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would you abort if you were raped?


Abortion Debate

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View Poll Results: Would you abort if you were raped?
yes most definitely 91 25.49%
no absolutely not 166 46.50%
not sure 100 28.01%
Voters: 357. You may not vote on this poll

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  #2  
December 7th, 2007, 04:56 PM
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No I wouldn't. Why not? Because it's still my child regardless of how he/she was made and I 100% disagree with abortion.
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  #3  
December 8th, 2007, 02:26 PM
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I think this is a question that, unless actually faced with the decision, it is not possible to answer. First of all, it is impossible to imagine or assume the full scope of how such an event would impact you, physically or emotionally. Second of all, rape is not a cookie cutter crime, it is different for every single victim, from the degree and details of the attack to the recovery (and reporting if applicable) process and the victim's support system.
It is easy to mount the saddle on one's high horse and sanctimoniously proclaim "NO, NEVER!", but I consider it unrealistic, as well as insensitive. To answer the question, without the experience to draw from, you are, perhaps without realizing it, denigrating the victims of rape because the implication that you would have handled it correctly translates to your belief that they weren't strong enough, compounding the guilt and shame that victims already carry with them for a lifetime.
Even as someone who has experienced rape, I could never answer the question for anyone else. I know, had my experience resulted in pregnancy, I would have had an abortion. I cannot, however, speculate on a potential future decision if, God forbid, I were ever raped again because, again, I cannot and would not attempt to imagine every hypothetical detail, with every varying degree of violence and humiliation involved or the impact of the psychological trauma and/or physical injury that may result.
My point is, even if you were reading the graphic details of a violent rape, empathy is possible but the true nature of the experience is unimaginable and it is, therefore, impossible to postulate on the methods and measures that would necessitate your physical and psychological survival.
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  #4  
December 8th, 2007, 06:42 PM
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I can not answer that unless I am in the circumstance. And I would not pass judgement either way.
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  #5  
December 9th, 2007, 08:05 AM
chloe82
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I don't know if it is fair to say that anyone who says that they feel sure that they would not get an abortion is being insensitive, mounting their high horse, and/or denigrating the victims of rape.
It is a very personal question and as I'm sure there are many people who *know* they would not get an abortion and end up getting one after such an experience there must also be many who *know* they would not get one and indeed do not. I am as sure as I could be at this point in my life, given my own personal beliefs about abortion, that I would not get one if I were raped. I understand if someone else thinks that perhaps that is unrealistic, but to say it is insensitive, judgemental, arrogant or whatever else is implied by the term "mounting your high horse" is a bit of a stretch to me. I'm only stating my own personal beliefs as asked by the OP, trying to predict my OWN behaviour in a hypothetical situation, not extending a blanket of judgement over anyone who chooses differently in a situation like that.
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  #6  
December 9th, 2007, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
I don't know if it is fair to say that anyone who says that they feel sure that they would not get an abortion is being insensitive, mounting their high horse, and/or denigrating the victims of rape.
It is a very personal question and as I'm sure there are many people who *know* they would not get an abortion and end up getting one after such an experience there must also be many who *know* they would not get one and indeed do not. I am as sure as I could be at this point in my life, given my own personal beliefs about abortion, that I would not get one if I were raped. I understand if someone else thinks that perhaps that is unrealistic, but to say it is insensitive, judgemental, arrogant or whatever else is implied by the term "mounting your high horse" is a bit of a stretch to me. I'm only stating my own personal beliefs as asked by the OP, trying to predict my OWN behaviour in a hypothetical situation, not extending a blanket of judgement over anyone who chooses differently in a situation like that.[/b]
And, you might have noticed that my response elaborated beyond one sentence, but I will reiderate.

You CANNOT accurately predict an outcome if you cannot accurately hypothesize, any and all of, the potential details of the rape. If the OP was written with a, graphically detailed, account of a hypothetical rape scenario and included specific descriptions of the physical injuries that were sustained, the credibility of the responses might be worthy of minimum consideration, but in this instance I stand by what I previously stated.

