Log In Sign Up

Collin shoved Bailey.


Forum: 2008 Playroom

Notices

Welcome to the JustMommies Message Boards.

We pride ourselves on having the friendliest and most welcoming forums for moms and moms to be! Please take a moment and register for free so you can be a part of our growing community of mothers. If you have any problems registering please drop an email to boards@justmommies.com.

Our community is moderated by our moderation team so you won't see spam or offensive messages posted on our forums. Each of our message boards is hosted by JustMommies hosts, whose names are listed at the top each board. We hope you find our message boards friendly, helpful, and fun to be on!

Reply Post New Topic
  Subscribe To 2008 Playroom LinkBack Topic Tools Search this Topic Display Modes
  #1  
June 7th, 2011, 08:38 AM
Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 53,701
Send a message via AIM to MommaDucks Send a message via Yahoo to MommaDucks
Collin has been sent to his room for a while.. I am so angry with him, I just can't let him come out...

I'm over here folding laundry when Collin starts yelling at Bailey to stop looking at him. Something he's been doing a lot of. Then shoves her into the front door. Hard. I don't tolerate violence from them, so I just immediately sent him to his room and calmed Bailey down and made sure she was alright. After 3 minutes, I went to get him. Talked to him, and told him to apologize to Bailey. He refused.

I kept asking him why he pushed her, all he would say is because she kept looking at him. I explained that we do not push/hit/hurt anyone which he ignored, just making his sad face and hiding his face behind his hands, followed by closing his eyes when I moved his hands...

Each time he comes out of his room I ask him if he is going to say sry and he runs back in... I know he's not going to..he usually does when I ask so I haven't a clue what to do. I don't want him to think it's okay....but he is just 3... I feel so conflicted.
__________________

Nicole: Tom's Wife [5.7.05]; Mommy of Thomas [9.6.05], Collin [1.17.08], & Bailey [10.2.09]
Reply With Quote
  #2  
June 7th, 2011, 09:26 AM
Aidan's Mommy
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Middle of nowhere, ON, Canada
Posts: 18,187
Send a message via MSN to TheMommyProject
When Aidan refuses to apologize for his wrong behaviour after a time out, he immediately gets another time out. On a really stubborn day, he's been known to go 4 or 5 time outs before apologizing. Thankfully that doesn't happen often, or I'd lose my mind.

I say keep following through and if he won't do it, then back to his room (assuming that's your timeout spot) until he's ready to come around.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #3  
June 7th, 2011, 10:29 AM
*Cyndee*'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,840
Send a message via ICQ to *Cyndee*
I agree, at this age it's all you can do.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
June 7th, 2011, 11:58 AM
bostoncreampie's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: May 2007
Location: outer space
Posts: 22,681
Send a message via AIM to bostoncreampie
I don't force Walter to apologize. I ask him to, and if he says no I explain to him that it's the right thing to do and explain how he effects other peoples feelings by not. I'm the weirdo in the group who doesn't do time outs either though so maybe you dont care what I do. I would rather raise a child who wants to do the right thing than forcing them to. I just feel like in our family, respecting his choice and modeling good behavior and role playing is more effective in teaching, I feel like the other methods are more to control immediate behavior and not in the best interest of teaching in the long term.
__________________
mama to 5 yr old DS1 , 3 year old DS2 , and nursling DD .
Reply With Quote
  #5  
June 7th, 2011, 12:27 PM
Aidan's Mommy
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Middle of nowhere, ON, Canada
Posts: 18,187
Send a message via MSN to TheMommyProject
Kristen, I respect how you parent, so this isn't meant as criticism, but I wanted to address your statement that "the other methods are more to control immediate behavior and not in the best interest of teaching in the long term". When I use a time out, it's not for control at all, it's to difuse a bad situation. You can't reason or explain right or wrong with a 3 yr old that is in the middle of a tantrum or tuning you out. The time out gets you to where everyone is calm again and then you have the discussion. If Aidan doesn't want to apologize at the end of a time out, then I know he's still steaming and he just needs more time. I know that he knows that saying sorry is the right thing, which is why he'll always come around to that.

