choice to a) "abort" by having a "D&C", b ) abort the pregnancy by inducing labor, knowing that the babys lungs are too immature to live regardless, or c) carry the baby to term, regardless - knowing that they will likely deliver a stillborn baby b/c they couldnt tolerate birth, will die sometime (or may already be dead) and will have to just wait to go into labor naturally or the baby will die minutes, hours, or days after birth.
Many of these mothers choose to induce labor.
By medical definition - it is abortion. I NEVER knew this existed, primarily b/c the two hospitals in this area that have the capability of even doing deliveries of any kind prior to 34 weeks gestation are both catholic hospitals & prohibit these practices b/c they are considered abortions. But for-profit hospitals (which most hospitals are) and those that are not catholic based, most do allow it or at least have a minimum gestation (most are 20 - 25 weeks). In this area, women choosing to end their pregnancy whether by induction or D&C must go to the "abortion" clinic - family planning. Our area is widely known for a shooting of an abortion dr. by a local pro-life organization. It completely changes my POV - I used to be so torn thinking of those women who visit that clinic as simply not wanting their baby - when I now realize, not necessarily. Perhaps their baby has Trisomy 18, and this was a heart wrenching decision but she simply emotionally & mentally could not proceed with this (god knows Id struggle with it), or perhaps her baby is already dead. it could be so many things. I never realized that these inductions like this even happened, and to learn that they were abortion puts a whole new light on it.
Many people discuss the issue not considering these as abortion - but abortion laws effect these as well. To forbid abortions except when the mothers life is at danger would force these mothers to carry to term, regardless of the babys condition. Perhaps she physically can carry to term, but mentally shes now traumatized from carrying a baby inside her that she knows shell have to watch die, and to wait 4 months for that to happen has got to be torture.
of course, even that is a heated debate - whether to let nature run its course, or to end the pregnancy - regardless of by D&C or induction.
But, I do want to ask this - when you debate abortion... how do you define it?
Do you consider these situations?
(I certainly never did).
Do you have any feelings on this? My initial feelings were to not allow a mother to induce just b/c the baby might have a poor chance of making it - let nature decide. But - in all honesty - could I do it? I dont know. If I knew that my baby could struggle for days or hours or even minutes, would I choose that path? Would I be able to spend 3... 4... 5 months waiting for that day? What on earth woudl *I* do?
I define abortion as anytime a women is pregnant with a child and an outside force purposely does an act that ends the child's life.
So we think these Doctors know EVERYTHING!! I don't think there are any tests that can be done that are 100% accurate. I know a lady that just because she was over 40 had to have all kinds of tests done. Which I think is stupid. If a women can still get pregnant it means her body can still carry a healthy child. I was 40 when I delivered my last very healthy baby boy. Anyway the tests came back that this child was going to have sever problems. They never even considered abortion. The child was born PERFECTLY NORMAL!! That doctor put that family through so much and he was TOTALLY WRONG!!
So whenever someone says they had to do it because tests came back that so and so was going to be wrong. I cringe that a perfectly normal baby could be sacrificed.
If a child dies inside her mother's womb I do not consider that to be abortion because the child is no longer living. In these very sad situations wouldn't they take care of that at a hospital not an abortion clinic.
You talked about a women being mentally traumatized if she had to carry a child that something MIGHT be wrong with. Don't you think the women that end up having abortions aren't mentally traumatized? They have to live with their decision the rest of their lives. Later when everything is over and then realizing what she had done. You said it yourself you were considering abortion, what if you had gone in a little sooner to abort. Your precious little angel would not be here. You can't imagine life without him you said. When you were considering abortion did any of the counselors tell you about some of the feelings you may have if you chose abortion?
NO ONE knows for sure what what will happen! I say let nature take it's course! I would rather put my trust in GOD then man!!
Great points. In the situations above, that I described, where *I* personally started seeing thick gray lines, are when ultrasound, amnio, etc confirm majro deformities. In some of these cases, Trisomy 18, No kidneys, no skull, no brain, etc. Where a definite diagnosis is made that has a 99% or higher accuracy. I do agree that those initial blood tests arent worth the vials theyre collected in. But what I'm referring to are the ones beyond those - where were talking confirmed severe severe medical conditions or deformities (some of these babies with anecephaly, etc).
initial blood tests arent worth the vials theyre collected in. But what I'm referring to are the ones beyond those - where were talking confirmed severe severe medical conditions or deformities (some of these babies with anecephaly, etc).
I don't consider it an abortion if the baby is going to die (no brain for instance means NO chance that the baby will survive).