Rape is NOT black and white. It is NOT always limited to forcible penetration of a penis into a vagina. Rape victimizes all kinds of people in all kinds of ways. It can involve children, mentally disabled or senior citizens. Some victims are attacked by strangers, friends, spouses or a group of attackers. Rape can involve oral sex, vaginal sex and/or sodomy (using genitals or inanimate objects). Recovery from rape can range from various degrees of emotional and psychological trauma, bruises, cuts or, in some cases surgery.

So, no, you cannot put yourself into every forseeable or unforseeable scenario of rape and imagine how it will impact you physically, much less psychologically. Imagining a rape that involves the least amount of violence and injury and predicting your reaction is unrealistic enough, but to believe you have the ability to prognosticate those choices and decisions in the worst case scenario is pompous and insensitive.
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  #7  
December 9th, 2007, 08:25 PM
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she came here too!!! she's quick! if you look....she was banned for faking!!! crazy ppl these days!!!
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  #8  
December 10th, 2007, 05:21 AM
chloe82
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she came here too!!! she's quick! if you look....she was banned for faking!!! crazy ppl these days!!![/b]
What???
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  #9  
December 10th, 2007, 05:43 AM
chloe82
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't know if it is fair to say that anyone who says that they feel sure that they would not get an abortion is being insensitive, mounting their high horse, and/or denigrating the victims of rape.
It is a very personal question and as I'm sure there are many people who *know* they would not get an abortion and end up getting one after such an experience there must also be many who *know* they would not get one and indeed do not. I am as sure as I could be at this point in my life, given my own personal beliefs about abortion, that I would not get one if I were raped. I understand if someone else thinks that perhaps that is unrealistic, but to say it is insensitive, judgemental, arrogant or whatever else is implied by the term "mounting your high horse" is a bit of a stretch to me. I'm only stating my own personal beliefs as asked by the OP, trying to predict my OWN behaviour in a hypothetical situation, not extending a blanket of judgement over anyone who chooses differently in a situation like that.[/b]
And, you might have noticed that my response elaborated beyond one sentence, but I will reiderate.

You CANNOT accurately predict an outcome if you cannot accurately hypothesize, any and all of, the potential details of the rape. If the OP was written with a, graphically detailed, account of a hypothetical rape scenario and included specific descriptions of the physical injuries that were sustained, the credibility of the responses might be worthy of minimum consideration, but in this instance I stand by what I previously stated.

Rape is NOT black and white. It is NOT always limited to forcible penetration of a penis into a vagina. Rape victimizes all kinds of people in all kinds of ways. It can involve children, mentally disabled or senior citizens. Some victims are attacked by strangers, friends, spouses or a group of attackers. Rape can involve oral sex, vaginal sex and/or sodomy (using genitals or inanimate objects). Recovery from rape can range from various degrees of emotional and psychological trauma, bruises, cuts or, in some cases surgery.

So, no, you cannot put yourself into every forseeable or unforseeable scenario of rape and imagine how it will impact you physically, much less psychologically. Imagining a rape that involves the least amount of violence and injury and predicting your reaction is unrealistic enough, but to believe you have the ability to prognosticate those choices and decisions in the worst case scenario is pompous and insensitive.[/b]

