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Letting newborn around uvaccinated child


Forum: August 2013 Playroom

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  #1  
May 3rd, 2013, 09:06 AM
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*I am NOT here to debate vaccinations. I just need opinions/info on the situation stated.*

I am Pro-vax, 100%, on time, would only delay due to illness. I just learned last night that my sis does not vax her child (he's only 8mos, and it's just not a convo we have ever had). She has been telling me that she (plus hubby and baby, of course) is planning to come down for Patti's birth, and I'm just wondering if it is safe/wise/okay to allow her un-vax'd will-be 1yr old around my brand new baby. I've been researching a bit online, but some of the info is a bit wishy washy. So what would you do? Anybody have any good links to info? I also plan on talking to the pediatrician when we go see her in a couple weeks, but I want to do as much research as possible.

Just a little more background info in case it's needed: my kids are 9 and 7 and fully vax'd. Her son was born in August at 36 weeks, and spent 4 or 5 days in the NICU. No vax's. He does not go to any sort of daycare or anything. He's always with my sis or his daddy. Now, a few days before she plans on coming they will be having his 1st b'day party where he will be around her in-laws and their small children, and I have no idea about their daycare/school or vax status.

What do you all think?

ETA: I obviously want to avoid fighting with my sis or hurting her feelings, but the health and safety of my newborn is even more important.
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  #2  
May 3rd, 2013, 09:47 AM
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Personally, I don't see anything wrong with having a baby around an unvaccinated child. Of course if you know he's sick I would avoid it, but I do that anyway. Vaccines aren't very effectve for infants anyway (thus the reason they need so many repeats vs how many they need if given at an older age). I don't want to get too into it so it doesn't start a debate or anything. We do delayed vax.

Just like with anyone around a newborn, make sure they wash their hands, and stay away if they are even a little sick.
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  #3  
May 3rd, 2013, 09:49 AM
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Unless your sisters child is obviously sick, I don't see any issue with having him around the baby.
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  #4  
May 3rd, 2013, 10:03 AM
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Ditto Kelllilee.

Here's a story. My first 2 kids were fully vaccinated for some time (my oldest til he was 3, my daughter until she was 15 months). SO they were both FULLY vaccinated with DtaP when we gave birth to my youngest. My husband and I were ALSO fully vaccinated for this. Yet my youngest was about a month old, my husband, my older two kids, and myself all got whooping cough/pertussis. My youngest wasn't even old enough for the first vaccine against it, not that we planned on vaxxing him anyway. We were living in a SMALL condo (we had to move a few months later because it was too small for 2 adults and 3 children to live in). Anyway, my youngest did NOT get whooping cough.

Recap:
2 adults and 2 children fully vaccinated against pertussis got pertussis.
1 newborn, surrounded by these 4 sick people for 2-2.5 months, who was NOT vaccinated against pertussis did NOT get pertussis.

So no, I wouldn't worry about having my newborn around an unvaccinated child, not any more than I would worry about having my unvaxxed child around a vaccinated one nor having my newborn around a vaccinated child. BUT I do still think it's good to keep newborns not around sick kids. But a vaccinated child can carry (and even contract) a sickness just as easy as a vaccinated child. Or in your case, where you believe vaccines work, a vaccinated child can still carry that sickness the same as an unvaccinated child can.

I think it's great if you want to do as much research as possible, especially if that means TRULY doing as much research as possible and not just disregarding the stuff that challenges your views and clinging to the stuff that makes you feel okay about vaccinating. And I hope your child never has a severe vaccine reaction.

That said, I wouldn't worry about fighting with your sis or hurting her feelings. From the sounds of it, she's very educated and doing what is best for her child, and if I were her and my sister didn't "Get it" I would just chalk it up to being my sister's loss, not be offended. Just as you are doing what you believe is best for your newborn, so has she, so I'm sure she would be able to understand you are making choices based on what you believe is best, because she has done the exact same thing. so if in the end you don't feel comfortable, don't do it.

FWIW, when I was exactly like you, fully vaccinating my child 100% on schedule and thinking no harm could come of it, I thought my closest friend was TOTALLY moronic for not vaccinating her son. (Karma is interesting, I guess). BUT I still let my son hang out with her son, even when they were newborns. In retrospect, speaking of myself personally, I wish I'd spent less time worrying about offending her with my choices or thinking her choices were wrong and spent more time trying to understand why she made the choices she did. Maybe if she had, my son wouldn't have become vaccine damaged for life

