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"Natural Childbirth" just became snobbish to me.


Forum: October 2013 Playroom

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  #21  
July 3rd, 2013, 03:54 PM
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Unfortunately, I think there are a certain group of people in every situation with a "holier than thou" attitude. I worked in the lactation/breastfeeding field for quite a while and ran into some people like this. Heaven forbid you gave your child one drop of formula, they would be so quick to judge and accuse you of giving your baby unnatural poison (definitely not what formula is lol!!). Some would even say that giving a pacifier or feeding breastmilk in a bottle was not considered exclusively breastfeeding. I am a big supporter of breastfeeding, but I understand that it is not for everyone and I don't judge moms either way. When it comes down to it, whatever works best for mom and baby is the best way even if it doesn't fit into other people's standards, at least that is how I look at it.
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  #22  
July 3rd, 2013, 04:01 PM
soul_donut's Avatar Melissa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie1122 View Post
Unfortunately, I think there are a certain group of people in every situation with a "holier than thou" attitude. I worked in the lactation/breastfeeding field for quite a while and ran into some people like this. Heaven forbid you gave your child one drop of formula, they would be so quick to judge and accuse you of giving your baby unnatural poison (definitely not what formula is lol!!). Some would even say that giving a pacifier or feeding breastmilk in a bottle was not considered exclusively breastfeeding. I am a big supporter of breastfeeding, but I understand that it is not for everyone and I don't judge moms either way. When it comes down to it, whatever works best for mom and baby is the best way even if it doesn't fit into other people's standards, at least that is how I look at it.
Lol, what dummies. A pacifier makes breastfeeding invalid? How can you take anything seriously that they say. They are not even close to the same, except both a breast and a pacifier go in a baby's mouth. So do blocks, teething rings, dust bunnies, bibs, basically anything within hands reach. Oh no! Breastfeeding CANCELLED.
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  #23  
July 3rd, 2013, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by soul_donut View Post
Lol, what dummies. A pacifier makes breastfeeding invalid? How can you take anything seriously that they say. They are not even close to the same, except both a breast and a pacifier go in a baby's mouth. So do blocks, teething rings, dust bunnies, bibs, basically anything within hands reach. Oh no! Breastfeeding CANCELLED.
Yes, it was absolutely ridiculous! I talked to so many moms that gave up on breastfeeding because someone like that made them feel bad for their decisions to use a pacifier or bottle or whatever. So sad!
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  #24  
July 3rd, 2013, 04:42 PM
anothermother's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Eh, they can all go jump off a bridge




ok just kidding... but really....


For me, the *only* reason I considered a natural birth with my first was because I was surrounded by women that only had those types of births. My mom had 6 c-sections, but she was 1400 miles away. Everyone I was in the same town with was always raving how it was the ONLY way to go. Regardless that deep down I thought they were all crazy. When it came time, my body went into hyper mode and couldn't focus at all so I got the epi and it was *amazing*. Never regretted it.

The second time, I went right in with the idea that I was gonna get the epi, but it was mostly because I had a 2nd degree tear the first time and I couldn't stand the idea of stitching up no meds. I ended up not tearing at all.

With my 17 week induction I only got stadol and I held that off as long as possible. They recommended I get the epi the whole time. The only reason I felt I needed the stadol was because even though it felt contraction-like, there was no rest between them. So while it wasn't awful pain, just the non-stop pain sent me over the edge. My reason for not getting the epi was because I didn't want to be stuck at a hospital without my baby any longer than I had too... so the physical pain seemed soooo minor compared to the emotional pain of sitting there with empty arms listening to other babies down the hall.

This time.... I'm kinda hoping for a natural. I'm totally a "why put yourself through the pain when their is relief" type of person, but my main reason is because I really want to be up and around as soon as possible rather than waiting for the epi to wear off. And it's just something different. And I really want to see what this water birth stuff is all about. Of course it will all depend on where exactly we will be by the time Jude is here... but right now my birth plan is as follows:

Healthy momma and baby.


And really that's all that matters.


Giving birth, no matter what way, is a super power and no one should make you feel like it's anything less. You rock girl!
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Last edited by anothermother; July 29th, 2013 at 10:13 AM. Reason: because people are ridiculous and twisted my words.
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  #25  
July 3rd, 2013, 06:13 PM
Laurenj915's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I think people are judgy about everything! Especially pregnancy and motherhood. I could write a book and my kid is only 2!