-Um, I know.
-Who said that all ppl who are trying to predict their reactions are imagining the scenario you think they are? You are assuming that people think rape is a certain cookie-cutter, black and white crime, I think most people know better than that.
-Sorry, but I stand by my previous post. I am sorry if you feel that other people trying to imagine themselves in a certain situation and hypothesize as to what they may or may not end up doing is pompous and insensitive, but I don't think it is. If you bear in mind that people are only trying to get a feel for how THEY PERSONALLY might react in a hypothetical situation then there is no need to take it personally. Whether they are right or wrong in their predictions in the end has no effect on anyone else, and I haven't seen anyone in this debate pass judgment on anybody who would choose differently. I think everyone realizes it is a highly sensitive subject, but to me the debate was about ABORTION...and how strongly one's views may or may not influence their decisions, even in the worst imaginable circumstances.
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  #10  
December 10th, 2007, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I don't know if it is fair to say that anyone who says that they feel sure that they would not get an abortion is being insensitive, mounting their high horse, and/or denigrating the victims of rape.
It is a very personal question and as I'm sure there are many people who *know* they would not get an abortion and end up getting one after such an experience there must also be many who *know* they would not get one and indeed do not. I am as sure as I could be at this point in my life, given my own personal beliefs about abortion, that I would not get one if I were raped. I understand if someone else thinks that perhaps that is unrealistic, but to say it is insensitive, judgemental, arrogant or whatever else is implied by the term "mounting your high horse" is a bit of a stretch to me. I'm only stating my own personal beliefs as asked by the OP, trying to predict my OWN behaviour in a hypothetical situation, not extending a blanket of judgement over anyone who chooses differently in a situation like that.[/b]
And, you might have noticed that my response elaborated beyond one sentence, but I will reiderate.

You CANNOT accurately predict an outcome if you cannot accurately hypothesize, any and all of, the potential details of the rape. If the OP was written with a, graphically detailed, account of a hypothetical rape scenario and included specific descriptions of the physical injuries that were sustained, the credibility of the responses might be worthy of minimum consideration, but in this instance I stand by what I previously stated.

Rape is NOT black and white. It is NOT always limited to forcible penetration of a penis into a vagina. Rape victimizes all kinds of people in all kinds of ways. It can involve children, mentally disabled or senior citizens. Some victims are attacked by strangers, friends, spouses or a group of attackers. Rape can involve oral sex, vaginal sex and/or sodomy (using genitals or inanimate objects). Recovery from rape can range from various degrees of emotional and psychological trauma, bruises, cuts or, in some cases surgery.

So, no, you cannot put yourself into every forseeable or unforseeable scenario of rape and imagine how it will impact you physically, much less psychologically. Imagining a rape that involves the least amount of violence and injury and predicting your reaction is unrealistic enough, but to believe you have the ability to prognosticate those choices and decisions in the worst case scenario is pompous and insensitive.[/b]

-Um, I know.
-Who said that all ppl who are trying to predict their reactions are imagining the scenario you think they are? [/b]
WTH are you talking about? My point is you cannot imagine YOUR RAPE!! There is no ONE scenario! There is no BASIC rape!! You cannot predict your reaction when you cannot predict the details of every rape!!
Quote:
You are assuming that people think rape is a certain cookie-cutter, black and white crime, I think most people know better than that.[/b]
Obviously not, based on some responses.
Quote:
-Sorry, but I stand by my previous post. I am sorry if you feel that other people trying to imagine themselves in a certain situation and hypothesize as to what they may or may not end up doing is pompous and insensitive, but I don't think it is.[/b]
Of course you don't. Just because I may not be offended or insulted by comments about wheelchairs, the feelings and perceptions of a peson in a wheelchair would be of more significant consequence than my own. I would never tell a blind person how to feel.
Quote:
If you bear in mind that people are only trying to get a feel for how THEY PERSONALLY might react in a hypothetical situation[/b]
People are trying to get a feel for how they personally might react to THEIR HYPOTHETICAL RAPE! You cannot know how you would feel, period.
Quote:
then there is no need to take it personally.[/b]
Oh please! I am not taking this personally, hun. I am responding to the debate in a completely logical and rational manner, thankyouverymuch.
Quote:
Whether they are right or wrong in their predictions in the end has no effect on anyone else, and I haven't seen anyone in this debate pass judgment on anybody who would choose differently.[/b]
You are aware this is a debate, right? You are debating that you have imagined, in all the graphic detail, every unwanted touch, every tear and all of the pain, humiliation and guilt and can accurately predict, because you have just imagined your own rape, that you would be just fine and would have no issue carrying a pregnancy that resulted. I, on the other hand, am saying it is not possible.
Quote:
I think everyone realizes it is a highly sensitive subject, but to me the debate was about ABORTION...and how strongly one's views may or may not influence their decisions, even in the worst imaginable circumstances.[/b]
This debate is about ABORTION after RAPE.
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  #11  
December 10th, 2007, 09:00 AM
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I have no idea what I would do in that situation.

