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TTC With PCOS (A Question about Cycles)


Forum: Trying to Conceive With PCOS

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  #1  
September 18th, 2012, 11:20 PM
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Hi, I'm April. I'm 23, and my partner in crime is 25. I have 1 daughter, Age 3, Gabriella, who is from a previous relationship. I've had 5 miscarraiges and 1 stillborn. I have PCOS, IR and Hypothyroidism, and FVL. We have been TTC since April when I had my IUD Removed, and serious about it in June 2012.

A Bit of a Back Story:

I live with a condition called PCOS, which affects most hormones in my body. Despite many attempts at wishing to be normal, I unfortunately don't have the best genes or genetic traits.

I was diagnosed at the age of 11 with PCOS in the year 2000. I was devastated because the doctor told me I was not going to ever be able to have children. I loved kids and wanted kids for the longest time.

I had my first period at the age of 8. Very heavy and very early. By age 10 they had gone away all together. I was overweight, and none of the attempts to loose weight were helping.

At the age of 11, was hospitalized, and they ran some blood work and saw my LH< FSH, Testosterone, and other hormones were out of wack. They sent me to a specialist who confirmed the diagnosis.

At age 12, I was started on birth control not to prevent pregnancy but to attempt to regulate my cycles. It was called Lo-Orval, and it was great, except I ended up having the worse cramps, they were debilitating. That was when they diagnosed me with Endometriosis. I still had irregular periods, they would come and go, and they would be very irregular.

I Lost my virginity at 17 (Senior Prom Night, June 2007), and brought my first daughter into the world at 23 weeks gestation. It was determined her estimated conception date was between Dec 7-Dec 14th 2007, and We lost her due to her having HLHS. A rare heart defect. She was born blue. She became an angel baby on May 2ed 2008.

After her birth in May 2008, I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism, and diabetes type II. I was put on metformin and levothyroxine (synthroid) and then taken off due to lack of insurance.

In September 2008, I was re-started on Metformin, and that was the reason I got pregnant with my daughter Gabriella. I did not find out I was pregnant with her until Nov 08, at a very rough point in my life, and when I was around 8-12 weeks pregnant. At first, we didn't believe it. You can see our journey on a separate blog.

I strongly believe that it was what helped me get pregnant, because I was still on birth control pills, and her father was 50% infertile due to an undecended testicle, and somehow I got pregnant.

I was a high risk pregnancy. I had the protein in my urine, gestational diabetes and hypothyroidism. They induced me at 35 weeks 6 days. My daughter was brought into this amazing world and my entire life changed because of her.

After my daughter in September 2009, I got an IUD inserted. I chose the Mirena so that I could not have any unplanned pregnancies.

Between 2006 and 2011, I had 5 miscarriages. 1 in 2007, 2 in 2008(1 required a D+C which was July 08, and the other occurred in September 08) After my second miscarriage in September 08, I ended up miraculously conceiving my daughter on or around 10-20-2008 (According to Due Date Calculator Reverse Lookup)

Unfortunately, after my daughter was born on June 25th 2009, I suffered yet another miscarriage on August 5th 2009. We weren't really trying at that point, and didn't take the whole your most fertile after giving birth thing seriously and as you can tell, we weren't really following the whole "wait a certain period of time" plan of the game.

In September 2009, I got my IUD Inserted. In between that time, I left an abusive relationship, moved around quite a bit, and got my life straightened out, to where I met my current partner in crime, Alex in June 2011.

I had no problems with my IUD until July/August 2011, when I started feeling funny. I was nauseated. Having dizzy spells. Moody. But because of my IUD I didn't think anything of it. A few of my friends jokingly told me to take a pregnancy test, and I did, and I found out I was pregnant. My boyfriend Alex and I had only been dating for 3mos at this point, and his initial reaction was oh my god. that's going to ruin my life. get an abortion. its me or the baby which he later realized was immature and selfish and felt bad about but sadly, I had the choice to keep the pregnancy, and bleed internally, because my IUD Dislodged, or sign consent forms to have my IUD Removed, and risk miscarriage. We weighed the pros and cons together, and decided that my daughter Gabriella needed her mother, and signed the consent forms, and than when I miscarried, cried together for a bit. We were devastated.

In November 2009, I got my IUD Re-inserted. We were not planning to try for a baby again for quite some time. However, after the new years, I started wanting a baby again. Casually bringing the idea up in February, we decided that June was our target date, and than we pushed it back to April. The date was set. April 13th 2012, I would have my IUD Removed.