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  #5  
May 3rd, 2013, 10:21 AM
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I'm in the minority here, probably, but I wouldn't. BUT, I also have major anxiety issues and tend to be a worrywart about that kind of thing, LOL.
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  #6  
May 3rd, 2013, 10:26 AM
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Unless he's sick there's no reason to be worried. What you have to watch is having the newborn around recently vaxed kids. Some vaccines shed, and that could get the baby sick, rare though. And basically if you thought you had to keep baby away from a child that is not vaxed, you'd have to also keep baby away from most adults, as vaccines wear off and most adults don't get boosters so they are essiantially unvaxed too.
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  #7  
May 3rd, 2013, 10:32 AM
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Like I said, I'm not here to debate. I never said I thought my sister's choice was moronic. In fact, I never stated my opinion about people who don't vax because **I am not here to debate** - like I said. I just wasn't sure, have no experience with the situation, and want to educate myself. I have done full research on vax's and choose to get them. That's my choice. I am not looking to research vaccines themselves any further, I have done that research. If anybody has any links that refer to the situation I am stating, I AM looking to educate myself further on that. Thanks for your responses.
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  #8  
May 3rd, 2013, 10:47 AM
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I wasn't saying you said her choice was moronic. I said that *I* thought that about *my* friend (and it wasn't right of me to think that, but I guess I learned the hard way!)

FWIW, I know a lot of people who say they won't let their kids around unvaxxed kids ever (I know you are only talking about as a newborn though), but they send their kids to public school...so their kids ARE around unvaxxed kids. Really the only way to prevent keeping your child from being around unvaxxed kids (and adults) is for them to never leave the house until they have all their vaccines

Good luck with whatever you decide. I'm sure you will make the right decision for your family and I sincerely hope it all works out for you and your precious little one
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  #9  
May 3rd, 2013, 10:59 AM
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Thanks. I'm actually feeling a bit better about it and that maybe I am being a bit paranoid (can you really blame me?), but I'm going to continue to do some reading and still talk to the pediatrician.

Oh, and I looked into it, and apparently the only booster DH and I would need is the DTaP. We are going to get that taken care of before the baby's arrival (wish I had known about that when my boys were babies. Oops.)
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  #10  
May 3rd, 2013, 11:58 AM
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Definitely a "to each his own" situation here...


I personally am pro-vaccine (on time), and I would not allow my unvaccinated newborn near an unvaccinated child. No symptoms at that moment doesn't mean not carrying something or not contagious. I've seen enough stories about whooping cough when I worked in Peds to be wary of even non-symptomatic children (and adults). Even a slight cough could be something worse. Not worth the risk to me personally
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  #11  
May 3rd, 2013, 12:05 PM
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Just keep in mind, recently vaccinated children carry the disease germ and are able to spread it to other children. Many so-called epidemics are initiated and spread in this manner. this is why you often see those outbreaks in vaccinated children. If you look at the states, most kids who catch the measles (for example) are those who are vaccinated against it. So for those who are worried, I say by all means don't bring your kid around unvaccinated children if it worries you, but also be careful around 1) adults 2) school-aged children and 3) children who have recently been vaccinated. Good luck I personally, because of our own experience, wouldn't go anywhere near anyone I know who has recently gotten DTAP since in our experience only those vaxxed against dtap are the ones to catch it.

In 1984, the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMRW) of the CDC reported a late 1983 early 1984 Illinois high school/junior high measles outbreak. The total student population was around 400, and ALL of them (100%) had complied with Illinois State Law requiring the complete MMR schedule.

In 1987, Pub Med Central reported another public school measles outbreak among a 98% MMR vaccinated population. This happened in another high school, this one in Massachusetts early in 1984. Another population with over 90% vaccinated again.

I think it's worth looking at the vaccine schedules of other countries and comparing their rates of outbreaks, autoimmune disorders, and cognitive/neurological disorders as well and then seeing what conclusions you draw for yourself from that.

Also keep in mind that your child will probably be exposed to unvaccinated kids without you even knowing it! Most don't walk around wearing signs that say "My mom didn't inject me with those dangerous chemicals you call vaccines" or "HIGH ALERT: I'm not vaccinated so I must be a mega super risk to your child" or any other equally ridiculous thing that would tip you off. So everywhere you go, there may lurk some disease-ridden unvaxxed kid (I say that tongue-in-cheek, obviously lol). But point is, you wouldn't know it. You know about your sister's kid, but you don't know about the kid who is in the pediatrician's office with you or in the child who had a well visit in the same room you are walking into or anywhere else.

So with that in mind, here are some places your child might encounter an unvaccinated human being (while I may personally not agree that there is "need" to keep a child away from unvaccinated children/people, I'll certainly support a mama who feels there is a need, hence the below list)
the hospital they are born in
pediatrician's office
grocery store
public schools
daycare
the mall or any other retail store
restaurants
anywhere there are adults (as on 2013, 85-90% of adults in America are NOT up to date on their vaccines, and that number is improved from previous years when it was more like 90-95% NOT being up to date)

any activity program (everyone in my daughter's gym knows she is not vaccinated and no one is worried, and people bring their newborns in there all the time. BUT I'd say 95% of people who go there are upper class and upper-middle class, with college educations, and that "profile" group of people is said to be most likely not to vaccinate, delay vaccinations, or to be okay with others not vaccinating)*stats below*

*A study in the journal The American Journal of Public Health, which surveyed 11,860 families, found that mothers who had not finished high school were 16% more likely to have completed the whole vaccination schedule for their children.
*Lower education levels and socioecomonic status was associated with higher completion rates for vaccination.
*The education level of parents has an influence on the frequency with which their children eat foods linked to obesity and if they will be vaccinated. The children of parents with low and medium levels of education eat fewer vegetables and fruit and more processed food products including genetically modified foods. They are also 70 percent more likely to receive vaccinations.

