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  #41  
April 24th, 2013, 01:41 PM
Jinnah
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All I can say at this point is that we all have a choice to make. The Bible says what it says. We can choose to twist it, ignore it, say it doesn't mean that, that it no longer applies... whatever. God is the same, today, as He has always been. He does not change his mind. We can choose to follow Him, even if that makes us unpopular. We can choose the "popular choice" and turn our backs on God's Word. I cannot tell you what to choose, all I can do is make my own choices for me and for my family.

I think it's awful that some of you want to indirectly call me a bigot, but if that is what I get for believing the Bible, so be it. I can tell you that the gay people I do know, do not view me the way some of you do. BUT, my concern is with God, not with others' opinions of me.

Choose you this day who you will serve. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. I will follow Him no matter how unpopular that makes me. All I care about is what God thinks of me.

It does not matter if some Christian pastor somewhere decides to ignore scripture or twist it to fit their wants. The Bible is very clear on that:

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

That's about all I can say on this. Think of me how you wish. I am okay with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan and nina View Post
Everything I feel and wanted to say has been said and its probably better to not keep hashing this out since her original question has been answered... But I do have a question; and I really do mean it as a question because I'm genuinely curious about it! I just wanted to clarify it, because it could probably also be read as a smart-butt comment.
So if you want to teach your children to be kind to everyone and to not bully, how can you, at the same time, teach them that loving a person of their same gender is a sin and they will go to hell for it? I just don't understand and that has always been one of my big issues with religion. ...
I just wanted to respond to you, Nina, as I can tell you are being genuine. I guess I don't quite understand the question. I do teach my children to be kind and not to bully. I teach them the word of God. We do as God commands, even if it's easier not to.

Can you maybe clarify what you want to know?
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  #42  
April 24th, 2013, 02:13 PM
KMH KMH is online now
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I cannot speak for Nina, but I might kind of know what she's asking, and I have struggled with similar thoughts. Being a Mother changes you and makes you think about things differently. I'll ask it like this: What if Elijah comes to you one day and says "Mom, I met this man. We are in love and he makes me want to be a better person every day. We want to get married and raise a family together. I have never been happier."

How do you respond? Do you say that he isn't allowed to be happy? Do you tell him that he somehow has to fundamentally change who he is somehow (I don't even know that someone can do that)? Do you tell him to marry a woman and live a lie?

I hope I'm coming across as genuine and that real, honest discussion can happen. I was raised to believe that homosexuality was a sin, but now I have more questions than answers. I guess I thought that by the time I was a "grown-up" and had my own kids, I'd know all the answers, but that definitely isn't the case!
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  #43  
April 24th, 2013, 02:22 PM
Jinnah
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I'm going to reject that. My answer would just further the debate that I didn't intend to get into in the first place.
  #44  
April 24th, 2013, 02:31 PM
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That's okay, you aren't obligated to answer, and I'm sorry you were drug into a debate that you didn't intend to get into. I admire you for being principled.
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  #45  
April 24th, 2013, 02:37 PM
Pageturner
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Know that for what it's worth, I don't think you are wrong, Jinnah. I just know how I feel about it. There is no real right or wrong opinion, we all have to make peace with what we know to be true.
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  #46  
April 24th, 2013, 02:40 PM
Jinnah
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Thank you, both of you.
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  #47  
April 24th, 2013, 03:10 PM
Jinnah
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KMH, I just think that we all have our crosses to bear. We have to choose to follow God or not. Our desires or His. God never promised it would be easy. I guess that was a simple answer.

Those who reject the Bible have to answer to God, not me.
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  #48  
April 24th, 2013, 03:19 PM
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Jinnah you remind me of my mother (who I love to death by the way!) I know where you are coming from because it's how I was raised. Religion is a tricky thing.
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  #49  
April 24th, 2013, 03:20 PM
Jinnah
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For those that do believe the Bible, here are both Old and New Testament verses that teach about this topic. It is very hard to misinterpret, as the meaning is very clear. There are those they attempt to change it to fit what they want, but you have to do a lot of twisting to get something different. Also, I regularly hear people likening it to interracial marriage, but that was not condemned in the Bible. *Note: something that is an abomination to God one day is still an abomination to God later. He doesn't change His mind.

Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."

1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"

1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers"

Romans 1:26-27
New King James Version (NKJV)
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
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  #50  
April 24th, 2013, 03:39 PM
Jinnah
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Some food for thought:

Matthew 24:9
King James Version (KJV)
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

2 Timothy 4
King James Version (KJV)
4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

The Leviticus argument is also common. This is not the only verse homosexuality is condemned. There are moral laws and ceremonial laws. There is a difference.
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  #51  
April 24th, 2013, 03:39 PM
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Before you play the victim saying you didn't want this to turn into a debate; maybe you should have thought before posting such a heated topic that you very well knew would offend a VERY LARGE group of people, myself included.

" The Bible says what it says. We can choose to twist it, ignore it, say it doesn't mean that, that it no longer applies... whatever. God is the same, today, as He has always been. He does not change his mind. "


So from reading the quote above I would ASSUME that you haven't taken advantage of any of the changes religion has taken in the past few hundred or even thousands of years? (Sarcasm here.) Religion has constantly changed to suit the needs of the times, as well as evolved as people learn more. And if you can't admit that you are in complete denial, as well as a liar.

Here are a few examples of things in the Bible that were once considered SINS:

-Wearing cotton or polyester blends
-Eating any seafood that didn't have scales or fins ( You don't eat lobster or shrimp do you??)
-Associating with women on their periods (Do you keep your husband and family separate from you while you are menstruating?)
-Gossip
-Shaving (Hope your husband likes you hairy )
-Eating pork
-Fortune tellings
-Rounded haircuts (and beards)
-Football
-Wearing gold
-Pulling out. Yup, it's a sin to pull out.. lol!
-Oh and one of my personal favorites.. A child should be put to death if they curse their parents. (Yikes, I sure hope your children are well behaved!)


Those are just a few of many, many, MANY things the bible doesn't condone that clearly people don't follow today. And for good reason. As we have learned more, we change our views. This does not mean it is wrong to have religion, and in fact I believe it can be a great thing. But to say that it has never changed and you strictly follow the bible is clearly a load of crap. So would you say that everything I listed still applies? From your own words, it should. But I highly doubt you believe that. If you have a problem with being homosexual, fine so be it. But don't say it's because you follow the Bible's word.. Because clearly you (and a whole bunch of others) have picked and chosen to leave things out when they see fit. Why ban homosexuality when a few verses down it bans wearing cotton? Absolutely crackers! As a good friend of mine would say.


As for it being taught in public schools? It is a fact of life. And not yours, or anybody else's religions can, or ever will dictate what is taught in our schools (Thank goodness!) Why should a school teach that homosexuality is a "sin"? The whole IDEA of sin is a religious topic that needs to be left at home. It may be hard for you to believe, but not everybody believes in the concept of sin, because that is all it is.. A concept.

I know that I will never be able to change the mind of someone like you.. But I just had to speak up. Because I feel personally insulted and outraged by this entire topic.

Would it be okay for me to say "It's okay for my kids to go to school with black kids and be friendly to them, as long as the school doesn't teach them that it's OKAY to be black or to teach about anyone who is black." How ridiculous would that sound?? To you, it might be two totally different things. But to me it is the SAME discrimination, and just as equally offensive and hurtful.

And by the way, it is scientifically proven now that being gay isn't a choice, just saying.
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  #52  
April 24th, 2013, 03:43 PM
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I was reading this thread on my lunch at school and was mentally "liking" people's comments!

all I know is, I am pro marriage equality and think society should work on improving all marriage and have people going into it willing to work on it. I think divorce is a bigger problem than gay marriage!

Jinnah, I hope that you are making the right decision to homeschool ... And I'm sure there's more behind your decision than sex ed. As a teacher though, I do think it's good to be in a diverse environment and get to know many different people.

