[MommysPocket]

Hey everyone. Posted this on FB but want to get everyone's thoughts.

Who has or is considering homeschooling? I am on the fence. I just don't think I have the confidence or patience to homeschooling. And I'm fine with our elementary schools its just our middle and high school that scares me.

Thought?

[Mel531]

Im not a fan of it. I think kids really need time away from their parents to discover who they are without the looming eye of their mother/father in the background...especially in the MS/HS yrs. For me, (and all of my children went to public school) education is a life long thing, that you receive in various ways, and a lot of it is self propelled..for this reason schools and what goes on in them dont concern me much...sure there are things kids are going to witness/hear that we may not approve of/agree with, but I think that is all part of learning, its not just about the curriculum it's about learning how to handle different situations, and different people on your own without mom and dad standing there watching or protecting.

[AmyLM]

we'll be homeschooling. I disagree with Mel a little bit. I think that kids shouldn't be away from the influence of their parents for that many hours a day. Also, in our state, I'm sure I can do a better job at educating my kids than the schools here. I think that homeschooled kids have higher self esteem (obviously not all). I'm not worried about "socialization" because they will be socialized with other homeschooled groups, extracurricular activities, etc.

[Sk8ermaiden]

We will homeschool. I know I can give my kids a million times the education the public schools here can, and likely the private schools too. Education is so important to us and we really want to instill in our kids a love of learning like we have. Obviously you don't need to homeschool to do this, as I was public schooled and he was private, but I think I can amplify it and really just foster it. Chris and I were in gifted programs in our schools and we were still bored. All the time. She will certainly have to do work she doesn't like or enjoy, but her elementary school experience will NOT be one she looks back on and says she was bored and never challenged. I am so excited.

I want my child to be able to learn in a variety of environments and from a variety of teachers, so we'll probably do co-op classes and we will definitely be involved in groups and field trips. Our local museums do classes too. We plan to do the standardized testing same as the schools and if she ever comes back at less than about the 95th percentile we'll probably feel like we're not doing a good enough job and put her in regular school. We also plan to stay a full school year ahead so that if we even screwed up an entire year due to whatever reason we could put her in school and she would be right on target.

We plan to do private school for high school for a myriad of reasons. We enjoyed our high school experiences. We had the teachers there that really inspired us and who were more specialized, knowledgeable and passionate about their subjects than the teachers in younger grades. We were on sports teams and in clubs. We want our kids to have homecoming and football games - spirit weeks. We also want them to have the opportunity to really learn to manage time well, juggle homework, clubs and socializing, deal with authority figures they may not like and who may not like them, do work that is stupid and boring, but required, and basically sit in a desk before they go off to college.

We have schools picked out, assuming our kids can get in. They are same-sex schools, which I would normally not prefer, but they are just the best schools in the city and my DH went to one of them and had hands down the best education of anyone I have ever met. It has served him well and still is...

That's the plan, but as all things with human participants, it is subject to change based on how things go...

[MommysPocket]

Thanks ladies. I'm very on the fence. I see good and bad in both but can't seem to find the one thing that tips the scales. I really just feel I personally won't do a good job and I think even going into it with that attitude is going to bring me down.

I think I'm leaning toward public school because I know I will be just as involved with their classes and extra activities as well as interviewing their teachers before the year begins.

A lot of our teachers are very single minded and refuse to accept that kids can make their own minds up and let them know when they are wrong, even if they are not. Too me that's not a good teacher. Kids should be able to make up their minds. And I also think that may be hard to do Homeschooling too.

Goodness. I really just don't know. I think even if we homeschooling they will still go to a public high school at least part time.

We don't really have any private schools near us except Christian schools which we have considered (seems how DH is a Pastor) but around here you. Have to be affiliated with their church, which we are not.

Decisions. Decisions.

[Mel531]

The constant "parental influence" is exactly why I would avoid it. I've always wanted my kids to be individuals with their own thoughts, opinions and beliefs, not clones of mine or DH's. Allowing them the freedom to explore those things free of my judgment/influence (or what they might perceive to be such) is hugely important to me. Having 3 adult kids now, and seeing the results, Im glad I went that route and wouldnt change it. They are incredibly different and unique with a slew of differing thoughts/opinions/beliefs...we have some awesome "round the table" discussions that are really interesting...they have enriched me and each other in many ways because of it, if they were just spitting back my own opinions to me, Id be quite bothered. Academically, they were all always excellent students with good grades...even well in to college, but I always considered that secondary to who they are as people, and how they carry themselves in the world and in their individual lives...and I still feel that way.