The long term benefit is evident to me because he rarely gets in trouble for doing the same thing over and over again. And he's constantly telling me what is good behaviour and what is bad, so he clearly knows wrong from right.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #6  
June 7th, 2011, 02:53 PM
bostoncreampie's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: May 2007
Location: outer space
Posts: 22,681
Send a message via AIM to bostoncreampie
That's fine Gillian. I honestly have done time outs before and they just don't work for us. Walter is a very unique child. I'll find myself getting stressed out and starting to use time outs again just because I am so darn exhausted and I don't always have patience, and we get in to these phases where things are ten times worse. The biggest red flag is that during those funks, every time I ask him to do something, he asks if he'll get a time out if he doesn't, or if he'll lose his dessert or a toy or a story, etc. I don't like him basing his good choices on what's in it for him. I want him to make good choices because it's the right thing to do. So I try and play up how he effects other people's emotions, how it influences him having friends, having kids want to play with him, disappointing his parents or making his brother afraid of him, etc.

And for me personally, I totally use time outs as a means to have control. I'm a controlling person, so when my child is yelling or saying no or is teasing my baby and won't stop when I say to, my blood boils. It kills me to not be able to control my kids. Which is a small part of why I can't do them. And sometimes I find myself being so irritated with him that I feel I can't "let him get away with being naughty." As if he needs to be held accountable. And I just don't feel like that's effective in terms of getting him to stop negative behaviors. In my mind, it doesn't feel like a good method of teaching empathy, kindness, etc. Doing other things feel more effective in the long term. If I force myself to loosen up and take a deep breath and let go of the fact that I can't control him in the moment to be "good," I can find better ways of diffusing the situation, which is of course something that I still do without a traditional time out. There are times that I pick him up and put him in his room and tell him he needs to have space to feel better, or I pick Sam up and we both leave Walter. Sometimes he just needs a hug or me telling him I'm sorry he's feeling so cranky and if there's something we can do to make him feel better. I definitely don't let him "get away with things" which is what I would imagine a lot of people assume happens. I completely 100% agree with you that there is no reasoning with 3 year olds when they do wrong. I wait until he cools off and then we process.

I still call him on everything that would merit a traditional time out. And I still always use "something" in the place of where you would use a time out, until processing and talking.

So I guess that's a longer explanation as to why I don't force him to say sorry either. 99% of the times that he won't, he does later that day or before bed. I feel like I am in some way raising an emotionally mature 3 year old. He just had a melt down and as I just removed myself from his room right now with my laptop, he came to me and said he needed to tell me something, "Did you know why I was acting that way? It's because I wanted you to play with me." Maybe he was just born to be emotionally sensitive and mature and that's why time outs do more damage than good. I don't know if it's him naturally or if he is that way as a result of how we try and do things.
__________________
mama to 5 yr old DS1 , 3 year old DS2 , and nursling DD .

Last edited by bostoncreampie; June 7th, 2011 at 03:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
June 7th, 2011, 02:59 PM
IneedCoffee's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,195
I thought it said Collin SHAVED Bailey... and all I could think of is all that pretty hair that just started growing!!

Poor baby girl. I hope they get this worked out quickly.
__________________
I Love my

My Blog
Reply With Quote
  #8  
June 7th, 2011, 03:27 PM
Aidan's Mommy
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Middle of nowhere, ON, Canada
Posts: 18,187
Send a message via MSN to TheMommyProject
^^I totally read "shaved" the first time I saw it too.

Kristen - I totally agree that all kids are different and not everything works for all. Hell, I find something that works and 2 weeks later it doesn't anymore. I underestimated how often I'd have to update by bag of tricks when raising a child.

It's ironic that I was defending the time out position when it all honestly, I really don't use them all that often since they are rarely required. But when we get into a phase of constant disobedience, they are a good tool for us and snap him back to his regular self pretty quickly and they have always been something I reserve for more "serious" offenses, like hitting or biting. So in the example of Nicole's Collin shoving Bailey, that I would put in the serious bucket and not something that I presonally would let off the hook without a proper apology. Sure it would involve all the things that you mentioned as well, explaining how what he did hurts others, why it's wrong, what's expected of him, etc...
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #9  
June 8th, 2011, 06:33 AM
Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 53,701
Send a message via AIM to MommaDucks Send a message via Yahoo to MommaDucks
Shaved??? That would have been really bad!



Yesterday ended up being a very exhausting day. Time out for Collin is two things, either sitting in a chair in the kitchen, or "take 5" in his room to cool down, he is able to play in there, do whatever, it's more to separate him and I, when I know whatever it is he (or Thomas....) has done that gets my blood boiling, basically it's more of a time out *for me*. I have the same wicked temper my father has and I do not want my children afraid of me, if that makes sense... I get scary when I'm angry, so yea, time out for me more than him..