I would not want someone else deciding that FOR me, one way or the other.
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  #12  
December 10th, 2007, 10:00 AM
chloe82
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You cannot predict your reaction when you cannot predict the details of every rape!!

Well obviously everyone does not agree. I think there are many people that do not need to know every detail to know, or at least THINK they know, how they would act.

Obviously not, based on some responses.

Which responses? I didn't see any in this debate that insinuated anything like that.

People are trying to get a feel for how they personally might react to THEIR HYPOTHETICAL RAPE! You cannot know how you would feel, period.

Perhaps not, but that is assuming that everyone needs to know exactly how they would feel to know exactly how they would act. Is it possible to know how you would probably act without having to have experienced something yourself? You think flat-out no, apparently, I disagree. I think that some people perhaps can, to an extent.

thankyouverymuch

Phrases like "thankyouverymuch" and "mmkay" are just plain old condescending. Could you not address people you disagree with like they're in kindergarten?

You are debating that you have imagined, in all the graphic detail, every unwanted touch, every tear and all of the pain, humiliation and guilt and can accurately predict, because you have just imagined your own rape, that you would be just fine and would have no issue carrying a pregnancy that resulted.

That's wierd; I don't remember saying that AT ALL!!!!

This debate is about ABORTION after RAPE.

That's right....and it is, I think, valuable and interesting for strong pro-lifers to try and imagine some of the worst-case scenarios that can lead up to an abortion, and try and figure if they would still be able to hang on to their strong views in the face of such traumatic circumstances. I actually think it's a GOOD question to ask oneself. If anything, asking myself questions like that has only increased my empathy towards people who make different choices than I think I might make....because there ARE situations, like this one, where I CAN imagine myself, a strong pro-lifer, coming to the point where I might at least consider abortion. I cannot, at this point in my life, knowing who I am and what I believe, imagine actually going through with it. That does NOT mean I judge others who choose differently. How else to we develop empathy if not by trying to put ourselves in other people's shoes and imagine what something must have been like to a degree? Of course you can't be entirely ACCURATE about it....but does that make thinking about it harmful?
Do you find every hypothetical "WWYD" question to be pompous, insensitive, etc.? Do you never hear of a story or situation and wonder what you yourself might have done had it been you? If you think you might have handled it differently, does that mean you're getting up on your high horse? People do this all the time, they try to guesstimate how they might feel, react, act in certain situations, but unless they are looking down on people who act differently then I dont see how it's any of the things you said it is.
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  #13  
December 10th, 2007, 12:55 PM
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As much as I'm against abortion, I had to answer "not usure" on this one. This is osmething that cannot be answered 100% without being in that situation. There are so many factors to take into account, I'm not sure what I'd do. In principle, I think I wouldn't abort because to me, that's not a good enough reason and there are alternatives. But to make a proper response I'll have to consider too many factors.

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  #14  
December 10th, 2007, 01:16 PM
mommyKathyX3
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For me PERSONALLY I would feel like aborting my child because I was raped would be like saying I could get rid of one of my children I have now. It wouldnt matter for me PERSONALLY, its my child, (and no for me PERSONALLY not a "possible child" it IS my child. I KNOW it would be hard, but it is just as much my child as an other child.

If someone else got an abortion in those situation, I would be saddend (like any other abortion) about the WHOLE situation but would not have hard feelings toward the mother in that situation. I think rape is an acceptable situation for abortion as long as its an early abortion (1st Trimester).