Love ya, Leanna!
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  #53  
April 24th, 2013, 03:47 PM
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Cuatx, I think your responses are incredibly rude and insulting. There is plenty of room for intellectual discussion and an exchange of ideas without name-calling.
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  #54  
April 24th, 2013, 03:49 PM
Jinnah
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AltMommy, I honestly just wanted to know what is going on in schools so I can make an informed decision. I am sorry I have offended you. However, I stand by what I have said. I tried to stay away from debating it, but when someone asks a genuine question, I answer it. Even with KMH, I PM'd her an answer and then posted it.

As I said above, there is a difference between ceremonial and moral laws. You have mixed the two of them up in that list. I follow the moral laws (although I am not perfect, and if I mess up, I repent). The ceremonial laws were done away with when Jesus died on the cross. I hope that clarifies. So many people make these arguments without truly studying the Bible.

One thing that I just don't get... how the people who are gay that know me have no problem with what I believe. Why do you, when you don't even know me? I am kind to and get along with everyone I know. I wish some of you could meet me and you would see. I am not a person who hates. I do not mistreat anyone. All I do is follow God.

On the flip side of the argument you made about what is taught in school... those with the religious beliefs should not have it forced down their children's throats, either. This is why it should not be taught at school from any viewpoint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoverlyJules View Post
I was reading this thread on my lunch at school and was mentally "liking" people's comments!

all I know is, I am pro marriage equality and think society should work on improving all marriage and have people going into it willing to work on it. I think divorce is a bigger problem than gay marriage!

Jinnah, I hope that you are making the right decision to homeschool ... And I'm sure there's more behind your decision than sex ed. As a teacher though, I do think it's good to be in a diverse environment and get to know many different people.

Love ya, Leanna!
I do have more reasons for homeschooling. Divorce is definitely a HUGE problem. The Bible states when divorce is allowed and that is ignored, also.

We do have a diverse environment and know many different people, including gay people, and they like us, religious view and all!
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Last edited by Jinnah; April 24th, 2013 at 03:52 PM.
  #55  
April 24th, 2013, 03:55 PM
Jinnah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMH View Post
Cuatx, I think your responses are incredibly rude and insulting. There is plenty of room for intellectual discussion and an exchange of ideas without name-calling.
Don't worry, KMH. She is a bigot towards Christians, but doesn't seem to see the hypocrisy! I've never treated a gay person the way she is treating me, but I'm the bigot!
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  #56  
April 24th, 2013, 04:19 PM
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I think this is one of those topics that people will have to agree to disagree with. Just as strongly as you feel that homosexuality is a sin, I feel it is not. You'll never ever ever change my mind or even remotely make me see it your way, and I'll never change your mind either. We're lucky enough to live in a free country. If my child turns out gay, it will be OK because we are in the United States of America, where people can be who they are and believe what they believe, gotta love that... Right?

My BIL has similar beliefs as you, Desiree. There are just certain topics that are better left in talked about. One time we got into it about people excepting Jesus Christ as their lord and savior and heaven and Hell, my husband and I argued our very logic (IMO) points and the only thing his brother took from it was "we don't believe in God" :smackhead: NOT TRUE at all, but that all he heard. Point being, lets drop it because no one is going to change anyone's mind.
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  #57  
April 24th, 2013, 04:25 PM
Jinnah
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Really?? Middle School Girls Forced to Ask Classmates for

ETA: Jill, I agree that it's better to drop it at this point. I don't think anyone is going to change their mind. I appreciate those who respectfully shared their views.
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  #58  
April 24th, 2013, 04:47 PM
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For the record, the video I posted provides explanations for each bible verse you mentioned. I'm not saying that to beat a dead horse, I genuinely think you might be interested in hearing how another Christian might view the same thing.
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  #59  
April 24th, 2013, 05:22 PM
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Kristen, just watched, great video.
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  #60  
April 24th, 2013, 05:24 PM
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I watched it too...very interesting indeed!
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