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"Natural Childbirth" just became snobbish to me.


Forum: October 2013 Playroom

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  #1  
July 2nd, 2013, 08:58 PM
Spyctre's Avatar Arwen
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Freaking Louisiana
Posts: 7,442
This may be a little bit of a rant...

I was either in September or August DDC, maybe another, I'll blame not remembering on pregnancy brain. There was a lady that had pre-e, and she had to be hospitalized. Ended up giving birth very early. She was full of medications to try and help her condition, and she had a failed epidural. Baby came out, and she felt the pain. But unless I read it wrong, she did not have a "natural birth" because she had to be on medication for pre-e and induction.

That makes me really mad. I had 3 failed epidurals with my second, and I felt everything. It hurt so much! My doctor fisted my newly stitched vagina. It hurt to pee for a week cause even that ripped. The only thing I could take away from the horrible experience of pushing that child out was that I had one of those natural childbirths that all those crazy women actually want. I had a tiny bit of womanly honor there. I felt the pain, and I rocked childbirth. Literally, like a heavy metal band's "singing."

But now it's not "natural." As far as I'm concerned, if you feel the pain, you are a natural childbirth mama. If your cesarean starts to hurt in the middle of it, f*ck it, that's natural, too. When did natural go from delivering vaginally to having to meet a list of qualifications?

Did you get medications during labor?
NOT NATURAL!
Failed pain management?
NOT NATURAL!
Induced to save your life but still feel that baby ripping apart your hoohoo?
SCREW YOU, LADY, NOT NATURAL!

I mean, honestly! Why do women make things so difficult on each other? You don't get to be in the elite unless you are pushing that baby out in the middle of a lake or bathtub or stream or something. And then you still aren't unless you're out in the fields the next day! BTW, I think that's a lie. I am willing to bet women in those fields get a few days off.



There's probably more to it, but I am full of too much pregnancy rage to read further.
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  #2  
July 2nd, 2013, 09:48 PM
"Shay-see"
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: CA
Posts: 1,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyctre View Post
I mean, honestly! Why do women make things so difficult on each other? You don't get to be in the elite unless you are pushing that baby out in the middle of a lake or bathtub or stream or something. And then you still aren't unless you're out in the fields the next day! BTW, I think that's a lie. I am willing to bet women in those fields get a few days off.
LMFAO.

Natural childbirth is another term for vaginal delivery, afaict.

Whether you get pain meds is another matter entirely. If your pain meds wear off while you're delivering; guess what? You didn't have pain meds! Amazing how simple this is.

My mom had an extra-strength tylenol and then squeezed out her two kids with no interventions whatsoever. That's pretty natural if you ask me, but then again, any medicine is natural. We evolved to use it. The goal is to survive and make more of you, after all.

My husband and I both have pretty big heads and so did my daughter and the ex I had her with. I'm a puny 5'3". If the way I survive to reproduce again is that I scrape together the resources to pay highly educated professionals to get that child safely out and stitch me up again, then I've won the game just as well as anyone else - the way I see it anyway.

All this BS competition between women for ... whatever the hell - beauty, wealth, vaginal expansion (?!?!) whatever - it's all ridiculous. Someone the other day said it's designed to distract us and keep us from being competitors in the boys club of corporate/professional America. I thought that was an interesting perspective, if a bit cynical - but hey, there may be some truth there.

Anyway, good rant, Spyctre. I'll give my computer screen a high five now.
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  #3  
July 2nd, 2013, 09:56 PM
Leah
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,700
But how do you really feel?

Real talk though, I agree with the women making it harder rage there. I'll even go a step further and say screw the elitist attitude about any aspect of childbirth. If you give birth naturally, kudos, you rock. And if you have an epidural, kudos, you rock too. I thought the goal was to give birth and have a healthy mom and babe. I cannot stand the competitive nature of some people. Made for it or not, it's one of the most physically traumatic things you could go through, regardless of how.
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  #4  
July 2nd, 2013, 10:07 PM
2Corinthians10:4's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Although my decisions are on the extreme side of the childbirth spectrum (attempting a homebirth), they are just that MY DECISIONS. If you want an epi, demural, etc. go for it! The only time I talk out against something is when mama's are trying to get their doctors to induce (for non-medical reasons) early or saying they want a c-section because it would be more convenient or easier (again for non-medical reasons, this does not include repeat c-sections since there is a risk involved in VBACS that some mom's don't feel comfortable taking).

My point is I don't judge people for going to a hospital and having an epi, so I hate it when I am judged for wanting to stay at home and chill in my bathtub lol. It's your experience, do it your way. As long as mom and baby are healthy in the end and you are not making decisions that could risk your babies health for your own selfish reasons then go for it.
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  #5  
July 2nd, 2013, 10:21 PM
Spyctre's Avatar Arwen
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Freaking Louisiana
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How do I feel about it? It hurts my feelings! Lol

You read so many things about endorphins and not drugging the baby that it's almost the "best" way to deliver. Since I tried for some intervention and it failed, it's like being told I still wasn't good enough.

