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I asked for reasons why or why not, which is fine and contructive. But I don't think demeaning other's reason's like "because my husband is or the rest of my family is" is positive or constructive. For the mommas who put their reasons for not doing it, that is great and very informative. But I do think when you start to put down someone else's reason for doing it, whether you agree or not, it is not basically not nice nor necessary. And I never said anything about anyone "being out to get me", you missed the point of the whole post.
You can call me out, it's okay.
I didn't demean anyone. I said I don't understand that argument and it's not like this is the first time I've heard it. It's nothing against the PERSON who made it, it's against the argument. When is doing something (anything) just because everyone else is doing it a sound reason to back up an opinion, especially when it comes to permanently modifying a newborn baby? Please explain so I can understand.
well i'm clearly not team blue in any way, but my mom had all 3 of my brothers circumcised. she had it done for the health reason as well. but she also told me about a year ago when we were talking about circumcision that if she could go back, she wouldn't have had it done.
if my child were a boy, then i'm not really certain whether i'd have it done or not.
I just wish that people (not saying anyone in particular) would respect each others decisions no matter what that may be; formula feeding vs breast feeding, co-sleeping vs crib sleeping, CIO vs not CIO, all natural birth vs having an epi. I don't know why women, particularly mothers feel the need to feel superior towards another mother as if they make all the right decisions and someone who doesn't make those same decisions is inferior to them. We are all mothers trying to do what's right and best for our children and we should all be supportive of that.
Pushing articles or statics that are skewed towards that persons views is demeaning towards mothers who have a different view. For as many articles and statics in favor of one thing there are just as many that go the other way.
I just wish that people (not saying anyone in particular) would respect each others decisions no matter what that may be; formula feeding vs breast feeding, co-sleeping vs crib sleeping, CIO vs not CIO, all natural birth vs having an epi. I don't know why women, particularly mothers feel the need to feel superior towards another mother as if they make all the right decisions and someone who doesn't make those same decisions is inferior to them. We are all mothers trying to do what's right and best for our children and we should all be supportive of that.
Pushing articles or statics that are skewed towards that persons views is demeaning towards mothers who have a different view. For as many articles and statics in favor of one thing there are just as many that go the other way.
couldn't agree more! that is the point I was trying to make as well.
I just wish that people (not saying anyone in particular) would respect each others decisions no matter what that may be; formula feeding vs breast feeding, co-sleeping vs crib sleeping, CIO vs not CIO, all natural birth vs having an epi. I don't know why women, particularly mothers feel the need to feel superior towards another mother as if they make all the right decisions and someone who doesn't make those same decisions is inferior to them. We are all mothers trying to do what's right and best for our children and we should all be supportive of that.
Pushing articles or statics that are skewed towards that persons views is demeaning towards mothers who have a different view. For as many articles and statics in favor of one thing there are just as many that go the other way.
See I don't agree. I think some of us do have more experience or have done more research on certain topics, whatever they are, and are just trying to educate others. And if everybody did the whole "if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all" type of thing nobody would learn anything and possibly change their minds. I've changed my mind on a TON of subjects since becoming a mom five years ago and that's because other women have told me their sides of certain subjects. You have to step out of your own head if you're going to grow as a person. I don't disrespect other women's choices but if I don't agree I'm darn well going to tell them why and then once they know ALL the information then they can make an informed decision.
See I don't agree. I think some of us do have more experience or have done more research on certain topics, whatever they are, and are just trying to educate others. And if everybody did the whole "if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all" type of thing nobody would learn anything and possibly change their minds. I've changed my mind on a TON of subjects since becoming a mom five years ago and that's because other women have told me their sides of certain subjects. You have to step out of your own head if you're going to grow as a person. I don't disrespect other women's choices but if I don't agree I'm darn well going to tell them why and then once they know ALL the information then they can make an informed decision.
I have changed my mind about several things but I have research those items myself and it has not been from people posting articles and such. Some one has mentioned their opinion and *I* went out and read articles from both sides to make an informed decision. I think you can explain why you choose to do a certain thing without belittling another opinions, that's all I'm saying. If you asked me a couple of years ago, I would have told you I would never cloth diaper, not extended rear faced or co-slept. You have to do what feels right for you and your child.
