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  #1  
December 21st, 2008, 05:25 AM
STL_Beth's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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most people I know who have a baby (or two).

This is going to sound so selfish, conceited, and mean, but I have to tell you girls. First of all, I volunteer at a crisis nursery. Parents who are in "crisis" can drop their children off to stay for a few days for no charge or anything. I do understand that things happen and I'm glad there is this outlet for the parents so that the children don't get involved in the bad situation. However, it seems like there are always the same families there, like they are taking advantage. It just makes me mad that there are so many people out there who shouldn't be allowed to have children. I don't want to get into a procreation debate - but it bothers me that there is so much testing and checking on a couple that is going to adopt but anyone and their mom can having a baby naturally. I'm not saying this necessarily because I'm jealous I can't just snap my fingers and be pregnant, but that usually the parents are not ready and it ends up being taken out on the child in divorce, etc.

In a slightly different twist, I've seen lots of parents (esp. lately) that are doing an OK job, and I wouldn't ordinarily criticize them, but to compare them to us (me and DH) we have a larger house, make more income, have a cleaner house, better neighborhood. I'm not trying to brag and I definitely don't think we are rich or anything. But after graduation college, we both had the thought that we wanted to raise a family so we tried to find jobs that gave us the most money for that, and a house big enough for them, etc. I just think we made smart decisions that led us to here and I do feel like we can honestly raise a good family here now. Where there are so many other couples who are raising children elsewhere that isn't as nice and I just always think I can do better than them. Maybe this is just the encouragement I need to raise my children with 100% effort and never give up on them.

That's enough of my rant.
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  #2  
December 21st, 2008, 06:22 AM
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It is hard not to get in this debate. I ask myself some of the same questions all of the time. Like when a 13 month old was recently murdered here by her parents via a brutal beating, I think why can they reproduce so easily and we are struggling? I honestly think that it is a losing debate because every time I think about it I just feel worse than I did before, so I am trying to make a conscious effort to NOT get into the whys of all of this. It is hard, and some days are better than others, but mentally it's what I have to do.
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  #3  
December 21st, 2008, 06:32 AM
adam*s_mami's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I know how you feel, it makes me sooo angry, but I guess there is a reason for everything, I get so mad when I see people complaining that they are PG and it was not on purpose .......but i am trying not to be one of those bitter women...lol
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  #4  
December 21st, 2008, 06:59 AM
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ugh, I know. I'm not going to say I haven't had the same thoughts (like, a lot). Like Ash says, it doesn't make me feel any better to think about it though. The oops babies, and like a friend of mine, who HAD to have a baby at 22 because she didn't want to be an "old" mother (and telling me this when I'm 29 and have no kids), and her DH couldn't hold on to a job and they can barely pay their bills....and yup, she just had a baby in August....me, nothing yet!
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  #5  
December 21st, 2008, 07:15 AM
LittleLady19's Avatar Laci
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I agree with the girls!! Its hard not to think of the why's but they just hold you back. I've watched one of my sils have two babies, one is pg with her first, and the third has had ectopic pregnancy. After a while you just learn to accept that people who dont deserve them get them over us. We all understand how you feel so you dont sound like bitter woman! Hang in there hun
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  #6  
December 21st, 2008, 08:25 AM
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I've always found it odd that you need a license to get a dog, but anyone can have kids.
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  #7  
December 21st, 2008, 09:37 AM
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Does the parent have to specify their "crisis"? And is there any verification? I'm just asking because if you tend to see the same people there is most likely an abuse there....i.e. free babysitter. I worked for a police department for 9 years and I can't tell you how many times we've checked the welfare of children who have been left alone only to find out that the parents went out to a club and didn't have anyone to leave the kids with....and it tends to be a repeated pattern.

We also get the I don't know how to discipline my child, so I need a police officer. And I tear into those people. Police do not discipline kids......and then the parents have the nerve to ask if we can take the kid to juvenile for the weekend because they need a break. Oh hell no!

I grew up disciplining my 2 younger brothers and believe me, it is not hard to discipline children.