My first birth was so bad I ended up with PTSD, but I can't even say I did my best to some people. I was full of meds, full of an epidural that wore off during the pushing, but to some it isn't good enough. Not the "best."

My second was so hard, but I did it. And it doesn't fit the list because my birth doesn't start with me waking up to my water spontaneously breaking. I deserve my crotch victory!
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  #6  
July 2nd, 2013, 10:36 PM
Spyctre's Avatar Arwen
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Freaking Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Corinthians10:4 View Post
Although my decisions are on the extreme side of the childbirth spectrum (attempting a homebirth), they are just that MY DECISIONS. If you want an epi, demural, etc. go for it! The only time I talk out against something is when mama's are trying to get their doctors to induce (for non-medical reasons) early or saying they want a c-section because it would be more convenient or easier (again for non-medical reasons, this does not include repeat c-sections since there is a risk involved in VBACS that some mom's don't feel comfortable taking).

My point is I don't judge people for going to a hospital and having an epi, so I hate it when I am judged for wanting to stay at home and chill in my bathtub lol. It's your experience, do it your way. As long as mom and baby are healthy in the end and you are not making decisions that could risk your babies health for your own selfish reasons then go for it.
Elective cesarean isn't off the table for me because I want to be fixed. I do not want surgery, but it makes sense to me to get it all done at once. I hear too many stories about the vasecotmy healing. As of now I am planning all natural only because the epis don't work on me. I completely understand keeping your distance from the hospital and those dang nurses that wake you up. Lol I went home and recovered from the stay more than the birth!
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  #7  
July 3rd, 2013, 03:03 AM
Julie
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 3,079
I agree Arwen. I don't think it's right to judge other women about their birth decisions. My ex made a smart-*** comment to me when I asked for an epi with my third son but never got the meds because the doc turned the pitocin up and he started coming out before the anesthesiologist could finish. He said "does that even count since you did ask for it?" what a dick! I wanted to find out what it felt like w/out an epi and I found out, no matter the details, and it was rough to say the least! so at least now I know, but I wouldn't say it was a glorious, peaceful experience.
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  #8  
July 3rd, 2013, 05:37 AM
soul_donut's Avatar Melissa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irshtripletsmommy View Post
I agree Arwen. I don't think it's right to judge other women about their birth decisions. My ex made a smart-*** comment to me when I asked for an epi with my third son but never got the meds because the doc turned the pitocin up and he started coming out before the anesthesiologist could finish. He said "does that even count since you did ask for it?" what a dick! I wanted to find out what it felt like w/out an epi and I found out, no matter the details, and it was rough to say the least! so at least now I know, but I wouldn't say it was a glorious, peaceful experience.
They key word above is EX!
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  #9  
July 3rd, 2013, 05:41 AM
fludderbye's Avatar Super Mommy
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just officially

PAIN is Highly over rated- more power to anyone who wants it LOL


Now that being said I get c-sections- so I get my pain its just after the fact LOL
so there is no real pain free alternative LOL
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  #10  
July 3rd, 2013, 06:00 AM
happywife's Avatar Super Mommy
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My first two were born with epidurals that worked, my third was with a failed epidural, 4 & 5 were c-section (twins) and I remember the spinal being the most horrible thing ever, much worse than an epidural. Then I chose to have my sleeping son with zero pain meds, I wanted any and all memories of him that I could possibly get. This time I will either have another c-section (really hoping that's not the case) or I will have a vag delivery possibly with IV pain meds.

We are all different, our bodies all react to pain differently. I don't think anyone should judge anyone else for our choice in how to handle OUR deliveries. IMHO, a natural childbirth only involves the baby being born vaginally. If you choose pain meds, then that is your choice. It doesn't make you less of a woman or a mother... SMH

Some women just love drama and will stir it up at any given opportunity.
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  #11  
July 3rd, 2013, 06:32 AM
Lotsakids's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Natural childbirth is called that because that is what it is. Natural. No interventions, no drugs.

It's not a label made to attack women or make them feel bad any more than the 'label' cesearean section, or 'highly medicalised, or 'lotus' birth for that matter. It is just a description, it's NOT a judgement.

Personally I don't care. I really don't. And I don't understand someone (for example,) a woman who got induced & then an epi getting upset because it doesn't fit the label of 'natural birth.'
Yes it is a 'vaginal' birth, but no, it's not a 'natural birth.'