Living together before you got married?
Had IVF?
Got pregnant out of wedlock?
Drank coffee while you were pregnant?
Used a midwife, dr, doula?
Homebirth, hospital?
Induced?
Breastfed for less than 3 months or more than a year?
Let your kid have a paci?
Co slept?
Quit your job to stay at home? Went back to work?
Sent your kid to daycare?
Your kids stay home with you and don't socialize with their peers?
Cloth diaper?
Didn't potty train until 3?
Let your kid eat some non organic carrots?
What about the general attitude that you are somehow a superior human being if you only gain 20 pounds while pregnant, barely show, don't need maternity pants, walk out of the hospital in your regular jeans.

It could all make you crazy.
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  #26  
July 3rd, 2013, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Rosiegirl7 View Post

But now I'm scared....is it really that painful?!? Ahhhhhh first timer here. And trust me I will ask for meds if needed!! No judgement.

I was induced due to low amniotic fluid. They say Pitocin makes contractions stronger, but I had nothing to compare it to. They caused discomfort and got stronger throughout the day. They hurt, but they were manageable. If that is all childbirth was then I think most women would go natural. About 10 hours in they were painful enough where I couldn't talk through them. Still, if that's all it was, I'd go natural. But I never planned on going natural, but had read horror stories about the epidural wearing off because the woman got it too early. At the point I couldn't talk through them, I decided to get it because why be in pain if I didn't need to be? Although weird it worked like a charm. Until 5 hours later when my b**** midwife snuck and turned it off so I could push. I don't sugar coat it for first time mamas. There's no sense in it. I can give you every painful detail, but until you experience it, there is no explaining it, no preparation. I will also say, with the exception of one, I feel like every mom who tells me it wasn't that bad is lying through their teeth. Just like a lot of the natural ones I know only do it to brag! Child birth is pure torture. The most painful thing I've ever experienced. That being said, if it wasn't 100% worth it and the greatest thing we've ever done, nobody would ever have a second child. I'm ready to do it again. See if I can push better, breathe better, manage pain better, meet the next love of my life, see what he looks like, weighs, etc. So totally worth it!
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  #27  
July 3rd, 2013, 11:58 PM
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Rosie, my births were both different.

DD1 I was induced very early for pre-e, and I was on this freaking high dose of pitocin. Labor hurt so much! I got an epidural that worked for maybe 30 minutes, and it was completely worn off when the head was out. The pushing did not hurt me. I felt an ache, but the pressure and even snip was nothing. I didn't rip with her or anything.

DD2 I was induced 4 days early. I had contractions off and on since 20 weeks, and I was just so tired of pregnancy. It was rough. Hyperemesis, emergency surgery at 12 weeks, an inhaler, a heart monitor, 9 ER visits for fluids, emergency ambulance ride... I was DONE! And it really helped that I wanted a Valentine's baby. lol Anyway, elective induction, lowest level of pit. Regular contractions started immediately, and I asked for the epi so I never had to feel pain. They all failed, however this time labor did not hurt that much. They were like period cramps, and some of them were like the "bad" ones where you want to stay in bed. Pushing SUCKED. I had several tears, and I believe that's why it hurt so much. I would rather recover from surgery than have another pushing stage like that! lol

No tears with DD1, and her head was over 15". 3 tears everywhere except where the next OB stretched me, and DD2 came out with a 13.75" head. Maybe my first OB gave me that husband stitch? Sex had been slightly painful sometimes since I had DD1, and he was an older guy. I'm speculating, though.

As for the most painful thing ever, labor and childbirth isn't to me. I've had a gallbladder attack, and I can honestly say that hurts much much worse. I will give birth with no meds, rips and all, 10 times over if I never have to feel that pain again. I told DH as much right after my doctor caught the second one. "Wow, still not worse than the gallbladder attack."

You may have a wonderful labor and childbirth. It might be the best of both. Period like cramps that progress quickly, and then a baby that does not rip at all. There are ladies that have babies without any labor pain. I hope that's me next time! lol
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  #28  
July 4th, 2013, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Spyctre View Post


As for the most painful thing ever, labor and childbirth isn't to me. I've had a gallbladder attack, and I can honestly say that hurts much much worse. I will give birth with no meds, rips and all, 10 times over if I never have to feel that pain again. I told DH as much right after my doctor caught the second one. "Wow, still not worse than the gallbladder attack."