Since this is still about what I said I just want to say that I apologize to Junie. I did not mean it as a personal attack. I just said that I don't UNDERSTAND the particular reason she gave for circing. I also sent her a PM apologizing if I offended her.
I totally agree with Missa. If it hadn't been for many people with very strong voices and opinions, I wouldn't know half of what I do.
I also think that there is a way to start a thread offering info and support and anther way which will obviously start drama.
Well I do agree with that. You can disagree without belittling other people's choices but their REASONS are a whole different matter. I have heard reasons for choices that have been so mind numbingly stupid and uninformed that it blew my mind. And when it comes to a choice possibly harming a baby I want to hear a real reason especially if I have a real reason for that person to make an entirely different choice. This goes for a lot of topics. I just flat out don't see how a mother can look at a video or pictures of a newborn being circumcised like my son was WITHOUT pain medication during or after and be ok with doing it. I just can't and I won't apologize for feeling that way.
Anyway, I'm honestly not a drama inducing person and I've said my piece so I'm out of this. If I pissed anybody off I'm sorry but it's how I feel and I can't help how I feel.
I guess i never posted the reasons we DO circumcise.
1. DH was adamant that it was done even after viewing anti-circ info. (i wanted our decision to be equal on both sides)
2. semi religious
3. I'm honestly really grossed out by what i see on a daily basis as a nurse with many (not all) circumcised men. Edema in the foreskin causing extreme pain, swelling, and inability to urinate. Severe infections of the foreskin causing again extreme pain, swelling, and inability to urinate. I've seen a couple men whose foreskins have gotten pushed back and then swelled and cut off the circulation to their penises and they went on to have circs that day. I have only seen that happen twice in my practice. I frequently see men whose penises shrink so deeply into their foreskins that they just squirt everywhere when the pee causing skin problems on their groins and legs requiring hospital stays.
I'm not saying these are problems in the general population, as i see mostly ill people. But i do see at least one of these problems daily. That along with our other personal reasons was enough to make it worth while to me to have it done for our son. I don't pass any judgement on anyone who chooses not to circ. Most people don't see what i see, and will teach proper hygiene to their kids. I do agree with the pain aspect. I definitely recommend those having the procedure done, to have it done by a surgeon who can give adequate anesthesia. That is my only regret in circing.
Since this is still about what I said I just want to say that I apologize to Junie. I did not mean it as a personal attack. I just said that I don't UNDERSTAND the particular reason she gave for circing. I also sent her a PM apologizing if I offended her.
I totally agree with Missa. If it hadn't been for many people with very strong voices and opinions, I wouldn't know half of what I do.
I also think that there is a way to start a thread offering info and support and anther way which will obviously start drama.
Who knew that my very quick response to the original question would lead to such a whirlwind discussion! I didn't really provide a reason in my original response, but there are more than just "because everyone is doing it." Honestly, this is the first time I checked this thread since I posted, so I assure all that I was not offended by what I didn't know.
Right after I responded, I thought, "Yeah, I shouldn't have posted anything." I knew that this would be a controversial topic, so I never even checked the thread again.
I am a very well-educated woman, and I research everything thoroughly before making any decisions in life, let alone about this baby. I'm a Type A personality with a career in writing, so research is one of the things I do best. My original response did sound pretty unfounded, like I had just willy-nilly decided to circumcise without weighing the pros and cons to both.
There's a lot more to my husband's and my mutual decision to circumcise, but I honestly didn't feel like creating more of an argument here. And I still don't.
Just know that I'm not easily offended. I believe that everyone is entitled to her own opinion, and I don't think that any particular way is the right way for ALL. There are only appropriate decisions on a case-by-case basis. And for this subject, my husband and I have a made a decision, and no amount of research or chastising or debating or whatever by anyone else is going to change our minds.
That's all. I love this DDC, and I will certainly continue to avoid posting on the controversial threads. But I love that we're a group of women with varied opinions, from varied backgrounds, and different ways of approaching parenthood. I've learned a lot from the BTDT moms, and I know that I still have a lot to learn from them.