I feel 'good' about every single one of my births outcome wise because they brought me my children. I've had some totally natural births, some that have had minor intervention, & my last was high intervention & far from natural even though she still came out of my chi chi. Awesome birth. Far from 'natural.'
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  #12  
July 3rd, 2013, 06:44 AM
Wanta.number2's Avatar Hi, I'm Tiffani!
Join Date: Jan 2013
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Amen. I don't care if you want to have your baby in your bathtub or in a hospital bed. As long as you and baby are safe, WHO CARES? For me, the birth is pretty secondary when I have a new baby that is hungry, needs to be loved, changed, and who everyone wants to see. Geez.
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  #13  
July 3rd, 2013, 07:07 AM
Urchin's Avatar Loving every minute.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotsakids View Post
Natural childbirth is called that because that is what it is. Natural. No interventions, no drugs.

It's not a label made to attack women or make them feel bad any more than the 'label' cesearean section, or 'highly medicalised, or 'lotus' birth for that matter. It is just a description, it's NOT a judgement.

Personally I don't care. I really don't. And I don't understand someone (for example,) a woman who got induced & then an epi getting upset because it doesn't fit the label of 'natural birth.'
Yes it is a 'vaginal' birth, but no, it's not a 'natural birth.'

I feel 'good' about every single one of my births outcome wise because they brought me my children. I've had some totally natural births, some that have had minor intervention, & my last was high intervention & far from natural even though she still came out of my chi chi. Awesome birth. Far from 'natural.'
Just lurking...but I agree with this. Natural is just a descriptive word of not using meds. I do know however, that there are some women out there that judge based on ANYTHING you do in regards to your pregnancy, birth, child raising...that's just how they are. You just gotta learn to not give a heck about what they think.

Personally, I strived to go through my whole pregnancy as natural as possible. I wasn't going to take any meds...not drink any coffee, I was going to birth without pain meds and have no inductions..blah blah blah.

When it came down to it, I ended up with hydronephrosis during my pregnancy. That meant that 3 times, I had to be put under anesthetic and have surgery while pregnant. I had to be shot up with morphine.. ...so there went my pure, healthy, untainted pregnancy.

Then, due to the stress of those medical issues, my daughter was IUGR. I had to be induced a little early (which I swore I'd never do)....again, there goes my promise to never get induced.

While labouring, things went so fast that I didn't realize I was progressing so fast and thought there was no way I'd get through...so I had gas, nubain and an epi. lol

The point to my rambling is that I am 100% happy that things went the way they did. I went into pregnancy and labour educated and aware of what each option could bring. I made educated decisions. I would never let anyone else's opinion make me feel bad about what I decided to do. I am to this day, 100% satisfied with my birth experience. I hope that my next can go just as well, especially if I have to experience the same complications again. I feel blessed that my daughter is here and healthy and happy

Sure, I will try again to go natural if I am blessed with another pregnancy some day, but I will not dwell on the fact that my original plan with my first birth didn't work out. I don't get mad if people don't consider my labour or birth natural...because it wasn't. I don't feel judged.

*BIG HUGS*

Hopefully I didn't over step my boundaries with posting this, but I just wanted to let you know that you should take other people's opinions with a grain of salt. If you're educated and making your own educated decisions, that's what counts!
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Last edited by Urchin; July 3rd, 2013 at 07:12 AM.
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  #14  
July 3rd, 2013, 08:52 AM
Rosiegirl7's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I agree with everyone, and I just wanted to add that labor and delivery isn't the same for everyone. I have a friend that pushed for 10 minutes, no meds..she said it was "easy" then I have friends that used an epi, pushed for hours and still told of their painful stories. Every body is different, and of course the health of the baby and mother is what's most importnant.

But now I'm scared....is it really that painful?!? Ahhhhhh first timer here. And trust me I will ask for meds if needed!! No judgement.
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  #15  
July 3rd, 2013, 09:17 AM
sweety_pie's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I'm defiantly not against meds during labor if needed, with my first it was 16 hours long with 2 hours of pushing and a 4th degree tear. I NEEDED meds!! lol Plus I was 10 days over and induced with him! With my daughter though labor went so fast, 4 hours that I didn't need any meds!! I will say I felt better after having her, but I'm not saying I won't get meds this time, each labor may need something different!
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  #16  
July 3rd, 2013, 10:16 AM
soul_donut's Avatar Melissa
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Florida
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Yeah, I'm over judgey folks. FWIW my goal is natural but I haven't ruled anything out. I would only rule out elective inducing or c-sections for myself because I'd prefer to eat spicy jalapeño poppers, have a lot of sex, and lunge everywhere to get that water to break on its own. Thing is, my mom had to have intervention though she didn't want it because she was in labor forever and they just had to do a c-section to get me out. She told me not to worry about it and things can happen so just be at peace and learn the breathing! Then, like Rosie, I have friends that were like, Oh labor ain't no thang! 3 hours and then pop here comes baby! I hope I'm one of these ladies, but we'll see.

