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TCM thoughts/obsessing/article (just my normal thing:))


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  #1  
June 18th, 2011, 08:23 PM
fromustobaby's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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So, my AL (acupuncture lady) is into not talking about supplements and not really talking about what she is doing...I tell her that I'm having (TMI!!!!) loose stool and dry skin lately, and instead of suggesting what I can do, she just says that she can tell based on my tongue - well, when I asked her what my tongue was doing, she just said that it was a bit red, she didnt say what it was indicating...I ask her how my pulse feels, she says it is hard to describe...I comment on my long ovulatory phase and she says that it is fine - sigh...

She is also only doing about 10 (today I counted 11) needles per time...that combined with no information whatsoever it starting to get to me...

now for some people, no information might be too much information, but I'm the opposite...I'm not sure if I'm going to stick with AL because of this, but follow along with me while I take my obsessing to a whole new level (I assume that if you know me and are reading this, you know I'm long winded - so it is a given that it is going to be long)...

So, 2 symptoms this week were loose stools and having to get up to pee during the night...I usually dont have either of these, so Dr Google led me to this, which I thought was a good read, along with the 2 links as well...
Fertility Enhancing Treatment | Luteal Phase Defect

I'll talk about it below, but also wanted to share another article (and talk a bit about it):
Detailed Listing of Acid / Alkaline Forming Foods
Loose stools can be from too much acid in the diet...I eat almost all acidic foods: oatmeal, blueberries, salmon, walnuts, black beans, lentils - they are all good foods, but they are all acidic...so, next cycle, I'm going to try to eat more alkaline (which is a lot harder I might add): going to add in more tempeh, millet, strawberries, raspberries, eggplant, mushrooms, garlic, onions...

Ok, back to the other article...
Quote:
Symptoms of Luteal Phase Defect include short menstrual cycles and unusual symptoms during the luteal phase such as bleeding, low back pain, nighttime urination, and loose stools.
I only have two of those, but it made me interested in reading the links...


From the "Luteal Phase Defect" Randine Lewis link:
I think this one defines me fairly well (not to a tee, but well):

Quote:
Kidney yang vacuity is another commonly seen luteal phase defect. In this case the temperatures stay low during the follicular phase as they should. The woman in fact always feels cold. Her feet are especially cold at night. Mid-cycle vaginal discharge appears on schedule, and is even profuse in amount. Ovulation occurs, but she has almost no sexual desire, so intercourse feels like a chore. Her basal body temperatures never rise very much. The pre-ovulatory and post-ovulatory baselines differ only by about two-tenths of a degree. Her back is almost always weak and sometimes feels sore. She sleeps well, but has to wake up to urinate at least one or two times per night. Sometimes she spots about a week before her period is due. She can usually tell that she is not pregnant, and that her period is coming because her back aches more than usual. Her bowel movements become somewhat loose the day she starts bleeding, too.

Diagnostically, this woman most closely resembles the kidney yang vacuity scenario in Chinese gynecological diagnosis. She also has some symptoms of spleen qi vacuity, but since the kidney yang is depleted, it will sometimes "borrow" from the spleen energies; therefore, overlapping symptoms are common. Some methods by which kidney yang vacuity can be improved upon is to diminish activities which tax the kidney system - the Oriental philosophy would be to reduce the amount of caffeine or any stimulants, natural or otherwise, including herbal pick-ups like Ma Huang. Don't drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes. Don't ingest any type of nicotine, including patches. (Nicotine is ten times higher in the uterine fluid than in the blood. Second-hand smoke impairs fertility almost as much as smoking cigarettes yourself.) Don't over-exercise or overwork. Get enough sleep. Eat nourishing foods that tonify the kidney system like black beans and legumes. Kelp, parsley, tofu, raspberries, walnuts, wild rice, spirulina, and wheat germ and wheat grass are very tonifying to the kidneys and rich in vitamin B6. Vitamin B6 is helpful in luteal phase defect, as it will boost progesterone levels, and lower elevated prolactin levels. String beans, mulberry, millet and (non-hormonally treated) organ meats are helpful as well. Chestnuts, black sesame seeds, lycium fruit, adzuki beans, gelatin, chestnuts and corn all benefit the kidneys as well. Beneficial herbs include Eucommia, Epimedii, Radix Dipsaci, Semen Cuscutae, Radix Morinda, and Fructus Psoraleae. Rhizoma Cimicifugae (Black Cohosh) raises the yang qi during the luteal phase as well. Psoralea corylifolia tonifies the yang when there is a concomitant spleen qi deficiency. Helonias root (False Unicorn) is considered a uterine restorative, which also stimulates hormonal precursors to trigger progesterone release. It moderates menstruation, and improves progesterone production.
So, for me, the nutrition is pretty close, but, I think I need to start supplementing also...so, I'm going to get two of these for next cycle -Black Cohosh and one other (still need to decide which)...but, it gives good suggestions on what else to bring into my nutrition...