Back to My Question:

In June 2012, I was put on Metformin 2000mg a day and have been charting my BBT Temps, and monitoring via OPTKs and temping. I also have PCOS, Insulin Resistance and Hypothyrodism.

I come to the forums today wondering if you all have been on Metformin and have had your body skip a cycle but still have BFN? Today is currently CD49, No BFP, All BFN's, via Betas and Hcg's on HPT's. I am just wondering how common it is, to miss your visit from aunt flow, after being regular for a few months. A few people mentioned possibility of chemical pregnancies... My PCP took one beta, and than had me go back and do another (which made no sense to me) but I was just curious...
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  #2  
September 19th, 2012, 08:45 PM
aubers68's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Even on metformin I had whacky cycles. :-(
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  #3  
September 20th, 2012, 10:29 AM
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Here is another question:

- Very first time at 11DPO I had faint pregnancy lines on tests. So... I got the beta done... and the doctor said it was negative. Than she called me back and told me she wants me to re-do the beta. I asked her why and she said this: I checked with jessica (thats my pcps name) as to why she wants you to recheck it and she said even though its negative, it was at a number grater than one which they consider a false positive. She needs me to recheck it to be sure its at 0"

WTH? How can a pregnancy test signal a false positive in blood. Your either pregnant or not, right? I guess I'm not grasping this. lol. Your not supposed to have HCG in your blood if your not pregnant right?
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  #4  
September 20th, 2012, 09:39 PM
Frozenoj's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I've never had regular cycles, so I don't have experience with having them and then a wonky one. I would think it would be possible though. You mentioned a beta after 11DPO - are you charting? Or just using calendar method to figure out O? I'm wondering because your LP isn't supposed to change more than a day or so in either direction unless you are doing something to make it change (like taking progesterone, B6, Clomid, etc). I've seen it get longer after stopping BC but that was in people who had short LPs (like 3-5 days) directly after stopping so it was just going back to what it should have been. If you know for certain when O was and your LP is quite a bit longer than normal I'd think there's a very good chance you are pregnant. Now if you aren't charting BBT or had a mid-cycle u/s to confirm O you could have just O'd later than normal or not at all. Even women with "normal" reproductive systems have off cycles occasionally where they O late. I imagine the occurrence of these off cycles would just be increased when you're dealing with something like PCOS.

As far as the beta goes... I imagine what they mean is the test has a margin of error and they think yours erred on the side of additional HCG rather than less HCG. It's hard for any test to be 100% accurate, and pretty much no test is 100% accurate 100% of the time. I think this is why you need a number greater than 5 for them to count is as positive, as that would be beyond the margin of error. Hope this helps!
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  #5  
September 21st, 2012, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenoj View Post
I've never had regular cycles, so I don't have experience with having them and then a wonky one. I would think it would be possible though. You mentioned a beta after 11DPO - are you charting? Or just using calendar method to figure out O? I'm wondering because your LP isn't supposed to change more than a day or so in either direction unless you are doing something to make it change (like taking progesterone, B6, Clomid, etc). I've seen it get longer after stopping BC but that was in people who had short LPs (like 3-5 days) directly after stopping so it was just going back to what it should have been. If you know for certain when O was and your LP is quite a bit longer than normal I'd think there's a very good chance you are pregnant. Now if you aren't charting BBT or had a mid-cycle u/s to confirm O you could have just O'd later than normal or not at all. Even women with "normal" reproductive systems have off cycles occasionally where they O late. I imagine the occurrence of these off cycles would just be increased when you're dealing with something like PCOS.

As far as the beta goes... I imagine what they mean is the test has a margin of error and they think yours erred on the side of additional HCG rather than less HCG. It's hard for any test to be 100% accurate, and pretty much no test is 100% accurate 100% of the time. I think this is why you need a number greater than 5 for them to count is as positive, as that would be beyond the margin of error. Hope this helps!
I have never been fully regular either, because of PCOS. BUT, I remember not getting them for months. It is hard to really sit down and remember what has occured, because I was on Mirena IUD from Sept 09 to April 12. So On the IUD, I never had my cycles.

Before my daughter, my cycles were non existent. I dreaded getting them. I vagley recall having what I thought was a period in Sept 08, and than finding out I was 12 weeks pregnant in Nov 08, but that was more than likely implantation. Being pregnant for 9 months, obviously you don't have a period, so from Oct 08 to June 09, no period. I had the normal bleeding that occurs following delivery, for about 6 weeks. Than after that, nothing.

