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  • 2 Post By LJD3Tdance
  • 2 Post By LJD3Tdance
  • 1 Post By Jaidynsmum
  • 2 Post By LJD3Tdance
  • 3 Post By jhmomofmany
  • 2 Post By bellasky
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  #1  
March 26th, 2013, 09:34 PM
LJD3Tdance's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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So many of my friends (at least two who are Catholic) changed their facebook profile picture to the equal sign today because in the U.S. it was a big day for the gay marriage debate as the supreme court will sort of end the discussion by either allowing it or upholding California's current decision. Should they uphold the current decision I don't know if they'll end up being an amendment attempt or if it'll just be null and void for a while. If they overturn it, I think it will probably have to be legalized in all 50 states. I'm tired of a lot of the posts that I'm seeing too. They just name call to those who don't agree with their view. It is frustrating.
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  #2  
March 27th, 2013, 04:32 AM
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Over here Civil Partnerships are legal and they hold the same rights and responsibilities as a marriage, so the whole gay marriage thing here is more to do with whether religious organisations and faith groups are going to be forced into performing the ceremonies.
I'm not sure how it will all work out in the US, but here the bills that are being passed state:

No religious organisation or individual minister being compelled to marry same-sex couples or to permit this to happen on their premises
Making it unlawful for religious organisations or their ministers to marry same-sex couples unless their organisation's governing body has expressly opted in to provisions for doing so
Amending the 2010 Equality Act to ensure no discrimination claim can be brought against religious organisations or individual ministers for refusing to marry a same-sex couple
The legislation explicitly stating that it will be illegal for the Church of England and the Church in Wales to marry same-sex couples (these churches are actually bound to marry anyone who requests it)

This way the Government are trying to keep everyone on side, to make it easier, although there are still protests etc and not everyone will be happy, but to many people, as long as they're not being forced to accept it in their church, then fair enough! It's against my religion, but there are other religions that are accepting of it so I guess people see it like anything else that one religion is against while another is for.

I always think though if your religion is not accepting of same sex relationships, then most gay people wouldn't want to be married in a church that won't accept the way they live their lives anyway!! I know my uncle turned his back on the church for that very reason.
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  #3  
March 28th, 2013, 12:18 AM
LJD3Tdance's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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And I'm aware it won't effect our church either way. But, I'm really tired of seeing their side of the issue presented as the only side with any right to speak. Especially when they cite the reasons they think people disagree with it, but I haven't seen anybody cite mine.
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  #4  
March 28th, 2013, 03:51 AM
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I get what you are saying, but it's not really a debate for you to have a view on... It's a human rights issue, and who is anyone to say they should be able to get married, but someone else can't?

Count yourself lucky you were born straight and it's socially acceptable for you to marry the person you love. Millions of others don't have that luxury, all they want is the same rights as you, why begrudge them that...

I do get how much of a struggle this must be if your reasons are based on your religion... just try to imagine being in their shoes
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  #5  
March 28th, 2013, 04:15 AM
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I stay away from any debates about it all. I have gay friends, I had an uncle that was gay, so I do see things from their point of view, but I also see it from my church's point of view too. There are many things in other religions that I don't agree with/believe in, circumcision (I see no point in cutting a piece of your newborn son's body off), not eating pork (I eat other animals, why should pork be any different), or beef (same reason as the pork) etc etc, so the way I personally see it it's the same with two people of the same sex marrying.
So I really am stuck in the middle! I love my friends and I loved my uncle with all my heart, but I love my church too. Being torn is hard so I stay out of it all. I have 2 friends in NZ who are 'marrying' next month, but I am not going to tell them what they are doing is 'wrong' and they shouldn't be doing it, because that is what my church believes, they aren't Catholic, they don't believe they are doing anything out of the ordinary, so who am I to tell them otherwise? As long as my church is not forced into doing something it does not believe in then I personally feel I have no right to say anything against it really so I just stay out of it all! What will be will be and I don't believe God turned my uncle away to burn in Hell because he was gay, my God is a loving and forgiving God so I know my uncle (and his partner) are waiting for me with my daughter.
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  #6  
March 28th, 2013, 11:08 AM
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I may have those same friends in New Zealand, and I don't begrudge them happiness. I'm not entering the debate, I didn't change my profile picture to the anti-equal sign stuff I've seen going up. But I am tired of listening to people bash people who don't whole heartedly accept it. I actually had to take somebody off my facebook yesterday because she was going on and on and on about how hateful people were who didn't agree.

I don't believe gay people are going to Hell, as long as they believe in Jesus as the savior they are no more of a sinner than I am...we all sin. But asking me to be for something I'm not for and telling me how I'm hateful or an idiot for having a different opinion, is totally out of line.

I've said it over and over, none of my bisexual or straight friends (or family) were the ones posting the stuff that got me angry.
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  #7  
March 28th, 2013, 02:17 PM
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I think it is a mistake to assume this won't have an affect on our churches. If gay "marriage" is allowed it will not be long before a gay couple demand a Marriage Mass and then sue the Church when they are refused.