ok, on to the next article, which I really like (cause it is a scientific study)...
Fertility Enhancing Treatment | TCM TREATMENT OF LUTEAL PHASE DEFECT An Analysis of 60 Cases
Quote:
Luteal phase defect is one of the important causes of infertility, accounting for 10—15% of infertility cases, and treatment is in general unsatisfactory. Dang Gui Shao Yao San (Powder of Chinese Angelica and Peony) was reported to result in a pregnancy rate of 33.3%. Professor Sun Ningquan, a well-known traditional medicine gynaecologist, treated the disease with herbs to regulate the menstrual cycle with marked effect, the pregnancy rate being as high as 56%. The following is an analysis of 60 cases.
It then goes into exactly what supplements were prescribed during each phase of the menstrual cycle...its a LONG LONG list of herbs...I am almost 100% that I am kindey yang and spleen qi deficient, so I'm going to go with Randines this next cycle, and if there is a cycle after that, I'm going to try this list...the results are pretty impressive (I warn you , it is pretty long)...and it shows how the BBT reveals how good the herbs were for the cycles...very cool!



I know that this post was mostly about me, cause I'm pretty stuck trying to figure myself out...but, the links are good for everyone (I think - NIkki, the Mrs M seems similar to yours)
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  #2  
June 19th, 2011, 05:34 AM
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thank you for sharing this because I'm pretty sure I have Kidney yang vacuity too. Rememer I was posting about being concerned about my LP only averaging 9-10 days? This makes total sense!!!

for your AL, I'd be concerned that she isn't doing as much as she should...is there another acupuncturist in your area you could try so you could compare?
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  #3  
June 19th, 2011, 06:41 AM
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WOW that's a lot of info and I can truly appreciate your obsessiveness!!

As for your AL...my AL only did about 12 needles in me and it worked so I don't think it's the number of needles that matter - however her lack of information would concern me and frankly, kinda piss me off!!! Is there anyone else you can go to? Have you at all looked into Natropathic doctors? I found mine very helpful and still to this day! Just a thought.
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  #4  
June 19th, 2011, 07:29 AM
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Maybe you should try a different AL if you're not comfortable with yours. Mine would always go really in depth about what she was doing, why she was placing a needle in a certain spot, what supplements I can or should be taking. I actually bought two of them from her. Does your place offer supplements to sell because maybe you can talk to someone else in the office about what you should be taking to help?. And I don't think I ever had more than 15 needles total. I was actually very shocked the first time I went about how many needles they actually used, I assumed quite a few.
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  #5  
June 19th, 2011, 11:22 AM
fromustobaby's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Lyz-
Glad it was helpful

Gwen-
COnsidering my obsessive nature...the lack of information is seriously pissing me off, specially since I'm spending $80/session for her to see me for 5 minutes - saying almost nothing, poke needles into me, leave, come back, poke my back (quick pokes) and then I'm outta there...yea...

I contacted someone in Jacksonville (its about 90 minutes from me) because she has trained with Randine Lewis...if I could do 2 sessions/month with her instead of this, I think it would be worth it...

Dani-
She says that she doesnt believe in supplements...her advice was to eat well - and if you do that, you dont need any supplements...pretty open ended there...