That surprises me!! I had gallstones too and they were extremely painful to the point I thought I was dying, but still didn't touch the pain of childbirth. It gives me hope that this birth may be better!!
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  #29  
July 4th, 2013, 07:22 AM
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I don't really care what other people think about how I decide to give birth. I've had an epi for all three of mine...no regrets. I wanted to watch the birth and see my child being born, not focusing on how much it hurts. I had great labors and deliveries with all three. If the person in the next room chooses an all natural route, so be it. People should not judge the other mamas on their choice of birth plan, for in the end, we all want the same outcome, a healthy baby!
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  #30  
July 5th, 2013, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Cccbb61013 View Post
That surprises me!! I had gallstones too and they were extremely painful to the point I thought I was dying, but still didn't touch the pain of childbirth. It gives me hope that this birth may be better!!
My attack was pretty bad. They gave me the largest dose of morphine they could TWICE! lol I did compare it to childbirth. I said it was the worst pitocin contraction I'd had with DD1 only around my rib cage and it never stopped. They mentioned something about thorny stones. I never have to worry about it again since I've had that thing out!

The attack lasted hours, but I kept thinking the pain would go away. I thought it was bad cocoa. Didn't go to the ER for a long time. Pushing a baby out was maybe 3 minutes.
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  #31  
July 5th, 2013, 04:25 AM
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I will also say my gall bladder attacks were WORSE then child birth!!
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  #32  
July 5th, 2013, 07:00 AM
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Well I guess I am un-natural then, lol. I have had 3 epi's. The first one was a failed epi, I ended up feeling everything. The last 2 were much better experiences. I still felt the birth, pushing, pain, pressure, etc, but it wasn't as intense.

Honestly though, I think it's either the pregnancy hormones, or my age, but I just don't give a crap if someone judges me on my birth experience, lol.

I guess I have gotten ornery in my old age hahaha
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  #33  
July 5th, 2013, 07:25 AM
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lol I think I'm the same. At my age and number of kids I practically have a been there done that check list. Dh and I joke I need a c-section to complete the collection.

I'm also the one who had an easy natural birth with my dd and karma smacked me with my next child in giving me the worst labor ever and I begged for an epi. I dare anyone to debate me on going natural. No two labors are the same!!!
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  #34  
July 6th, 2013, 11:13 AM
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Hey sweetie. It was me. I was induced due to pre-e. I ended up getting an epi because they were going to give me a c-section anyway, because I wasn't progressing fast enough, but as soon as they had the epi "in", the baby came out. It's pretty scary because I think, what if I had needed a c-section, because the epi was NOT working and they kept saying that was "normal". Really? Normal to still feel all the pain?

Now, I've had a natural, out-of-hospital childbirth before. It was the best birth I ever had. I was really depressed about this birth. I don't mean that to be snobby, and I hope it's not. And if people think of my birth as natural, I'm okay with that, and if they don't, I'm not hurt or offended. But to me, there was nothing "natural" about what I went through. The delivery was perhaps in some ways natural, but the rest of the experience was just pure hell, and everything that has followed hasn't been so great either

The good news is, the baby didn't have any effects from the epi because 1) it wasn't administered right (I think due to the swelling) and 2) even if it had been, she came out as soon as I layed down after it was (supposedly) in place. But she was affected by the magnesium. I was on and off of it for 5 days (they can only do 48 hours at a time) and then on it for 24 hours following the birth. Anyway, it did cross into her system. I feel so bad for her having to deal with that because I know how horrible it was for me, a full grown woman, and she was just a 3 lb 11oz baby girl.

Now, I'm personally not "anti epidural" as in caring if someone else gets one. And I've dealt with people who are all for epis and often feel like I can't share about my birth experience with my youngest son because I don't want to come across as snobby, and I don't want to tell them why I chose not to have an epi because I don't want my reasons to sound like a judgment against them, because it's not. It's just what I prefer. And most of my reasons have to do with hating hospitals, needles, and IVs lol.

One thing I do regret though was that I didn't trust my body. I knew I was in transition but I let some nurse who doesn't know my body convince me I wasn't because I was only 2cm. But deep down, I knew. I knew the birth was minutes away, and still I asked for the epidural. To me it goes deeper than not getting a natural childbirth. It wasn't just about epi or no epi. I didn't trust my body. I lost trust in my body because I felt like my body had failed me with my pregnancy. I felt angry at my body, and this is because my baby would have probably made it to term if my body hadn't failed me and caused me to need an induction in the first place.