Anyway, I told him he could come out when I put Bailey down for a nap. We talked and spent some one on one time together. I think he is feeling some jealousy towards Bailey right now.... Thomas pointed out to me last night, that Tom and I have been oohing and ahhing and praising Bailey a lot more lately, and not playing with each of the boys as frequently as we do when Tom is at work. Made me feel awfully guilty, but it was a reality check.

When Bailey got up from her nap, Collin attacked her with a hug and say "Me awwy me pushed you" I didn't ask him to, I gave up.

Of course later in the evening Collin punched Thomas and again, I was upset since we just discussed it earlier, but he did apologize and got super embarrassed, again with the hiding his face, closing his eyes...


My big thing is I understand kids hit in frustration, but it's not the typical sibling smacks here.. The way Collin shoved her, and the way he actually punched Thomas really shocked me. Collin is usually the sweetest little boy... I am reevaluating what we watch when they are around, and what Tom lets them watch and play. I just know he has to be getting it from some where.
__________________

Nicole: Tom's Wife [5.7.05]; Mommy of Thomas [9.6.05], Collin [1.17.08], & Bailey [10.2.09]
Reply With Quote
  #10  
June 8th, 2011, 06:51 AM
*Cyndee*'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,840
Send a message via ICQ to *Cyndee*
I do a little bit of everything depending on the situation. Madison is VERY spirited will even put her hands on her hips and scrunch up her face and tell me "I don't want to eat dinner, I want pudding!" after going back and forth (me calmly, she being bratatstic) 10 times she pulls that crap (this was yesterday), I just pick her up, put her in the corner and say "that's enough of that, that is not how you behave". She will yell no no and i just walk away and finish her dinner. She gives me a hug around the legs and I ask if she's ready to eat dinner that I've made, she says yes, end of story. After dinner she gets her (sugar free) pudding like normal.

You do have to draw the line somewhere I feel. Maddie finds comfort in hitting that wall (limits) and knowing it's there sometimes, since she doesn't act out at daycare and has to go with the flow of 4 other kids, she sometimes unloads when she gets home. I get that. But hey, we went to the park afterwards and I mix it up, so that we don't feel stuck in routine and oppressed. Sometimes talking works, sometimes she just needs to get it out. Sometimes after bending over backwards all day to make her happy and still being fought on every little thing, 5 mins in the corner is the only thing that changes the direction.

Madison is extremely compassionate and aware of others feelings. If I get upset she asks me if I'm mad and says sorry if she did something wrong and see's it upsets me. If I get frustrated or cry, she asks if I am sad or hurt she and will do or bring me something "to make you feel better". I have to be very careful not to take my emotions out on her because she will take it strongly to heart. One morning DH and I were having nookie and she came into our room, I told her gently to go back in her room and wait for me, that it was mommy and daddy time. We hurried and finished and she was in her bed crying because she thought I didn't want to be with her. I spent a long time explaining to her that sometimes mommy and daddy need some alone time to cuddle and it doesn't mean we don't love her or dont want to be with her.

I never have to force her to say sorry, all I have to do is act sad or hurt that she didn't do the right thing and she will, because she wants to make the people she loves and those around her happy.

I do think that you can both raise compassionate, emotionally intelligent, and strong willed children by using traditional discipline methods, but the key is to be flexible and read a situation for what it is and never react out of anger or autopilot.

I hope you were able to talk to Colin, Nicole, and that he understood why what he did was wrong and you can avoid stuff like this in the future. I think with 3 kids, it's going to happen though.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
June 8th, 2011, 07:59 AM
Aidan's Mommy
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Middle of nowhere, ON, Canada
Posts: 18,187
Send a message via MSN to TheMommyProject
I echo Cyndee's last point and suggest that you just try a little 1-on-1 time with Collin and see if you can't dig to the root of why he's acting out.

It's interesting that Thomas made the comment to you about what he perceived as extra attention that Bailey has been receiving. Kids are super honest and won't make a comment like that unless it's impacting them. So maybe Collin is feeling that too and just doesn't have the same maturity and tools that Thomas has to express it. If this is the case, then that little extra 1-on-1 with him to try to figure out what's going on will also contribute to the solution.

And of course you aren't doing it intentionally, but in families with multiple children, it is inevitable that at any given time at least one of the them is going to feel like they aren't the complete centre of attention, it's physically impossible!
__________________


Reply With Quote
Reply

Topic Tools Search this Topic
Search this Topic:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:05 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0