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So sad!


Forum: 2010 Playroom

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  #1  
March 29th, 2011, 10:36 PM
DondraB's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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French vegans in dock over baby's death


Not sure if we have any Vegans on our board. If so, I don't mean to start any debate on any of this. My DH sent me this earlier....so sad!!!
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  #2  
March 29th, 2011, 10:52 PM
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Oh wow that is sad. You would have thought that they would have got help earlier....
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  #3  
March 30th, 2011, 04:57 AM
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That is really sad. I only quickly read the article so forgive me if I misunderstood, but it sounds like it's not that the baby was underfed or unloved, but that because the Mum was vegan, there wasn't enough of the right nutrients passing through to the baby, and they hadn't started solids yet so baby wasn't getting key nutrients from another avenue either. I feel sad for them all.
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  #4  
March 30th, 2011, 05:03 AM
Brannyt's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I think that's terribly sad, but I also feel bad for the parents. The mother might not have known she had a vitamin deficiency that was hurting her daughter.

But, it could go the other way too. It seems as though, at only 12 pounds, the baby was obviously not thriving and should have been seen by a doc earlier (if her regular doc hadn't already made a diagnosis).

Either way, it's so sad
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  #5  
March 30th, 2011, 05:34 AM
Racine's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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This is incredibly sad; and I think it's absolutely horrible that they are being charged with their child's death. Should they have noticed that their baby wasn't looking as healthy or robust as they should have? Probably. Does that mean they should go to prison? No. Chances are they loved their baby and losing their him/her is more than likely the worst consequence possible; why should they go to prison, as well?

I will probably end up being vegan or at least vegetarian someday; but I believe young children have different needs and it's important not to mess around with dietary restrictions where they're concerned. I ate things while pregnant and nursing that I never would just on my own, knowing it was vital for a fetus and infant's needs.
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  #6  
March 30th, 2011, 08:25 AM
Bosley's Avatar Hillary
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I don't think we can really comment on whether they should be charged with anything/go to prison without knowing more facts of their circumstances, what symptoms or signs precluded this, if the child was being seen regularly by a doctor, etc. I'm not saying there were symptoms or that the child didn't get proper healthcare, just saying we don't really know either way from this article.

I do think it terribly, terribly sad :-( I can't imagine being in their position - especially the mother. I'm sure she felt she was doing right by her baby by giving her mother's milk and probably didn't even know that her vegan status could be a problem. How awful. The baby's low weight does make me ask why no one questioned if she was thriving properly though.

I remember years ago when I lived in England there was a similar case where the parents were very, very poor. I can't remember what it was they primarily fed their baby - grown-up oatmeal or grown-up mashed potatoes or something like that. They couldn't afford formula and so they fed the baby something they thought was easy to digest, couldn't choke on, etc. and it turns out whatever it was they gave the baby every day was incredibly high in sodium or some other "nutrient" the baby couldn't handle and eventually it overwhelmed the baby's system and he/she died. So sad :-(
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  #7  
March 30th, 2011, 12:17 PM
palmetto_moon's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I have mixed feelings. Like Hillary said, its totally speculative without having more information at hand. But from the article it sounded like it was an issue of vitimin deficiency and not starvation??? I don't think THAT sounds criminal to me.
Weighing 12 pounds at 11 months old does seem small but we don't know what she started at or how she progressed up that. For example if she was born at 5 pounds and has made slow but steady gains since then, well that's a far cry from if she was born at 8 pounds and weighed 10 pounds by two months old and now still only wieghs 11.

As far as them being charged with anything criminally, I think it depends on other factors. There is such thing as as medical negligence. And legally if they SHOULD have noticed that their baby was not gaining and was deteriorating and didn't get her help then they could be criminally responsible.
More things we don't know- did they take her to a doctor or nurse and were told that the baby was doing poorly and still did nothing to help her? Had they been to checkups where the doc said the baby was doing fine? All of this matters to me.
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  #8  
March 30th, 2011, 02:28 PM
QueenCrafty's Avatar Courtney
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I agree we are definitely missing quite a bit of information on the situation. It is sad that a baby died, but prison sounds incredibly harsh.
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  #9  
March 30th, 2011, 03:41 PM
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Im not gonna comment on the charges, because im not sure of all of the information regarding the case. I would think that they saw that the baby was not thriving as should be and should have wanted to supplement with something, at least. I think its sad. I understand them wanting to do the best for their child but wonder why and how they could have NOT thought something was wrong with a baby weighing 12lbs at 11 months!! Thats beyond me.
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  #10  
March 31st, 2011, 05:05 AM
palmetto_moon's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I will say Niema, that I did not notice right away that Mia was small. It was sort of something that dawned on me over time rather than a shocking or startling realization. I noticed that she wasn't seeming full or satisfied and that my breasts had stopped feeling full but noticing that she was really small was secondary. Maybe when you live with the child and see them day in and day out, you are slower to notice? I don't know but 12 pounds does seem very small for an 11 month old. Although at the same time I would think that breatmilk COULD indeed sustain life for a baby up till about a year. Again, if its a vitimin issue, perhaps the parents had no idea....how sad for everyone involved...
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  #11  
March 31st, 2011, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amf4976 View Post
I will say Niema, that I did not notice right away that Mia was small. It was sort of something that dawned on me over time rather than a shocking or startling realization. I noticed that she wasn't seeming full or satisfied and that my breasts had stopped feeling full but noticing that she was really small was secondary. Maybe when you live with the child and see them day in and day out, you are slower to notice? I don't know but 12 pounds does seem very small for an 11 month old. Although at the same time I would think that breatmilk COULD indeed sustain life for a baby up till about a year. Again, if its a vitimin issue, perhaps the parents had no idea....how sad for everyone involved...
Thats understandable, Angela. I remember when you were dealing with low milk supply with Mia, and I know how hard it was on you when you found out that she wasn't getting enough. Its just so hard for me to imagine an 11 month old being 12 lbs. Then again, we dont know the whole story. Its still so sad though.
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  #12  
March 31st, 2011, 07:38 PM
krissy1989's Avatar is loving her two boys!
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Quote:
I don't think we can really comment on whether they should be charged with anything/go to prison without knowing more facts of their circumstances, what symptoms or signs precluded this, if the child was being seen regularly by a doctor, etc. I'm not saying there were symptoms or that the child didn't get proper healthcare, just saying we don't really know either way from this article.

I do think it terribly, terribly sad :-( I can't imagine being in their position - especially the mother. I'm sure she felt she was doing right by her baby by giving her mother's milk and probably didn't even know that her vegan status could be a problem. How awful. The baby's low weight does make me ask why no one questioned if she was thriving properly though.
Ditto this. It's just so heartbreaking. I won't judge the parents until I know whether or not they had been to a doctor beforehand and were told that things needed to change---only to not change anything. If THAT were the case, then I can understand being criminally charged. But if they were at the baby's well-child checkup at 9 months and told that everything was fine, then they never got to make it to the next appt. Maybe no one knew that anything was wrong. So, so sad.
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