After having my IUD Removed, I had no period from April 13th to June 3rd, which was expected. My body was withdrawing from hormones it had relied upon for so long. It was an approx. 51 Cycle Day. Than in June, I started on Metformin, and charting. My Cycle in June was 29 days. In July, it was 31 days, and than currently I am in 51 Cycle Days. Aunt Flow was due between the 30th and 32ed cycle day, but didn't visit. I had the beta done on cycle day 41, approx. 11 DPO. My LP has always averaged 8 days. Which is quite short. I do have low progesterone, recent labs showed this:

Testosterone was 0.24
HydroxyProgesterone was <40
DHEAS was 81
Androstenedione was 109
Glucose was 84
BUN was 10
Creatinine was 0.66
Sodium was 139
Potassium was 3.9
Chloride was 105
CO2 was 27
Anion Gap was 7
Calcium was 9.5
Estimated GFR was >60
Prolactin was 10.6
TSH was 3.40
Free T4 was 1.06
Thyroid Peroxidose Antibody was 15
LH was 10.6
FSH was 5.4
Progesterone was 0.34
SHBG was 14

Now, the abnormal levels here were:
1. LH to FSH Ratio. This is normal with PCOS. LH is generally higher than FSH. But they should be 1:1 to each other. Mine were clearly 10.6 to 5.4, which is a ratio of 1:1.96, which is not terrible, but not good either.
2. SHBG was low. This is due to increased androgen production.
3. Progesterone is low. This can be attributed to many m/c and pcos.
4. Insulin is high, which is due to my insulin resistance.

I will be asking the endocrinologist or my pcp to re-run lab work, to see where my hormone levels are, because I do not feel that Metformin is doing anything. I also can not 110% pinpoint my ovulation, because I am always producing LH, as in, my OPTK's always detect positive. Which again, is due to PCOS.

As far as my LP changing, I am on Vitamin B Complex, Vitamin D, and Vitamin A. I am also on Iron supplements for my severe anemia, and I am on Metformin and Levothyroxine. Do any of these change LP?

I am indeed charting. I use Fertility Friend for my charts. I have been charting since June, and have been using OPTK's and BBT to chart when ovulation day is. The reason I use both is because with PCOS, OPTK's are not always reliable. I was fairly regular, and than BOOM this month, this happened. I have to wonder if it is because I missed a few days on Metformin and Synthroid due to being on vacation. Today is CD50, and I am not too sure what my chart is doing.

Thanks for your insight. Curious your thoughts upon reading my response.
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  #6  
September 21st, 2012, 08:05 PM
aubers68's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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just chimming in that some pregnancy test have given false positives... blue dye tests are well known for this....

i've also heard of women getting positive pregnancy tests before a blood test shows anything....

i guess anything is possible. have you tried taking another test?
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  #7  
September 21st, 2012, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aubers68 View Post
just chimming in that some pregnancy test have given false positives... blue dye tests are well known for this....

i've also heard of women getting positive pregnancy tests before a blood test shows anything....

i guess anything is possible. have you tried taking another test?
All urine tests are neg. I need to get the beta, BUT work didn't allow it to happen... too busy
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  #8  
September 21st, 2012, 11:26 PM
Frozenoj's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Can I get a link to your chart? I'd love to take a look. The B Complex should contain B6 which is used to lengthen LP but I'm not sure it contains enough. Do you know how much B6 is in it? And if you're taking a prenatal that should have some B6 in it as well but not enough to affect LP by itself.

Even if your LP was different this month, it shouldn't be 21+ days. I know Clomid can cause your LP to extent to the early 20s but I don't know of anything else that could cause that other than pregnancy. I don't think it's supposed to get longer than like 16 days normally but of course there are always exceptions and I'm not by any means a fertility specialist.

I'm wondering if you just O'd later than you think, or not at all. When they do the beta see if they will test progesterone as well. If you have more than normal that will signal that you are either pregnant or recently ovulated. Were you on the metformin when your last labs were taken (the ones listed above)? Because I know that can also help progesterone as well. If you weren't on it before the higher progesterone could be because of that rather than O or pregnancy. If the progesterone is higher but the beta is negative perhaps they could do an ultrasound. That would show a corpus luteum if you had recently ovulated.

Sorry I don't have a better answer than this. I hope you figure out what is going on quickly so you can either have a happy pregnancy or start a fresh cycle.
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