Is the "crisis" center run by the city? State or privately funded? Just curious.
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  #8  
December 21st, 2008, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
I've always found it odd that you need a license to get a dog, but anyone can have kids.[/b]
that's a good one!

But seriously, this really is a problem in this country, and honestly, i don't feel bad for agreeing with you all. ASPCA had special cops, trained to follow up on reports of suspected animal abuse, and they help pet owners when possible (i.e. paying for mange treatment if the family can't afford it) and remove those animals and find safe homes when helping the owner is not the issue, if they are the ones causing the problem. Those officers are trained in how to deal with ill, scared, innocent animals, because those animals are voiceless, and the shelter staff can care for those animals and find them wonderful new loving families. Our child welfare system is terribly underfunded and poorly staffed, and for that reason, hundreds of thousands of children suffer silently in abusive or neglectful homes every day, while deserving families have to wait years for a single adoption. Not to equate animals with children, but it sure would be nice to have a better system in place, and to be willing to act and rescue a child in need when it's necessary, and to have stricter penalties for people who appear incapable of being responsible parents.

Also, even though my career is very important to me, and i do care about the global population problem, issues like this are one of the reasons my husband and i have decided to have 3 or more kids. Want to continue bringing good, honest, kind people into the world, as a counterweight to those who seem so self-involved and uncaring.

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  #9  
December 21st, 2008, 12:02 PM
Jaz.MomTo1's Avatar hoping & praying
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I agree completely! And The ALMIGHTY knows I have my moments feeling just like that! I never question the Lords work.. but, I just wonder why is it easy for some women who dont want kids to have a child so easy.. but, a woman that would give her life for her child so hard for her to have a baby???? It's so frustrating! I'm getting upset thinking about it! -- But, I truly understand how you feel Beth.. I'm sure we've all been there!

I keep my faith close and know GOD is going to bless me with a miracle!

Loads of dust to you wonderul ladies too!
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  #10  
December 21st, 2008, 07:07 PM
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Lee Ann,

I don't deal with the intake/discharge that much - that's the social worker's job, I just play with the cute babies...hehe. Anyway, I think it's funded by organizations like United Way, but also maybe partially state funded. I know they work through a hospital where laundry and meals come from. This place also gives out diapers or clothing to parents that need it. I have seen them turn down parents because of their situation but I don't know if they've dealt with them before or what the situation is. I'm glad there is a place like this. They said before this place, the kids were just put in the foster care. I guess with all need based programs, there is always going to be abuse.
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  #11  
December 22nd, 2008, 07:12 AM
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Well Bless you for doing that! It sure does show that you have a big heart especially for kids.
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  #12  
December 22nd, 2008, 07:40 AM
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I totally agree with you, and understand how you feel. Probably 60% of my girlfriends had oopsie babies at 17-19 years old and now the children are suffering. All but 1 or 2 of the moms would rather have never had their babies, they go out every night and leave their babies with the grandparents (whom most of them still live with). And the buy clothes, shoes, fast food etc for themselves before baby. It sucks bad. Because as you said Beth... Jason and I are only 22 and 23 and we built a brand new home this year, have great stable jobs, and make a very good living. And most of our friends still live with their parents, and work at like fast food places or whatnot. And then it sucks when their like "Oh, so and so is pregnant." And it just seems so easy for them, and they dont even want it like i do it just happens. And their the people who smoke while their pregnant, dont take pre-natals, dont go to the doc regularly, drink soda everyday...etc and have healthy babies. And here I am at 22 and on my first month of trying I had a m/c. And i not only have never smoked in my life, and drink probably once a year, i was taking prenatals for the past 6+ months and eating healthy and gave up caffeine completely a few months back for the health of my future pregnancy. It just sucks.