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  #15  
December 10th, 2007, 01:18 PM
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Yes, I would. I don't know that I could raise a kid that wasn't the product of a loving relationship. I would be willing to carry the baby and give it up for adoption, provided that the adoption agency or adoptive parents paid for all the hospital bills and gave me full pay while I was recovering from the delivery. Otherwise, I would have an abortion.
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  #16  
December 10th, 2007, 03:44 PM
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I would not. No matter how harsh the crime and how emotional/physically scarred I got from being raped I would not abort my baby. I agree with Chloe on this one.

And it most definitely is not pompous to believe wholeheartedly in the sanctity of life and let that belief manifest itself in all areas, including judging how we would personally act if in a situation as stated in the OP.
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  #17  
December 11th, 2007, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
I would not. No matter how harsh the crime and how emotional/physically scarred I got from being raped I would not abort my baby. I agree with Chloe on this one.

And it most definitely is not pompous to believe wholeheartedly in the sanctity of life and let that belief manifest itself in all areas, including judging how we would personally act if in a situation as stated in the OP.[/b]


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  #18  
December 11th, 2007, 09:16 AM
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I voted "not sure" for the reasons Stacey stated. I can't know how I'd feel in the situation.
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  #19  
December 11th, 2007, 11:46 AM
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Since many people seem to be missing my point, regarding the varying degrees of rape as well as the full scope of the potential physical injuries and/or psychological/emotional trauma, I would like to elaborate:
Quote:
Traumatic fistula is ‘an abnormal opening between the reproductive tract of a woman or girl and one or more body cavities or surfaces, caused by sexual violence, usually but not always in conflict and post-conflict settings.’1 It is a result of direct gynaecologic trauma, usually from violent rape, mass rape, including forced insertion of objects such as gun barrels, beer bottles and sticks into a woman’s vagina. The brutal rape can result in genital injury and can lead to the formation of a rupture, or fistula, between a woman’s vagina, her bladder, rectum, or both.

Women with fistula are unable to control the constant flow of urine and/or faeces that leak from the tear. Affected women are often divorced by their husbands, shunned by their communities, and unable to work or care for their families.2

Traumatic fistula, therefore, compounds the psychological trauma, fear and stigma that accompanies rape—with the same risk of unwanted pregnancy, vulnerability to sexually transmitted infections (STIs), including HIV, and diminished opportunities to marry, to work or be participate in the larger community.

Expert surgeons trained in fistula repair can mend the damage. Post-operative care should include trauma counseling, rehabilitation and even physical therapy. As with obstetric fistula, however, some women are unable to heal even after several surgeries, and are left permanently damaged.[/b]
Source
Quote:
Two of the eight youths accused of beating and raping a woman who was jogging in Central Park last week were indicted by a Manhattan grand jury yesterday.

Assistant district attorney Elizabeth Lederer said in Manhattan Criminal Court that Yusef Salaam, the 15-year-old boy who told the police that he had struck the victim with a pipe and took part in her rape, was indicted on a complaint charging him with rape, attempted murder and assault.[/b]
Quote:
At Metropolitan Hospital last night, the victim was put back on the respirator she had been taken off Tuesday.

Stephen Ramaswamy, the hospital's night administrator, said she had developed pneumonia, as bed-ridden patients who cannot clear their lungs of fluid sometimes do. He said she is now getting enough oxygen into her blood, but remains in critical condition in a coma.[/b]
NY Times story
Quote:
The plight of a young Lancashire woman who faces permanent disability after being ruthlessly beaten and raped in Cyprus has shattered the sleepy calm of the island and stirred fierce debate over police handling of sex crimes.[/b]
Quote:
The British tourist was found, partly clothed, bruised and battered in a field. She had been sexually assaulted and beaten with a sharp wooden implement, and had lain there for hours before local residents were alerted by her groans the next day. 'It was very vicious. It is the first time I have encountered anything as severe as this in the all the years I have had this job,' said a state pathologist, Eleni Antoniou. Doctors, who have since conducted extensive surgery, say it was only a matter of luck that she did not die from internal wounds. 'This woman has suffered severe psychological trauma and irreparable physical damage,' said the regional deputy police chief, Costas Melanides.[/b]
Story
Quote:
Bonds are $1 million for two illegal immigrants arrested and charged Thursday in connection with a brutal attack on a recent Mexia High School graduate who was run off a rural road, raped, beaten, stabbed and left to die in a ditch.[/b]
Full story