If marriage were just a civil arrangement or a right granted by the gov't then by all means, every citizen should be considered equally under the law and free to marry whomever they wish. But as Catholic Christians we know that true marriage is a sacred union of husband and wife, sealed with a Sacramental vow. It is a vocation to which not everybody is called. A same-sex couple cannot be truly married any more than a woman can be truly ordained.

If you see somebody about to drink poison you don't just say to yourself "well, they mean well and that's what they think is right for them." Pretending that their salvation doesn't really matter does not do any favors. Christ didn't condemn the woman at the well, but He did warn her to "sin no more".
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  #8  
March 28th, 2013, 04:48 PM
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No church will be able to be sued over here, the government are passing bills to make sure that can't happen. But I don't think the marriage thing is as big here as in the US because as I said we already have legal civil partnerships which give the same rights as civil marriages. Bring religion into it and of course it all blows up because of beliefs, but as I said before I don't think most gay people would want to be married in a church that won't accept the way they live their lives anyway!
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  #9  
March 29th, 2013, 04:52 AM
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I agree that it seems that anyone who takes a stand against something that is becoming mainstream is considered closed minded. Just because I don't agree with gay marriage does not mean that I am closed minded. I am holding on to my beliefs just as they are holding on to theirs.

I don't want to feel stunted from sharing my views on Facebook. I need to become stronger and share my opinions without fear of the backlash.
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  #10  
March 30th, 2013, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MindyRambo View Post
I get what you are saying, but it's not really a debate for you to have a view on... It's a human rights issue, and who is anyone to say they should be able to get married, but someone else can't?

Count yourself lucky you were born straight and it's socially acceptable for you to marry the person you love. Millions of others don't have that luxury, all they want is the same rights as you, why begrudge them that...

I do get how much of a struggle this must be if your reasons are based on your religion... just try to imagine being in their shoes
Why do you always come and post on boards you're not a member of? Have being banned 2+ times from JM wasn't enough for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJD3Tdance View Post
I actually had to take somebody off my facebook yesterday because she was going on and on and on about how hateful people were who didn't agree.
I took someone off FB for this reason too. Well, not exactly, but basically - you have your views and I have mine. But if you're openly calling everyone who feels differently about the issue an idiot, I don't think we need to be 'friends'.
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  #11  
March 30th, 2013, 11:58 PM
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How is it a human rights issue? Your sounding like the people trying compare it to the civil rights movement of the 50s-60s it is NOT a human rights issue. And whom are YOU to say "count yourself lucky you were born straight" YOU are very judgmental DO NOT JUDGE LEAST YE BE JUDGED!!!!!!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by MindyRambo View Post
I get what you are saying, but it's not really a debate for you to have a view on... It's a human rights issue, and who is anyone to say they should be able to get married, but someone else can't?

Count yourself lucky you were born straight and it's socially acceptable for you to marry the person you love. Millions of others don't have that luxury, all they want is the same rights as you, why begrudge them that...

I do get how much of a struggle this must be if your reasons are based on your religion... just try to imagine being in their shoes
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  #12  
March 31st, 2013, 12:41 AM
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I hope Jennifer, you are wrong. I hope that the "separation of church and state" they are always throwing around, prevents them from doing that. I fear that you might be right too. Which is why when that moment does come knocking, I'll be like "And you said it wouldn't effect me???"
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  #13  
March 31st, 2013, 10:21 AM
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Well, it wasn't too long ago that a woman either sued or threatened to sue the diocese- I forget where- because the priest refused her Communion at her mother's funeral Mass. As the story unfolded, the woman is in an openly gay relationship- living with her partner- and the priest told her beforehand in private that she was not able to receive the Eucharist, but she went up to receive anyway and he rightfully refused her.

Like most of these stories, the scandal was publicized but the resolution was not. I do recall that the priest was put on suspension, but I don't know the outcome. Fact is so-called separation of church and state (which is NOT constitutional anyway) only works one way.
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  #14  
April 1st, 2013, 03:22 AM
Jaidynsmum's Avatar Dreams do come true....
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Like I said over here we are having bills passed to prevent any kind of legal standing against a church that won't conduct marriage ceremonies that go against their beliefs, but then I guess being in the UK has a lot to do with it as opposed to the US where the constitution is thrown into every 'debate'.
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  #15  
April 7th, 2013, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhmomofmany View Post
Well, it wasn't too long ago that a woman either sued or threatened to sue the diocese- I forget where- because the priest refused her Communion at her mother's funeral Mass. As the story unfolded, the woman is in an openly gay relationship- living with her partner- and the priest told her beforehand in private that she was not able to receive the Eucharist, but she went up to receive anyway and he rightfully refused her.

Like most of these stories, the scandal was publicized but the resolution was not. I do recall that the priest was put on suspension, but I don't know the outcome. Fact is so-called separation of church and state (which is NOT constitutional anyway) only works one way.
It wasn't publicized in my world, cuz that's the first I've heard of it. I did hear of a different story like that, but it didn't have any sueing involved.
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