Hope that helps decide the "safe zones" for your newborns and who you want in contact with them when they are little, in the event you plan to keep your child away from unvaccinated children during certain stages (or all stages) of their life
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Last edited by alittlelost; May 3rd, 2013 at 06:15 PM.
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  #12  
May 3rd, 2013, 03:09 PM
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I keep my newborn away from other people's children in general. Vaxed or not. After baby is out of brand new baby status, it's not something I worry about. I do not allow people who are sick or might be getting sick around my infants as a rule though. Those are my choices for my family.
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  #13  
May 3rd, 2013, 05:54 PM
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I am in the minority here, and have had issues in playgroups due to this, but I'm not comfortable at all letting a newborn or a child under school age play with un-vaxed kids. Just a personal preference.
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  #14  
May 3rd, 2013, 08:38 PM
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honestly i never really worried about this topic interesting read. once i healed from my c section about a month after son was born i took him out and about. granted he is vaccinated, well i did decline mmr chicken pox and the stupid flu shot that i really dont understand. anyways i was just to excited to show him off lol. he never really got sick and the only time he has gotten sick are low grade fevers from being vaccinated or teething and a fever from and ear infection, i wasn't the germ conscience kind of mom. i could understand your concern though, if your sisters child isnt sick i wouldnt worry to much about it but it's good that your going to check with the pediatrician to be sure im curious what he says about that kup
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  #15  
May 3rd, 2013, 08:42 PM
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Haven't read other responses but no I wouldn't let a sick or unvaccinated child around a newborn baby. Pertussis in particular can be a killer.
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  #16  
May 3rd, 2013, 09:13 PM
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Thanks for all the responses. You've all given me a lot to think about. I will definitely let you know what the ped says after I see her in a couple weeks.
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  #17  
May 3rd, 2013, 09:31 PM
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oh also if you do decide that it is safer for your sister's daughter to not be there something that lost wrote you could think about telling her to let her down easy. 1) just that you want to keep your newborn safe and whatever your pedi may tell you but 2) you want to keep her child safe since your baby will be vaccinated and she isnt, that he will carry the germ and is able to spread it to her child so all in all you are thinking about both of your childrens safety.
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  #18  
May 4th, 2013, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kearsty20 View Post
oh also if you do decide that it is safer for your sister's daughter to not be there something that lost wrote you could think about telling her to let her down easy. 1) just that you want to keep your newborn safe and whatever your pedi may tell you but 2) you want to keep her child safe since your baby will be vaccinated and she isnt, that he will carry the germ and is able to spread it to her child so all in all you are thinking about both of your childrens safety.
Such a great point While I don't go out of my way to avoid people based on their vaccination status, I do expect sick people to be responsible and not come around my child just as I keep my children away from people when my kids are sick. But there is also being responsible about vaccinating and that means not bringing recently vaccinated children around other children, whether those other children are vaccinated or not, because of vaccine shedding, so I think her sister would really appreciate that
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  #19  
May 4th, 2013, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kearsty20 View Post
oh also if you do decide that it is safer for your sister's daughter to not be there something that lost wrote you could think about telling her to let her down easy. 1) just that you want to keep your newborn safe and whatever your pedi may tell you but 2) you want to keep her child safe since your baby will be vaccinated and she isnt, that he will carry the germ and is able to spread it to her child so all in all you are thinking about both of your childrens safety.

It is a good idea, but wouldn't really apply to this situation. She would only be here for maybe a week right around the time of birth, and baby won't get her first vax until 2mos.

Also, just to clarify, I was not "looking to avoid unvax'd children". I simply had never been in such a situation (having a young child around my brand new baby - vax'd or unvax'd), and I wanted to cover all my bases and do my research.
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  #20  
May 4th, 2013, 09:10 AM
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Makes sense!

I provided the information in case your research led you to feel that what is best for your baby is to keep your baby away from un-altered/natural children (because I'm sure if you end up worried about your sister's kid you would be concerned about other natural children, too, and possibly also other children in general and definitely adults).

IF you decide that is best for your family, then at least now you can be prepared for how to move forward

If it were me and I was concerned about my child being around natural children or recently vaccinated children, I would be seeing if my pediatrician would do home visits--seems like the only logical way to avoid the unwanted contact, IF I decided it was something I wanted to avoid.

If you decide you aren't worried about it, then no big deal. That's fine too. You just have to do what is right for your family.
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