Quote:
Royi and her 78 year old aunt were attacked and gang raped over two weeks ago outside Royi’s Extension 6 home. Covered in paraffin and set alight, Ngwendu was found by the police unconscious and critically injured. She later died from her injuries in Livingstone Hospital in Port Elizabeth. Royi had been strangled by her attackers, and died by the time the police had reached the scene.[/b]
Story
Quote:
The effects of rape are both physical and psychological.

Physical effects on the victim may include:

injuries from beating or choking, such as bruises, scratches, cuts, and broken bones
swelling around the genital area
bruising around the vagina
injury to the rectal-vaginal area (for example, tearing of the tissue that connects the anus to the vagina)
sexually transmitted diseases (such as, herpes, gonorrhea, AIDS, and syphilis)
possible pregnancy (in a regularly menstruating female).
Psychological effects on the victim may include:

severe anxiety
depression
difficulty concentrating or sleeping
dreaming about what happened
inappropriate guilt feelings
emotional numbness or irritability
flashbacks
nightmares
extreme fear.[/b]
source

What if any of the women in the above stories had become pregnant? Could anyone honestly say that they could forecast their reactions to any of the above scenarios? I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that no one, but those women with the experience, has the capacity to comprehend the attack and the emotional aftermath. Again, I fully deny that anyone has the ability to predict their reaction to rape because you cannot forsee the details of the attack and, therefore, cannot make an accurate prediction of what measures and methods would be necessary for your physical and psychological recovery.

I can promise that no amount of personal reflection or consideration to a hypothetical rape would prepare you for the full impact of it's reality. I can tell you that the experience is unimaginable, I would not wish the knowledge of the experience on my worst enemy. In those moments you learn the meaning of total and complete helplessness, desperation, fear, guilt and self loathing. You cannot understand what it is like to, suddenly, not have any control or choice, until those rights to consent are stolen away from you. Your body is not yours and, a lesson many victims will continue to believe after their rape, it is not worthy of any respect. It is the most demeaning form of dehumanization to be forcibly subjugated to such a violation, it is indescribeable.

If you were able to observe a session of a rape survivors group you would be privvy to numerous individuals reveal their stories and the innermost thoughts and feelings that they, personally, associate with their experience. Every story is different and every perspective is different, as well as every reaction.

I respect that everyone has differing, usually passionate, opinions on the issue of abortion, on both sides of the debate. I, for instance, was once vehemently pro-life but I, gradually, gained a different perspective due to various influences. That is not to say that the foundation of the pro-life opinion is weak or unstable, pro-choice POVs have also been shifted to pro-life, just that experience, among other things, has the power to influence our opinions and choices. Every single pro choice person that was once pro-life, and vice versa, never believed that anything could shake them from that position. Up until a few years ago, there was nothing and no one that could or would cause me to dissent from my opinion, until I dissented from my opinion.

I find it to be dismissive of the physical, personal and emotional obstacles that most victims encounter during, both short term and long term, recovery, for anyone to claim to have universal cognizance of the full impact of rape, including and especially the psychological effects. Rape is never the same attack that produces the same results. To clarify, I am not trying to insinuate that anyone is being intentionally insensitive on the issue but the attitude that you "get it" portrays just that, regardless. I acknowledge and admit to my inability to grasp the nature and depth of the emotions resulting from another's personal experience with rape. It is different for every single person. As I have stated, multiple times, there are just too many facets and possibilities, the resulting injuries, phsycial and emotional, are unforseeable, so one's reaction is unimaginable.
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  #20  
December 11th, 2007, 12:49 PM
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I honestly don't know what I would do. It would depend a lot on how I felt afterwards.
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