I stand firm in my opinion on circumcision though.
See I don't agree. I think some of us do have more experience or have done more research on certain topics, whatever they are, and are just trying to educate others. And if everybody did the whole "if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all" type of thing nobody would learn anything and possibly change their minds. I've changed my mind on a TON of subjects since becoming a mom five years ago and that's because other women have told me their sides of certain subjects. You have to step out of your own head if you're going to grow as a person. I don't disrespect other women's choices but if I don't agree I'm darn well going to tell them why and then once they know ALL the information then they can make an informed decision.
Not to turn this into a debate, but how do you know that said person didn't already do all the research? If you don't agree, it's best to say you don't agree and leave it at that. If they ask you as to why, then go ahead and state your reasons. If you're (this is general now) not asked for it, then it is disrespectful and demeaning (especially if you're assuming) to that other persons view point. Not everyone needs to be educated on a matter just because they don't agree with your pov. It's best to tread on the line of thinking that said person has educated themselves and they just came to an opposite pov. When a person pushes their agenda on others is when I find the person has turned their intended party off.
❤ Big Thanks to Vicki, trishosaurus, & Shortcake for the great siggies of my kids! ❤
Liz (36) Kev (35)
Tiana (16) Doni (14) Lil Kev (8) Ethan 7/23/12 Lil Roo 10/29/11
Last edited by K.A.T; April 13th, 2012 at 05:29 PM.
Who knew posting facts was "shoving it down" people's throats. I thought t was sharing and comparing the education we've learnt? This is that tamest Circ vs no circ I've ever read! No one is being called names, or having their parenting critiqued. When you ape a tonne of time researching a topic such as this and some of he reasons against is, is like nerve damage etc people do get passionate. I'm
Not an inactivist at all, whilst I don't circ and I will discuss what I've learned with anyone willing to listen, if tey go away as educate themselves and stil decide to circ I'm not goin to spend time upset about it. It's not about being superior but there are some things that parents do, that aren't always bestt choices (this is NOT in direct with circumcision but in general) and iMO facts like well researched by scientists medical field etc trump opinions Everytime. See I research every parenting decision I make, mind sound silly, but I want to make sure I am doing the best with what I know. There's tonnes of things I don't know about, and someone has come along and said wait a minute your carseat straps need adjusting, or whatever and I've taken advice and researched things I never even thought was a big deal. I don't understand why people get so sensitive, i am not a perfect parent I've made many errors, so if I come across all high and mighty maybe I'm beig misinterpreted. All i want to do is share what I know, you do what you gotta do. I believe circumcision is a personal decision, so personal the person who owns the penis should be the one to make it... And this is why I don't circumcise, like I said, you do what you gotta do.
Emma, DP of Laur. Future-Step-Mama to J (14) and K (9). Mama to Jaelah (6) Oliver (4) Mianna (2) & Harper (11mths). WTTC lucky #7 in 2014.
Thank you Yvonne (Jaidynsmum) for another gorgeous siggy
I also wanted to add, there's not a person here who I don't adore. I was hesitant going into this with you ladies because I respect and think highly of everyone here. You're all such sweet loving people and I know whether you circ or not, you will make amazing Mothers.
__________________
Emma, DP of Laur. Future-Step-Mama to J (14) and K (9). Mama to Jaelah (6) Oliver (4) Mianna (2) & Harper (11mths). WTTC lucky #7 in 2014.
Thank you Yvonne (Jaidynsmum) for another gorgeous siggy
Maybe its because this is the first parenting/mommy board I have been on or maybe its because I am American and its more common in my area to do it, rather than not to, But I never knew or realized circumcising was such a controversial topic. If I would have known that, I wouldn't have asked the question. Topics like this cause me to get upset and worked up and I don't like to have that feeling, especially over something on the stupid internet. I honestly wish now I would have never posted the question.
Maybe its because this is the first parenting/mommy board I have been on or maybe its because I am American and its more common in my area to do it, rather than not to, But I never knew or realized circumcising was such a controversial topic. If I would have known that, I wouldn't have asked the question. Topics like this cause me to get upset and worked up and I don't like to have that feeling, especially over something on the stupid internet. I honestly wish now I would have never posted the question.