ETA: Sorry I ended up making this a big ole rant!
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  #13  
December 22nd, 2008, 08:02 AM
STL_Beth's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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It's ok, Ashley. But I know EXACTLY what you mean. My cousin is the same age as me and she has 4 children (one is from a new bf from a previous relationship he had but still she's already had 3 children?) and she never went to college and she pretty much lives off the government. What kind of life is that for the children? What kind of values is she teaching her children. BTW, the father of all 3 of these children is in jail.
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  #14  
December 22nd, 2008, 09:21 AM
ZaydensMomma's Avatar Aaron Nicole
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I try not to pass judgement what the parents were thinking or doing. I look at BOTH sides than pass judgement based on one story. I think it's great there's places like that. We don't know what goes on in their lives and why they do it. The economy is pretty bad right now and many people are being laid off. I just watched a clip on the news last night that a shelter in Indy are overflowing with mothers with children. One mother was being interviewed and asked why she doesn't have a place.. she said "laid off from work and lost her house cuz she cuoldn't afford to pay the mortgage." Also the new said there's a mother with 9 children living at the shelter. So sad. But the shelter provide food, beds and education opportunities to help them get back on the feet.
I know a deaf man who is homeless and goes to that shelter.... we asked him why.. he said his family disowned him.

I see many homeless people in Washington DC Union Station. Most of them are really nice to us cuz they see us every day when we walk by them. My DH gives food to them and when he was a president at the deaf club in Indy, he would get all the leftover food and drive to downtown Indy and donate the food to the homeless.

Beth, I understand your point of view, but try not to get that to you. Continue what you are doing... giving a big piece of your heart to the children. They will forever be grateful to you whether you realize it or not.

animal shelters.. do not get me started... I get so sad thinking about animals needing home. with stl girl!
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  #15  
December 22nd, 2008, 09:29 AM
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Aaron just reminded me that I should also mention that I do realize there are people out there that truly got in a sticky situation and they really just need some help and then they can be back on their feet. That's why there are shelters, crisis nurseries, etc out there. When I was in college, I worked my grad assistantship at a clinic set up to fix tax problems for people who couldn't afford to pay a CPA. I worked under a licensed CPA but I still did most of the work. I met with several clients who truly got in a bad situation (i can imagine it's gotten worse with the economy) but we also met with clients who did stupid things and didn't deserve a break. For example, we always have to fill out these inventories (assets/liabilities, expenses, etc) to send to the IRS to show them that they can't pay. So I was doing that for this couple and when I got down to their expenses, most of their money goes towards paying their expensive cars, excessive cable bills, internet, etc...basically stuff that they could have been doing without. I was like "i'm sorry, but the IRS doesn't allow these types of expenses" so after it was all done, they had tons of $$ to pay the IRS, so we couldn't file anything to help them get out of their IRS debt.
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  #16  
December 22nd, 2008, 12:22 PM
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ABSOLUTELY there are good people out there who deserve help! I don't think this thread is about poverty as much as it is about responsibility. It is everyone's right to have a family - you shouldn't be punished or looked down on if you're struggling financially and choose to have a baby. Heck, we're not rich either, it's just the right time for us. But those people who smoke and drink while pregnant, who go out and party and leave their kids alone or with grandparents, who spend money on jewelry when their kids don't have books, who regularly have sex without birth control when not TTC, THOSE people are the ones who infuriate me!