I also think a lot of times parents get wrapped up in the whole "status" of school and WHERE their kids go, what their grades are, or how high up the class list they climb academically. Many see it as some kind of reflection on themselves, and in turn that manifests in a lot of pressure on the kid...My MIL is one of those people, and that kind of thing makes me cringe. A formal education and having a high GPA doesnt necessarily equal intelligence, or well rounded-ness. Some of the smartest people I know have the least impressive educations on paper.

[Sk8ermaiden]

Being a bit of an objectivist by nature, I have no problems with helping my children to explore their own opinions on subjects, and kind of feel that's the entire point of education. (One of the units I am moooost looking forward to is learning about the world religions. Real, in depth studies of all the major ones.) The best teachers I ever had were the ones who taught the most controversial subjects and at the end of the term I still had no idea what their opinions were, and that's the kind of teacher I know I'll be with my kids. Actually, in that aspect, I feel homeschool will be better because I did not have that kind of freedom to have my own thoughts on subjects until college, with a few, rare exceptions (amazing teachers) in high school.

And we care a lot about where our kids go to school only because we want the best education for them. If our local public high school was the best option we would put them there in a heartbeat. To be quite honest I don't give much of a crap about GPA, only the educational opportunities available and that my kids are taking advantage of them. There will be no pressure on our kids to make straight A's or go to an ivy league (we went to a state school and think it's awesome). Just to love to learn. You can do that anywhere (I did! At a low income public school!) but I would have sawed off my right arm to have the learning opportunities available to me that my daughter will.

On their (very) lower middle class salary, my ILs sent my husband (and his brother only one year behind him) through 12 years of private school, including the best high school in the city. My mom and dad were teachers who spent most of their evenings and weekends enriching my education. Education is a very important family value for us and I have zeroooooo problems "i mposing" that on my kids.


Oh, plus there is the HUUUUUGE issue of what happens to girls, especially gifted girls, in schools (even homeschool of course, depending on the peer group). Which is that in first assessments of giftedness, girls and boys score fairly similarly, but by age 9, girls have been socialized into thinking being smart is not cool, and since IQ is fluid and if you don't use it you lose it, they DROP OFF the charts starting at age 9. My own sister was the only child at any grade level (she was 8 I think?) to make a perfect score on the standardized test one year. She was very smart. By junior high she dropped out of all advanced classes and everything was "too hard." Now to be brutally honest, you might call her a dim bulb. It is 100% totally and completely because of who her friends were. Not to even get into how girls typically outperform boys in math AND science, but almost universally by junior high describe themselves as being "bad at" those subjects and/or hating them. Parental influence can only do so much to counteract that crap. My sister and I have the exact same mom. We just fell in with different friends.

[Mel531]

Kellie, I think maybe you took what I said personally. I wasnt referring to you or anyone here when I said some parents look as where their kid goes or how they do as a status thing...its just an observation in my daily life dealing with parents, and relatives and such, not here. I've met a lot of parents over the years that are ridiculously overly involved in their kids school life...almost obsessively..where they dictate every move and dont allow the child any breathing room because they are attempting to bolster their own reputation, or self esteem. I tend to see it more in wealthier communities where the moms are always trying to "one up" each other via their children. I stated my MIL as an example. DH's 11 yr old brother is a nervous wreck of a kid, because he is involved in SO much and is pushed to be the best, and harped on constantly about his grades and being at the top of his class. She actually has cancelled her Christmas trip to see us, because little brother has some kind of exams right before break, and she wants him to have plenty of time to study. uhm, he's 11. Im sure he'd much rather spend a few days here playing with his nephew....but mom has a rep to maintain, so he cant.

[AmyLM]

I have no desire to smother my kids. (Not taking what you said personally, Mel) I just want to give them so much more than I had available to me. Yes, I think that kids shouldn't be away from the influence of their parents for long periods of time but that doesn't mean they won't have breathing room. I want them to explore and learn, have ideas of their own and share them with me, too. I don't want xerox copies of myself and I don't want to push, push, push, either. I don't believe in pushing kids into achieving every single thing I can think of. I just want to make sure they get the education they deserve. And, I KNOW that I can do better than the schools here.

