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Advice on TTA


Forum: Natural Family Planning and FAM

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  • 1 Post By ShawnaCAN

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  #1  
August 2nd, 2012, 12:53 AM
baabaamilker's Avatar Veteran
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Ok, I started a new cycle again. So that makes three miscarriages in a row. Thankfully it didn't last too long. I was eager to get on to another cycle, because once again none of the urine tests were coming out positive.

Since I've never used my signs to avoid getting pregnant I need a little advice. I'm the kind of gal who almost always has creamy mucus. This last cycle while TTA I saw absolutely no EWCM until the following morning after intercourse. Now there was creamy, but creamy is normal for me. For instance last cycle only two days out of the entire cycle were actually sticky, all of the other days were either EWCM or creamy.

So that being said how could I identify ahead of time which days to try to avoid? How would I have known last cycle that I was getting ready to ovulate? I especially didn't expect to ovulate on day 7.

Now the one thing I have noticed all three cycles post partum is that my libido very much increases around my ovulation. So IF that continues to be a pattern I could use that to help. However, I know that can be completely unreliable, and should never really be used.

So please help me with advice Shawna, or anybody else who is really great at this or maybe has a similar CM pattern to mine.

I'm really hoping to avoid for the next two cycles to let my body get back to something resembling normal and out from under these pregnancy hormones. It's like have back to back postpartum cycles.

Thanks
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  #2  
August 2nd, 2012, 07:17 AM
rlh27's Avatar Caleb's Mommy!
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I'm sorry you didn't get your sticky bean I'm not Shawna, but I would consider getting a instructor to help you, especially since your cycles are a little crazy. She'd help you sort out how to determine if you are fertile or not on any given day. I think a lot of methods offer instructors that you can learn from online.
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  #3  
August 2nd, 2012, 08:42 AM
ShawnaCAN's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I would also recommend letting an instructor assist you with this! It will help you sort out what is truly fertile for you and what isn't! And it will also help you learn the rules for avoiding pregnancy.

It's not unusual for women to have one type of "mucus" all the time, it's actually infertile discharge. But to be very sure that a particular kind of mucus is infertile discharge, it's necessary to chart it's sensation and appearance carefully for 3 cycles. During those first 3 cycles of observation, you would need to abstain from genital contact completely until the 4th day after ovulation is confirmed. After 3 cycles to establish your infertile discharge, you could resume intercourse during the earlier part of the cycle (according to the avoiding rules).

The Billings Ovulation Method is a good system for figuring out infertile discharge, and the rules for avoiding are also simple - there's only 4 rules to remember. With Billings, you pay attention to sensation (how wet or dry you feel during the day while you walk around), and appearance of mucus. The sensation is the most important part, because it can change when you're fertile even when the appearance doesn't change.

There is an online course here: Learn NFP Online | On-line Natural Family Planning course by Marriage Ministries, approved by WOOMB
There is also an office in Waldbrol, Germany. Not sure if that is near you!

The Sympto Thermal Method is also good, but it doesn't get into as much detail for figuring out infertile discharge as mucus only methods do. It includes tracking mucus and taking your basal temperature. Here is an good online course for that: Northwest Family Services Natural Family Planning


Edited to add - I reread your post and noticed you only want to avoid for the next two cycles. In that case, I think the simplest option would just be to abstain until the 4th day after ovulation is confirmed. Are you temping? You won't really have time to get the mucus patterns figured out in that time.
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Last edited by ShawnaCAN; August 2nd, 2012 at 09:04 AM.
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  #4  
August 2nd, 2012, 01:17 PM
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My goal is just two cycles to give my body a rest and let my hormones try to stabilize.

I am temping but you can see by my charts that my temperature for these miscarriages has not been going up until the 10th day or so after I ovulate. I'm positive of my ovulation day because I've taken pregnancy tests before my temp rise and had them come out positive.

It's a bit tricky for us right now. If I were to follow the rules that say-abstaining until four days after ovulation is confirmed-which I'm assuming you mean for me to confirm that by a temp rise, then we are looking at maybe a week (probably less) out of a month would be safe for contact, that is as long as I don't have a ridiculously long cycle. That would be crazy.

I'm not sure exactly how my temps are going to react without the pregnancy hormones there. All of these miscarriages occurred during my first, second, and third cycles after my last baby. I have nothing to go off of as being normal for me right now.
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  #5  
August 2nd, 2012, 02:15 PM
ShawnaCAN's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baabaamilker View Post
I am temping but you can see by my charts that my temperature for these miscarriages has not been going up until the 10th day or so after I ovulate. I'm positive of my ovulation day because I've taken pregnancy tests before my temp rise and had them come out positive.
It's also possible that the recent losses may be giving you the positive pregnancy results.