This is why I wish I hadn't even posted on this thread at all. Against my better judgment, I did. And I made an even bigger mistake by not providing a clear explanation (but instead more of a statement) and making it seem like I had made an uneducated decision. Wanting to avoid any hubbub, I never checked back in until today when I got Melanie's PM apology. And I was like, "Apology for what?"
When I'm really torn and want information on a topic, I post a thread or check out others' threads. However, this is one decision that DH and I made a long time ago, and I didn't need to see any discussion to make up my mind. Just like I avoid discussions about religion and politics, I also should stay clear of topics like this!
Don't feel bad about posting the question. I get that it's less controversial where you're from. I'm from your neck of the woods too, originally, and circumcision is common practice (and not just for cosmetic reasons).
I think everyone has the best of intentions on this board, even if opinions or approaches to defending those opinions aren't popular to everyone. Just don't stress about it. My feelings were certainly not hurt, nor was my mind changed.
Maybe its because this is the first parenting/mommy board I have been on or maybe its because I am American and its more common in my area to do it, rather than not to, But I never knew or realized circumcising was such a controversial topic. If I would have known that, I wouldn't have asked the question. Topics like this cause me to get upset and worked up and I don't like to have that feeling, especially over something on the stupid internet. I honestly wish now I would have never posted the question.
This is what bothers me about this sort of thing. People SHOULD be able to post about topics like this without it turning into a debate or controversial. The whole point of boards like this is to get support and when people are afraid to post about certain things that they might want support or advice for that's not right. THERE are ways to give your own opinion without belittling another person. I personally wasn't going to post because I've seen how out of hand this topic can get but I know that the person who tends to need support is the pro-circ person so I wanted to add my support that yes we do.
I will agree that is MUCH tamer than other sites and boards I've seen and I do believe that is because we do have a great group of women. The last board I was on was full of pushy people who would make people feel bad for doing something that wasn't on the crunchy mama list, in fact we were called out by other DDCs for it. After a few posts like that our group was never the same and I would hate for something like that to happen to our group.
I just wish that people (not saying anyone in particular) would respect each others decisions no matter what that may be; formula feeding vs breast feeding, co-sleeping vs crib sleeping, CIO vs not CIO, all natural birth vs having an epi. I don't know why women, particularly mothers feel the need to feel superior towards another mother as if they make all the right decisions and someone who doesn't make those same decisions is inferior to them. We are all mothers trying to do what's right and best for our children and we should all be supportive of that.
Pushing articles or statics that are skewed towards that persons views is demeaning towards mothers who have a different view. For as many articles and statics in favor of one thing there are just as many that go the other way.
I agree, someone shouldn't assume the mother isn't educated just because her opinion is different from yours.
Just want to say thank you to Adrienne for accepting my apology and for not being offended.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emeraldeyedimp
I just wish that people (not saying anyone in particular) would respect each others decisions no matter what that may be; formula feeding vs breast feeding, co-sleeping vs crib sleeping, CIO vs not CIO, all natural birth vs having an epi. I don't know why women, particularly mothers feel the need to feel superior towards another mother as if they make all the right decisions and someone who doesn't make those same decisions is inferior to them. We are all mothers trying to do what's right and best for our children and we should all be supportive of that.
Pushing articles or statics that are skewed towards that persons views is demeaning towards mothers who have a different view. For as many articles and statics in favor of one thing there are just as many that go the other way.
This is a good list of hot parenting topics that tend to lead to a debate, I'd also add vaccinations to the list.
I think we do have a great group of women here and I have been so thankful this ddc hasn't got too far into these topics yet. I knew better than to respond to it but I did it anyway. Next time I will think twice before I click on a link where I know it will turn into drama.
I might do it, because statistically it seems to help with AIDS prevention in Africa.. and the idea of possibly maybe being able to save him from some future one night mistake is appealing... but I can't, after seeing the pictures on wikipedia, of the poor little baby boy penises. And I can't for fear of a slip up by a sleepy doctor!
In my own experience, I can't seem to tell whether men are circumcised or not visually or otherwise.