[Sk8ermaiden]

Not sure how I took anything personally. (Dude seriously, I was in debate for 8 years. You'd have to call me nasty names or insult my mother to get my hackles up, and you would know it if you did.) I did post about the "best" schools and your next post was about parents getting wrapped up in image and status. I wanted to give a different perspective on why a family might care about the "best" schools. You said what goes on in schools doesn't concern you much and I am just 100% the opposite - representing a different opinion on the thread. DH and I feel like what goes on in schools is probably THE most important thing happening in the country today, so picking the right one is a huge deal (to us).

And as for what happens to girls in school (and honestly, what happens to boys, since schools inherently set boys up for behavior problems and then punish them for them), it is just something I am crazy passionate about - one of my soapbox things. (Did I mention I grew up in a family where education was probably the most important family value after "Be a good person"?)

And I just want to make clear for anyone who might be lurking that I totally do not villanize public schools. All these things I think are wrong are societal issues and present everywhere - public, private, home. I would not hesitate for second to pop E in public school if I thought it was what was best for her OR our family and have NEVER judged anyone's schooling choices. Ever. I know often crazy, outspoken passion can come off as preaching? or judgment? Especially to people not used to debate. And it most definitely is not. I just felt the need to say that, because coming from a debate background I always took it for granted, but in the PR I have noticed that anytime anyone is passionate about a choice when someone else didn't make the same choice, somehow the first person is a meanie who is judging them. It is not about you. It is about me, me, me, me, me. And Elizabeth. /end disclaimer

[MaineBean]

I have never considered homeschooling- its just too much pressure for me to be responsible for all of that well rounded learning, not to mention I'm not a SAHM and being my kids' teacher doesn't really pay our mortgage. But really, even if I could be a SAHM, I'd still send my child to formal school.

I like what I like (art, music, dance, math, logic) and what I don't like (most science, history, geography, reading boring literature, sports) I would be inclined to just avoid, which of course is a huge disservice to my child. I suppose if I were actually taking on the task of homeschooling, I would suck it up and provide opportunities to learn that stuff, but I dont' know that I could withhold my underlying likes and dislikes. I'd rather leave it to the people who know all that stuff in and out.

That being said, I do think that the parent's involvement at all levels is critical, and that is something I am 110% ready to be active in. I think I've heard some sort of stats that talk about the schooling isn't that influential in a child's education, but rather parent involvement really can accelerate or decelerate learning. (Disclosure: I have NO facts to back that up.) I plan to be involved (but not helicopter) in homework and what kiddos are learning, provide additional opportunities for learning (trips to museums etc, involving them in house things like cooking for math & life skills or home repair to show engineering & results of hard work, fostering interests with paying for clubs/camps), and be an active partner with the teachers.

Like Kellie said though, it's not set in stone and we'll see what happens when we get there! If the public schools are just missing their mark and private school isn't in the cards for whatever reason, I wouldn't rule homeschooling out.

[Sk8ermaiden]

You are totally right. Parental involvement is the #1 factor in how well kids will do in school, a bajillion times more important than where they are schooled.

[Mel531]

I agree totally on parental involvement...but there is involvement...which to me is...encouraging, exposing, offering a multitude of experiences, allowing free thought and exploration, and then there is controlling, and demanding, with a host of certain self serving expectations. I think sometimes the line between the two is blurred and thats where I have a problem. I've known a few moms that would definitely describe themselves as the first, but really they are the second...and their kids are stressed and worried all the time.

[Sk8ermaiden]

There have been some good articles recently about helicoptoring and how bad it is. I wish I could remember where I read them.

[~Andrea~]

^^ We just did a unit in my comm class on helicopter parents. Very interesting.

We will not be "homeschooling" persay. Lily will be going to a private Lutheran school though 8th grade and then we will allow her to chose to continue on with public or private high school. We are currently done some preschool at home and next fall she will be attending school 2 days per week, 2 hours a day.

I wish I could homeschool however. I have done a lot of research on it and I think it would be an amazing fit for our family. The resources for homeschooled families in my area are very limited though, along with the fact that I know I will have to return to work at some point helped us decide to send our kids to private school and then supplement their education at home. We are going to have week long or month long projects, such as having a Italian month. We would learn different things about the country, study some of the language, geography, customs, culture, etc. I think it would be a lot of fun for all of us!