BTW, check out my crap of a temperature today...and this is with waking up 30 minutes AFTER I normally wake up (so it is technically higher than it should be)...
Yea, nice LP I got here...I can feel AF getting ready to start, I'm assuming full force will be here tomorrow if it looks like last months cycle...which means an 8 day LP...
I was not happy this morning
At least I dont need to waste an HPT (not saying that I didnt already waste a few cause I got issues ...)
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  #6  
June 19th, 2011, 11:34 AM
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Tonya - yes, I would definitely say you need to find someone else. I tried one other lady before I found my ND and she was terrible also. She was all about money and pushing herbs like no other. I didn't have a good feeling about it and never went back!!! So trust your gut girl!
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  #7  
June 19th, 2011, 11:37 AM
fromustobaby's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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OMG, the JAcksonville lady wrote back already...she's in NC at a Randine Lewis retreat right now...and wants to meet up, it is meant to be...I THINK I could get away with taking Kaiden with me at least for a consult...I think!
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  #8  
June 19th, 2011, 06:06 PM
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That's so exciting. My acupuncturist was was of the first trained by Dr. Lewis and she's amazing!!! She just started doing this thing where she puts these small disc like things on you and lights them on fire. They slowly heat up and you tell her when they are hot. Apparently she has been super successful with those and only has one patient who didn't get prego while doing the treatments. That patient had some sort of autoimmune thing going on. I'm so glad you're willing to meet this new person and make the drive. My acupuncturist isn't that far, but she isn't close either. She's totally worth the drive and the PITA of finding someone to watch the kids.
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Dec 26 '08, BFP after 21 months thanks to acupuncture
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Jan 28, '09, second u/s, Surprise! two strong heart beats
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  #9  
June 20th, 2011, 03:43 AM
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I'm so sorry you are having so much trouble with your AL. The lack of information would seriously tick me off. Just remember, she works for YOU! If you aren't happy with her services you should definately look elsewhere! Sounds like you have found someone else worth looking into, so yay for that! Hope this new AL can get things on track for you. She sounds amazing!
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  #10  
June 20th, 2011, 06:31 AM
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It must be meant to be!!! That's awesome. So when are you meeting with her? I would think you could take Kaiden with you for the consult as long as she wasn't planning on doing a treatment that same day. Just might want to make sure.

Val - that lighting disc on fire thing kinda freaks me out a bit!!!
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  #11  
June 20th, 2011, 07:51 AM
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Wow! That's a ton of GREAT info!!

I'm sorry AL is being all tight lipped on the info and assistance, but it sounds like it doesn't much matter anymore now that you've made contact with this new Dr!! I tend to think you'll be much happier in her care. Since she obviously subscribes to Randine's methodology, I imagine you'll get more of the experience that you're looking for... if that makes any sense.

While I know my Dr. gives treatment on the day of your consult, not everyone does. as long as you're not receiving treatment during that first visit, I don't see why the K-man couldn't tag along.

As for me, I'm responding really well! She told me TCM isn't magic, but it sure is feeling like it to me. I haven't had any diarrhea in days (all solid movements), my appetite has been fantastic, high energy, great mood, all the constant gurgling that I used to hear & feel in my digestive system has gone and my tongue is pinker.

I'm actually on CD 1 right now. Normally, I'd be freaking out having just had a 5 day LP, but I'm actually pleased for the cycle to be over. My OPKs were weird, based on my temps, it was a crap O if it even was an actual O, our timing was crap, etc. Not to mention, I'm excited to have a full cycle while doing TCM. By the time I started this, I was pretty far into my cycle already, ya know?

The other reason I'm actually on CD 1 is that the blood is very bright... almost hot pinkish when it's usually like a dark maroon and I have no cramps at all. CD 1 is usually a really bad cramp day for me and I feel just fine.

I really think the herbs make a HUGE difference! I may look like a character out of Harry Potter as I'm brewin' up my "potion", but that's just fine with me!

Sorry! Didn't mean to be long-winded myself!!
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  #12  
June 20th, 2011, 09:26 AM
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HOLY CRAP! I just got my progesterone number back - it was 17.1!!!!! Seriously!!!!! I've never had a number that high ever...that's so awesome for me I had a ton of O-pains, so I guess thats why...

Ok you pee stick people, I'm going to have to go to pee sticks anonymous or something - I've taken 6 pee sticks (Casey - this is your fault cause you sent me so many) obviously negative...I never see lines unless there is a line, and there are definitely absolutely no line!

So, dont think I'm pregnant, though I do have a tiny bit of hope after that progesterone number...but, I did schedule my acupuncture appointment!!

Appointment is scheduled for Thursday!! I'm going to leave here when Kaiden normally takes his nap, and hopefully he will sleep for the whole way there, she said that it was fine to bring him to the consult...I figure that after the appointment, we will head out to the beach there and have fun, then he'll be worn out and sleep on the way back

I called the office today, and talked to her office manager and she asked if it was "Tonya"...because the AL had told her about me...isnt that cool?! It made me feel so special

OMG, I'm just so excited to meet with her and get real direction...I think the acupuncture is good in and of itself but the only time it is magic is when the nutrition, supplementation is working in conjunction with it...but, I just KNOW that I'm on the right track with my earlier O and that super high progesterone, yeah!!