It is, admittedly, hard for me to see people pass up the opportunity to have the birth I wanted BUT I know that is my emotions talking. My logical side is happy they can have the birth THEY want for THEM even if I couldn't have the birth I want for me. So, I'm dealing with a lot of feelings about all of this.

I think it's perfectly acceptable for people to decide what is natural to them and to define their birth on their terms. Birth is a very personal thing, no one should define someone else's birth experience for them. If someone feels their birth is natural because of a failed epi, who is anyone else to argue? If someone feels their birth is natural because it was vaginal, why should a home birthing mama care? It doesn't change her birth. It doesn't "undermine" what she achieved (I know some who think it does, but really, it doesn't; the power of a birthing experience has to do with the mama's experience and perception, not how other people define their births).

One thing I am happy about is that I didn't end up needing a c-section. I know many people have had great c-sections and loved their experiences, but mentally that wasn't something I could handle. Not because c-sections are "less than" but because *I* was too scared of having one, and because my epi didn't work and no one was listening to me, and in retrospect that could have been a horror story waiting to happen.

I hope everyone here will have the births they want. <3 <3 <3

Anyway, sorry to "crash" your due date club, I just wanted to share my thoughts. I hope none of it is offensive or snobby, because I don't mean it that way.
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  #35  
July 6th, 2013, 11:21 AM
alittlelost's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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PS: Though I am sad about my birth and though it was not as wonderful as the typical definition of a "natural" birth (such as I had with my previous child), I don't feel "shame" over it and I don't feel like anyone is "better than me" because they had a natural childbirth. I did what I had to do for me and my baby and I did the best I could, with my condition and emotional/mental state, to have the healthiest birth possible. If anyone is judgey at me for that, that is truly their problem. I have my own problems to deal with and that is just not one of them

and FYI, I still think natural childbirth is great and get excited for mamas who get to experience it. My feelings had not changed one iota due to me ending up needing a intervention. In fact, if anything, I feel even MORE strongly about natural childbirth now. Having has 2 "normal" hospital births, 1 natural childbirth, and 1 "high intervention" hospital birth, it really only reaffirms that my number one birth choice is natural. If someone doesn't want to have one, that's fine. Some people have had both and prefer it in the hospital. But for me, my natural childbirth was 9 billion times better than all my other births. But it's worth noting that my kids are equally awesome and equally loved, and that's more important than the birth experience itself.
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Last edited by alittlelost; July 6th, 2013 at 11:25 AM.
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  #36  
July 6th, 2013, 11:30 AM
alittlelost's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooper1414 View Post
I wanted to watch the birth and see my child being born, not focusing on how much it hurts.
It's interesting how comments like this can be made to make natural childbirth sound worse, but no one ever thinks anything of it. If anyone here is thinking of trying for a natural childbirth, I want them to know you can watch the birth and enjoy the birth despite the pain (and if baby is in a good position the pushing phase doesn't hurt as much. Pushing my older two out didn't hurt at all because of the epi and pushing my youngest son out hurt a TON because of bad positioning, but pushing out my little girl was fine. The contractions and my cervix dilating so fast hurt really bad but once my body was pushing her out I felt relief. But it was hard to see her through the drug haze of magnesium and with my big belly in the way and all the swelling. I wish I could have breastfed her at birth like I did with my first 3, though. I feel like I got to "enjoy" my youngest son after birth the most because I wasn't attached to IVs and on meds and such

All in all, I think that there is judgment from ALL sides of birthing and I wish there was judgment from none. We should support people who want natural childbirths and we should respect those who don't. To be honest, I think it says more about a person how they treat their child once their child is here. How they deliver their baby or manage labor isn't so important in the scheme of things.

Oh, and for anyone who is thinking of going natural and worried about the pain, I never feel pain until transition. I feel really strong, painless braxton hips with, at most, the MILDEST of period-like cramping. When transition starts, the pain is all I can think about, it's the WORST (and I had my gallbladder out at age 15; this was worse and worse than my gallstone attacks!) but it's short. Once transition starts, baby is almost there. With my oldest, I got an epi 1 hour into transition, he was born 10 minutes later. My oldest daughter I got an epi at the start of transition, she was born an hour later. With my youngest son, he was born about 1-2 hours into transition also. My youngest was born about 45 minutes into transition. Some people experience longer transition, though, and honestly if my transition was longer than 2 hours I'd want an epi, too! In fact, I wanted an epi with my youngest son but there was none around haha. I'm glad there was none around, but IN THAT MOMENT you want the pain to stop. I would have had to had a natural childbirth with him anyway though because I was 7cm before contractions started, and most hospitals won't give an epi after 7cm.
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Last edited by alittlelost; July 6th, 2013 at 11:36 AM.
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  #37  
July 6th, 2013, 12:12 PM
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Oh, you didn't seem snobbish to me. I didn't read everything on the natural board because I was so mad. I thought someone had told you that your birth wasn't good, and you had gone through so much. When did having a good birth have a checklist women needed to meet?