[AndreaRenee]

homeschooling sounds really nice actually... I'm frightened of the impact the outside world will have on Adam while he's gone from me 8 hours a day. However... I don't think I could do it, I would like to go back to work once the kids are in school at least part time for my own sanity AND I believe, like Mel, they need the socialization to figure stuff out themselves. I also happen to live in an area where the education is top notch. I commend any mama who homeschools.

[New_England_Girl]

There have been great points made on both sides here, so anything I have to add will just be redundant...which seems so often the case with me

That being said, we are homeschoolers all the way. We are currently doing kindergarten with Cassidy (she's definitely in the gifted spectrum), and we're both having a great time with it. My daughter amazes me every day and watching her learn is almost like a drug However, I have no intention of making our curriculum all about my expectations for her. I thought, because she was only 4 when we began, that we might take two years to do kindergarten, but she is just flying through it so I'm following her lead. She can read 3-letter words and loves math (who would have guessed?) No helicoptering required

For next year (1st grade) we are planning to do:
Phonics
Language Arts
Math
Spelling
Science
Social Studies
Music
Art

And if anything really strikes her fancy we'll take some time exploring it.

What I love about homeschooling is the flexibility it offers. Not flexibility as in not having to do it every day, because obviously you need to be committed and diligent about it, but the flexibility to take time on something if you need to or skip something altogether (you know, like that book report on a book that is blatantly inappropriate...we'll just skip to another book). I was homeschooled as was DH, and for us it fits great.

But...if things change, I know my kids would be fine in public school. I think that teachers are extremely talented and hard-working people who sincerely care about kids' educations, and I respect that, vocally. But I also think that the system is badly flawed and in many cases the teachers' hands are tied.

[MommysPocket]

I think we have decided to homeschool for preschool and do public school for kindergarten and on. The preschools around her are pricey, I used to work for them lol, but I think she would do fine staying home and it will give us a chance to test the waters on homeschooling.

I think she will be fine in elementary and if things continue to get worse with the MS and HS we won't hesitate to find a different school or homeschool. I'm just going to take it year by year I think. I hate not knowing how it will go but I suppose that's how it goes?

Thanks everyone! It's nice to know I have a group of wonderful ladies to go to and have a great discussion without harshness. Seems like no one can have an opinion these days lol. But you ladies are awesome!

[MaineBean]

Originally Posted by New_England_Girl

I think that teachers are extremely talented and hard-working people who sincerely care about kids' educations, and I respect that, vocally. But I also think that the system is badly flawed and in many cases the teachers' hands are tied.

This is my biggest fear. I'm sure there are dud teachers out there- someone's gotta be at the bottom of their class but still graduate!- but most teachers I'm sure are perfectly good, especially when coupled with attentive parents. The system seems to really make it hard for teachers to keep to the core of their job, which is to teach. With administration, nutty parents, insane (and I feel often useless) standardized testing, and the rest, there is so much more teachers need to focus their energy on, not to mention being underpaid and overwhelmed with so many kids in classrooms.

If I were more confident in my ability to stick to homeschooling (aka not slack because I'm not in the mood to teach that day) and not improperly paint subjects based on my biases, the education system would certainly be my number 1 reason to opt out of public (or even private) school and keep it at home. It's a real shame and I don't have any ideas to offer to the "powers that be" on how to fix it.

[Mel531]

I think the public schools are definitely flawed, and although I have no experience with private schools, Im guessing they are as well. It is impossible to cater to each individual childs needs, even with extra programs. My oldest son was in the TAG program all throughout school, and it was a joke as far as he was concerned. This is why I dont put a whole lot of emphasis or concern in to it...what they dont receive in school is easily picked up elsewhere, with the parents, or encouraged on their own. Our public schools are fair at best here in Southern OH...my kids went to the best one there is, and it still is lacking, but it really didnt pose a problem, they learned a myriad of things at home, or from other people/places/experiences. Education is everywhere if you are interested in learning..and we were all (myself included) constantly looking to further our knowledge base...a lot of which never would have surfaced in a classroom. That being said...I think the dynamic of the school setting, the social aspects, the group activities (things like band, theater, and sports) are very important and help kids a ton in developing their unique sense of who they are....I just dont think that is something that would manifest the same way if they were always under the eye/influence of the parent...especially in the MS/HS yrs.