Kegel bump.. and

Squat bump!
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  #17  
July 3rd, 2013, 11:29 AM
SierraWinter's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I totally get where you're coming from. I love the idea of natural birth. I have several girlfriends that use to be doula's, a current friend that is one, and a SIL that wants to become one. I love crunchy granola but sometimes that crowd can be very judgmental.

I have been torn as to have a doula during our birth for this very reason. Due to having such severe asthma & heart palpitations my doctors wants pains meds to be used to try to not set off my lungs during delivery - I dont want to feel like a doula would be sitting there judging me for it. Or if I have to have a c-section with all the issues I've had with this polyp. I have seen woman put their baby at risk because they have pregnancy complications, but come hell or high water by golly they're going to screw modern medicine, even at the risk of their baby. Good for you, but I wont put my life and health at risk, nor that of my baby, just so I can carry a badge of honor saying I had a home birth or a natural birth. And it pisses me off to be judged for this. I've had the natural folks tell me I can control my health issues if I switched to a grain free diet. I've had people private message me on facebook asking if I've tried essential oils. I use to do almost all natural until I started having health issues over a year ago, all the natural crap didnt phase it. Its like asking someone with a broken leg to not walk on it. I'm so over people asking "have you tried this or that?" and giving me looks like I'm awful because I have to do a hospital birth. Or woman saying you're not in touch with yourself if you dont have an orgasm during birth. Eesh, and these same folks say Christians ram their views down their throats - folks what the heck do you think you're doing?? Yeah, raming your "religious" views of birth down my throat.
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  #18  
July 3rd, 2013, 11:33 AM
"Shay-see"
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: CA
Posts: 1,032
Here's the thing though: the idea of "Natural" being some amazing and beautiful, clearly defined thing is just silliness plain and simple. Who here is qualified to stand in judgement, point at people's birthstories, and proclaim "oh that was natural, and that wasn't, and that wasn't, but that was"?

The fact is every one of us who has access to this internet board also has access to emergency care if our ideal precious so-called natural deliveries go horribly wrong, which happens all the time. I'm not going to stand here and take people down and say it's not natural *enough* to squeeze out a baby in a bathtub in your nice suburban home in a first world country, because you weren't in a dirt-floored hut in rural Brazil, attended by your tribe's elders. That would be a jerk-assed thing for me to do.

It's SIMILARLY jerk-assed to tell someone whose epi wore off that her birth didn't qualify as sufficiently natural. Or - hypothetically - a woman who suffered an injury to her spine such that she never felt a thing but otherwise delivered without intervention. Or a woman who took a tylenol. I mean, seriously, there is such a huge spectrum of ways these things can go and turn out, none among us has the right or authority to stand there with some red tape and tell other women which side of it they stand on.

I'm tired of this birth shame nonsense, and there's no doubt in my mind that it is severely damaging to the women and children who are subjected to the social repercussions of it. When you've done all you bloody can over the course of many days to squeeze a child out of your back end, and the choice you have is either to die and take your child with you or accept some pervasive and permanent sense of failure for how you've survived the experience, society is Doing It Wrong, and this garbage needs to stop now. Describe your birth experience however you want, and take pride in it, and seriously - screw anyone who thinks its their business to tell you what's what. You're alive, and you've reproduced. You've won the game.

And those are my very bright and shiny two cents on the matter. You're welcome.
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  #19  
July 3rd, 2013, 12:08 PM
WorkerBeeMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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With my first, I only felt contractions until about 4-5 cm and then the epidural kicked in (after two doses - first did not take) and I could not feel a thing. It was great! I pushed her out in under five minutes!

Second one, I had a lighter epidural at around 5-7 cm, still felt mild contractions and by the time it came to push, I felt EVERYTHING!!! I was not prepared and was really shocked. I pushed her out in under five minutes as well. Then she came out, and I cried from the pain.

With this one, I am getting an epidural and I want the button for more meds in my hand at all times, lol. I don't mind early labor contractors, even though with pitocin they hurt, I kinda like it. Makes me feel like I am really in labor, but once it gets bad, I want to be pain free!

This will be my third induction, third kid, and I am fine with it. Inductions work great for me. I have 6 hour labors, push for less than 5 and the pain for the most part was manageable. I loved both my labors and hope this one is just as good (although a little less painful than the second)! I know things could be totally different this time as each labor and delivery is unique, but I am hoping it will be similar.

Oh and when people act like they are better for doing it without pain meds or for not being induced and going into labor naturally, I just ignore them. It is just them being arrogant and ignorant and whatever.

I think people should have the birth they want and call it a day - after all the most important thing IS that mom and baby make it through delivery okay.
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  #20  
July 3rd, 2013, 01:14 PM
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Seriously none of this will matter after you pass the childbearing years. Unless I am hanging with new moms this subject does not come up. You will be talking about braces and pimples before you know it.
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