It's also possible that your most recent bleed wasn't a true menstruation, but an ovulation bleed. If you compare the temps from the bleed to the temps from the cycle before, are they higher? The shift that occurred later may have been a second shift because of the pregnancy.

Taking synthetic progesterone will also raise your temperatures, even if ovulation has not yet occurred. I think overall, there's a lot confusion about what's going on. Working with an instructor might really clear some things up for you!
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  #6  
August 2nd, 2012, 02:21 PM
ShawnaCAN's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baabaamilker View Post
then we are looking at maybe a week (probably less) out of a month would be safe for contact, that is as long as I don't have a ridiculously long cycle. That would be crazy.
Some of us have had to abstain for months at a time while figuring out cycle issues. Having an entire week to enjoy during any of those months would have been Heaven! It can be tough, but sometimes health concerns are worth the sacrifice.
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  #7  
August 2nd, 2012, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnaCAN View Post
Some of us have had to abstain for months at a time while figuring out cycle issues. Having an entire week to enjoy during any of those months would have been Heaven! It can be tough, but sometimes health concerns are worth the sacrifice.
I just wanted to add that, yes, we currently are going through very long periods of abstaining, 2-3 weeks with a one day window is normal for us right now as my cycle is trying to come back. We are trying hard to avoid, so it's a short term sacrifice we are making together.
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  #8  
August 3rd, 2012, 12:14 AM
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Shawna, I agree that because the miscarriages are so close together that it could be leftover HCG. There are several things that lead me to believe otherwise though.

Here's the link to my second miscarriage cycle. You can see that it is almost identical to my third miscarriage which you can see by clicking on the link in my siggy. The only difference being is that I didn't get the temp rise until about 15 days past ovulation. <a href="http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/202001/">My Ovulation Chart</a>

Well, I guess we'll have to do the best we can. It's not the end of the world should we not be able to identify the time to abstain. However, it's getting very emotional for me with consecutive losses. Especially because of having to go through the symptoms of being pregnant each time. I felt so relieved this time when the symptoms finally died off, I just felt like I was under such a heavy weight.

Well I can't seem to figure out how to make it link directly to that chart. None of the sharing option are working right now, they are all inserting the code directly instead of embedding it in the word I choose.
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  #9  
August 3rd, 2012, 07:58 AM
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I can't relate to long periods of abstaining because we use FAM, and I have no additional advice for TTA, but I wanted to suggest testing until the tests are negative. I have had several friends who had early m/c, and that's what the doctor suggested to do. Test until the tests are negative, and then start trying the next cycle. Then you'll know that there's no hcg left in your system when you start trying again.
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  #10  
August 3rd, 2012, 09:44 AM
ShawnaCAN's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baabaamilker View Post
Shawna, I agree that because the miscarriages are so close together that it could be leftover HCG. There are several things that lead me to believe otherwise though.
But you're taking extra progesterone too, right? That can affect your chart too. The chart doesn't show me *when* you've used the progesterone, to be able to interpret things accordingly. When do you usually take it?
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  #11  
August 3rd, 2012, 10:42 PM
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No I didn't take progesterone this last cycle, just the cycle before.
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  #12  
August 4th, 2012, 08:43 AM
ShawnaCAN's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Oh ok! So what are you confirming ovulation with, if you're sure the temps aren't rising until 10 days later? The hCg can't be considered confirmation of ovulation because of the recent losses. Are you testing for progesterone with blood draws, or Lutenizing Hormone, or what?
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  #13  
August 4th, 2012, 12:19 PM
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Do I have from the Dr. concrete evidence of each pregnancy? No. Other than the HCG blood test that I've been drawing about CD 17 (give or take based up on the time of ovulation). Considering that none of my urine tests every came out as even a hint of positive I'd just find it hard to believe that the HCG was leftover from a previous miscarriage.

My confirmation of ovulation has been the EWCM, along with pregnancy symptoms that occur shortly after (and yes the pregnancy symptoms have been going away but always returning again after ovulation). I know, I know it's impossible to experience symptoms that early. I don't understand it either but I know that when I'm pregnant by symptoms and they do come early, and I've often known about a pregnancy (ones I've carried full term) the day after by symptoms alone. I have never had PMS (or symptoms that could be mistaken for a pregnancy) without a pregnancy present.

Can I provide you with concrete evidence that the blood tests are not testing old HCG? No.

At any rate the subject was about mucus and trying to figure out the best way to avoid getting pregnant at this point to let my body reset. We'll figure it out.
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  #14  
August 4th, 2012, 01:19 PM
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Ok! Good luck!
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  #15  
August 13th, 2012, 11:37 PM
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KUP on how it all goes.
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