Seems like the most loving thing you could do if you find yourself with a child you're not emotionally prepared to deal with is to give it up for adoption. Go ahead and live your life how you want to, but at least give your baby a shot at something better.
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  #17  
December 23rd, 2008, 02:35 AM
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OK Ive been debating wether you girls would mind me posting on this thread since I saw it posted and thought what the heck!!
Beth in many ways Yes I do agree with you, so many people make the effort to get/keep themselves in a stable job, go throgh school, set up a home etc before they decide to have children and yes, many definatly take it for granted. Having lived/grew up in Australia and having lived here in the UK for a few years I can see the difference in lifestyles etc. There is far more opportunities in Australia and things are alot cheaper (not to say things arent getting more expensive) When I moved over here its amazing how expensive the cost of living is compared to what I was used to. Its so difficult to get on the property ladder here and me and DF will evetually move to Australia. What Im trying to say is that people dont always ask to be in the situation they are in, some people never get the opportunities that others get. One of my cousins fell pregnant at 15, then at 18, now at 28 she has 5 children, BUT they are all by the same man, she is the most amazing mum and her children come first all the time. They have been bought up very well. Another one of my cousins didnt think she could get pregnant, did get pregnant, evetually split with the guy because he didnt want to marry her just yet, she smokes, goes out ALL the time, was engaged again within a few months (4th engagement) Her son was always left with her mum when she went out, shes now pregnant again (to a different bf) who lookes about 15 I might add. It wasnt planned, the thing that winds me up the most, shes been given job opportunities by her uncle who runs a care home where she used to work anyway, he offered to pay for all her drving lessons AND buy her a car. She didnt take any of it. Such a waste. Wow that turned ito a bit of a vent, lol. So yeah I def see were your comng from in some ways but unless we know the situation its hard to say
Also LOL LeeAnn parents asking fr help disciplining ther children, its hard to know if thats pure laziness or desperation because they dont know where else to turn!
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  #18  
December 23rd, 2008, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
OK Ive been debating wether you girls would mind me posting on this thread since I saw it posted and thought what the heck!![/b]
Of course we don't mind you posting to our threads, YOU ARE ONE OF US!! Pregnant or not. I do not want any of the grads thinking just because you are pregnant you aren't welcome!! Sorry....soap box!!

Sorry to hi-jack the thread!
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  #19  
December 23rd, 2008, 05:25 AM
STL_Beth's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Em, I appreciate what you're saying and I totally understand. I realize there are people out there that have just had a "rough" patch, but to say most people have NEVER had an opportunity, I just don't believe that. A good example is my MIL. Aside from her psychological problems, she complains a lot about how she just got dealt bad cards in life and things never went the right way for her, but none of this was her fault nor could she fix that and that's just crap, at least in her situation. The bad situations she was in was because of her bad decisions and no one elses. She trusts people too much, gives them $$ without a signed contract and then loses the $$, etc. I strongly believe that she is where she is because she made the wrong decisions in life. That's not to say we don't care about her and that's why she is being taken care of the best way we know how, but I certainly don't feel sorry for her.

Now going back to what you said about your cousin getting pregnant at 15. You used the word "falling" pregnant and I really don't like the use of that word in this context. It makes it sound like you were just walking down the street and in a "virgin mary" way, you became pregnant out of nowhere or like it's a disease you are now "suffering" from. People make that choice when they have sex (esp if they are only 15!) and if they get pregnant from it, then that's the decision they made for their life, even if it wasn't an intended thing. When you go to a casino and gamble your $$ and then you walk away with nothing, you can't be totally upset because you made a decision to gamble your money and a risk you took ended up not working out, but that was still a decision you made.

Wow, so sorry for the somewhat O/T rant. This hopefully doesn't offend anyone, just my thoughts...
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  #20  
December 23rd, 2008, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Also LOL LeeAnn parents asking fr help disciplining ther children, its hard to know if thats pure laziness or desperation because they dont know where else to turn![/b]
There is a pretty large age gap from me and my two younger brothers.....and they were always seen as the "babies" and were never punished like us first three kids were. My parents never asked for me to punish them, but I'm very strict in nature and I get it from my dad....i.e. if I am going to bed because I have to get up at 5am to get to work and I tell them to be quiet, I always gave three chances....after the 4th time I had to get out of bed....I would whip that *****!

I was always a mean kid, fair, but mean. And I've never put up with people talking back to me. I remember once when I was probably 12, my younger brother called me a name and I pulled a long leaf (almost like a banana leaf) off a neighbors plant and whipped my brother with it.

I guess I was always like that and my parents just expected it from me.....and I'm sure I never let them down!

My brothers fear my dad and don't listen to my mom. And I don't put up with them not listening. I guess that is why I always excelled well in police work....I'm very disciplined and I've had tons of people tell me that I probably would have had a great career in the military, which I always wanted to go into, but my mom was soo scared I'd be killed, so I never did. I do please every now and then.
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