I wrote someone in your DDC, not sure if she was your mod or what. She's free to put that entire message up there, word for word. I was just angry for you. After all I read, you deserved to feel accomplished at least. Baby is here, you are both safe.

When I was induced with pre-e for my first, I had an epidural that lasted maybe through transition, 30...maybe 45 minutes. When I started to push I kept telling them it hurt. Should it hurt? Can I have another dose? And that birth was horrible. I ended up with PTSD. I refused to even go into a hospital for the next 3 years. But at the same time I was able to take something from it. Even if it was nothing more than describing pitocin contractions on the monitor or how "Birthing Suites" aren't all they are cracked up to be. And I also believe it is the nurses that make the difference. I only liked my second birth because of the nurses. They listened to me. I recall something about yours not listening. That could get me started on a whole other rant! lol
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  #38  
July 6th, 2013, 12:41 PM
alittlelost's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I figured you meant well. You left such a nice and encouraging message on my birth story. I think it's just a misunderstanding anyway. I wasn't offended by anything on the NCB board. To me, it wasn't a good birth, so when someone says that it doesn't bother me, I think they are just trying to validate how *I* feel, if that makes sense. But it is ALSO nice to have people tell me that my birth was good, even if it wasn't good *to me*. Like I said, I have a lot of feelings about the birth. I was worried though that some things I have said because of those feelings might have come across as snobby, when that's not how I see it. I'm glad I haven't said anything to offend you Thank you for caring about my birth, my daughter, and me. It helps to know there are other people who have been through the same or similar.

The nurses do make a difference. Even though this was my worst birth, it was my best hospital experience. There were a couple bad nurses, but the rest were AMAZING. I agree, I did walk away with something from all of this. New experiences I can share and new ways I can help others. I still wish it had turned out the way I had hoped, though. It's especially hard since this was my last birth. But the end result is most important: my daughter and I are okay. I do have a lot of additional stress with her being preemie, in NICU, breastfeeding/pumping issues, and things we have to look out for moving forward. It may be a few years yet before I feel at peace, and I just hope that I can still enjoy these few years without them being dampered by the struggles we face and the struggle that lie ahead.
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Last edited by alittlelost; July 6th, 2013 at 12:45 PM.
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  #39  
July 6th, 2013, 01:35 PM
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I love you alittlelost(I won't say your name here lol)baby girl is beautiful and you are an amazing strong women and mother no matter how she came into the work

And I agree I have had 3 out of 4 natural labours and I very much got to enjoy and be there for them you don't NEED an epi to fully see and enjoy your birth!!!!!
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  #40  
July 7th, 2013, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyctre View Post
How do I feel about it? It hurts my feelings! Lol

You read so many things about endorphins and not drugging the baby that it's almost the "best" way to deliver. Since I tried for some intervention and it failed, it's like being told I still wasn't good enough.

My first birth was so bad I ended up with PTSD, but I can't even say I did my best to some people. I was full of meds, full of an epidural that wore off during the pushing, but to some it isn't good enough. Not the "best."

My second was so hard, but I did it. And it doesn't fit the list because my birth doesn't start with me waking up to my water spontaneously breaking. I deserve my crotch victory!
you do deserve your victory, in my opinion a birth with a failed epidural is worse than any 'natural' vaginal delivery. As a doula I see the difference at my births, the mamas who decide to go with out pain meds (with or without induction) are set in their mind that the pain is only a stepping stone and much more capable to deal with it than those who have it in their minds to get pain relief. The reason isn't because one is stronger than the other, just a mind set, if you expect pain relief only to get a moment of it, or only have it on half your body or whatever then you are not equipped to deal with that... and that makes your birth HARDER, not easier, not even the same. Good job to you for all you went through, you totally rock! AND you had a 'super natural' childbirth.. not in a spiritual sense of course, but in the sense that your body received messages of pain relief without the actual relief therefore making it harder on you.
And birth PTSD SUCKS!!!! I had it after having a C-section with my daughter in which I felt them cut me open, and then was out for the actual birth.... you did great mama!
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