Nikki-
OMG! That is so awesome, those who say that acupuncture doesnt work just has to look at you and what has happened so fast - I am beyond excited to see what happens from here with a fresh cycle while you are under her care, and no bad poop, and no AF cramps, whoo hoo!!!

Val-
Did you finally O on Friday, hope so
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  #13  
June 20th, 2011, 09:48 AM
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Reading yalls stories is making me want to get back into it lol!
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  #14  
June 20th, 2011, 06:01 PM
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Strange! I replied earlier today and now don't see it. I Od on Thursday, or at least think that I did. I believe that you O the day before you see the temp spike. I was checking my cervix and it "says" that I Od on Thursday too. I didn't have much EWCM though, so we'll see what happens. I won't be testing any time soon.

Gwen, the disc things are small and for lack of a better way to explain them, I'd say they are sort of like incense because they don't have a flame, they just get warm. They won't burn you.

Tonya, your progesterone looks good. Sounds like you Od this cycle. Your chart looks decent today. You might have just had a wonky temp yesterday morning. I get those periodically and they can just throw your whole chart off. You may want to discard it...or it might be an implantation dip.
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Dec 26 '08, BFP after 21 months thanks to acupuncture
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Jan 28, '09, second u/s, Surprise! two strong heart beats
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365 Days in a Roe


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  #15  
June 20th, 2011, 06:29 PM
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Yea, sorry - stupid moment on my part...well, congrats on Oing at least

As far as that temp goes, I know it was off, but honestly, I feel the need to be negative, cause I cant stand to be too hopeful when I want it so bad, I hate the hurt of disappointment (which is why I test so often - I'm embarrassed to say how often I actually do - but I do it because then I can see negatives and know that I'm not pregnant - instead of letting hope build until 12 DPO or something and be devastated by a BFN)...I know thats not the best, but its just what I do...but anyway, when I got that temp, I took my temp again immediately - and it was 97.51...then I went back to sleep for 1/2 hour, and had never gotten up or anything, and took it again, and it was 97.92...so yeah, I have no clue what was going on with that!
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  #16  
June 20th, 2011, 06:43 PM
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I just had my third acupuncture appointment today and I love it. She is fantastic and always tells me what she is doing! I hope this new one works for you Tonya

As for supplements she has me taking royal jelly and wheatgrass. I take 1 tsp of royal jelly a day and 5 tablets of whaetgrass dissolves in water a day. DH isn't even home this cycle so it is all about getting healthy for next cycle!!
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  #17  
June 21st, 2011, 07:43 AM
MarinaAndCharlie'sMommy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I'm loving reading about your TCM experiences ladies. It sounds wonderful!
Tonya-hoping you get a surprise this cycle!
Niki-so thrilled your GI tract is doing so good. I hope this new cycle will be the cycle you finally get your BFP. I've been dying to see a bfp from you!
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  #18  
June 21st, 2011, 08:20 AM
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Just back from this morning's appt...

The bleeding I thought was AF yesterday has completely gone now, so I dunno what the heck is goin' on. She remarked that my O was late and I agreed. We're gonna watch over the next few days and see if AF does come.

I gave her the full update. She said they are all good first steps. My tongue looks a little better with more pink. She said it still has a white coating in the center and scallops on the sides from my teeth, so we still have work to do.

I also mentioned that my gums don't bleed anymore when I brush my teeth. She explained this can be caused by 2 things: too much heat or, as with my condition, the body doesn't have control. I said it seemed as if everything had been "leaking out of me" and she said "Exactly. No diarrhea, food moving slowly so you can get nutrients. Now your body is retaining... This is good."

I soooo wanna start a fresh cycle now!
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  #19  
June 21st, 2011, 09:09 PM
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I'm so glad you're going to see someone new. I'm an information freak, too, so not being told anything would be driving me crazy. The new woman sounds great! I can't wait to hear more about it!
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  #20  
June 22nd, 2011, 05:44 AM
fromustobaby's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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new cycle has officially started...timing for Jacksonville couldnt be more perfect cause I will be able to use her suggestions the entire cycle...not catching it this past cycle really is ok, and knowing that I'll probably O within the next 3 weeks (as opposed to 5-6 weeks) makes the waiting a lot easier - AND I have full maternity coverage!!!
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