Log In Sign Up

Question about confirming an O w/ Slow Rise


Forum: Natural Family Planning and FAM

Notices

Welcome to the JustMommies Message Boards.

We pride ourselves on having the friendliest and most welcoming forums for moms and moms to be! Please take a moment and register for free so you can be a part of our growing community of mothers. If you have any problems registering please drop an email to boards@justmommies.com.

Our community is moderated by our moderation team so you won't see spam or offensive messages posted on our forums. Each of our message boards is hosted by JustMommies hosts, whose names are listed at the top each board. We hope you find our message boards friendly, helpful, and fun to be on!

Like Tree1Likes
  • 1 Post By ShawnaCAN

Reply Post New Topic
  Subscribe To Natural Family Planning and FAM LinkBack Topic Tools Search this Topic Display Modes
  #1  
August 16th, 2012, 10:58 AM
Twin Mama
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: California
Posts: 2,230
I haven't been on here much but I'm confused and want to see if you gals can help me understand. I keep getting depressed when I come on here, especially my usual board which has been flooded with fly-by BPF's that make me want to scream. ANYWAYS! Can you ladies peek at my chart, in my siggy.

A slow rise post O, how do you know that's what's going on? How many days would this normally go on for before you can confirm O? I haven't had a slow rise this slow, but my CM tells me something happened, I O'ed or failed to O. It dried up overnight from ewcm loosey goosey to creamy/lotiony and now very sticky. I keep getting a few tiny chunks of gummy ewcm when i do an internal check which I think is either a piece of my mucus plug for the month or leftover ewcm from my cervix. My CM is like I O'ed... but my temps are slacking. I knew we have like no shot this month because i got a stomach bug and we didn't BD when we should have because of it. Last month when I failed to O when I should have I didnt dry up all the way after I failed, I went watery and then it went back to EWCM.

I fee like I'm in limbo, maybe I O'ed... or not?

Do you have to manually set a CL and O date since my charting software seems to get confused by this? How would I even go about picking my O date this my chart not having anything clearly showing.... anything. It originally discarded my 98.0 temp with rule of thumb, which I agree with, but after today's temp it decided to include it again!

Thank you in advance ladies... not back to work. LOL!
__________________
Brianna(26) & Anthony(27)
Star(woof) & Harley(meow)



Reply With Quote
  #2  
August 16th, 2012, 01:09 PM
ShawnaCAN's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 11,397
You go by the mucus pattern. If it goes through all the stages necessary for Peak, then you can pinpoint ovulation a little better. Ovulation generally occurs on Peak day, the day after, or the second day after. Peak is the last day with a slippery sensation, following a developing, changing pattern of sensation and preceded by an abrupt drying up of the sensation. Internal mucus exams do interfere with the accuracy of your external sensation observations and are less accurate, so that could be adding to the confusion.

Based on your chart, it looks like Peak was on Monday (CD15).

Temps can begin to rise just before ovulation or several days after, so refer back to the CM pattern to narrow it down a bit. Give it a few more days before assuming you have no rise, it may just be taking it's time.

CM can keep sperm cells alive up to 5 days. You have a good shot this month, you used multiple mucus days prior to Peak. Too much DTD can actually make it harder to conceive, so you've covered your bases pretty well.

What do you mean about failing to O last month? It doesn't look like you failed to O last month. There is a good build up of CM with a thermal shift several days after Peak, decent length Luteal Phase.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
August 16th, 2012, 01:53 PM
Twin Mama
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: California
Posts: 2,230
Thank you for the response. You would think 10 months into charting things wouldn't be confusing like this. I'll keep temping and hoping it keeps going up. I don't know how else to check CM besides internally as its rare if ever I can identify it on TP.

I think delayed O is the better term for last month, I think last month got delayed for some unknown reason.
__________________
Brianna(26) & Anthony(27)
Star(woof) & Harley(meow)



Reply With Quote
  #4  
August 16th, 2012, 05:16 PM
ShawnaCAN's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 11,397
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellabri287 View Post
Thank you for the response. You would think 10 months into charting things wouldn't be confusing like this. I'll keep temping and hoping it keeps going up. I don't know how else to check CM besides internally as its rare if ever I can identify it on TP.
Sounds like you're focusing a lot on what you can *see*. This is only part of making accurate CM observations, and actually the less important part. You can observe CM by paying attention to the changes in sensation you feel at vulva - when you notice feeling an increase in wetness or lubrication. That's the CM! It might not show up as something you can see on toilet paper or fingers. It takes 10 times the amount of mucus to see what the vulva can feel as a change in sensation.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
August 16th, 2012, 06:16 PM
Keakie's Avatar Learning to walk in faith
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Near the land of cream cheese
Posts: 5,402
Shawna is awesome.

Those answers are helpful for me too, actually. Like Brianna, I'm showing all of the signs of 'O' having happened (cf went from ewcm to wet to sticky, cervix dropped noticeably and now feels partially closed, had O pain, OPKs went from positive Tuesday pm to negative Wednesday pm) but no temp shift this morning. I was wondering if it was possible to simply take a little extra time to have temps rise, especially if it happened later Wednesday or in the wee hours this morning.
__________________


*Cautiously and excitedly expecting number two - shhh, if we're friends on Facebook. *



Thank you to Babydoll213 for my fabulous siggie!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
August 17th, 2012, 02:31 AM
LJD3Tdance's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Eagle, Idaho
Posts: 59,430
Send a message via AIM to LJD3Tdance Send a message via Yahoo to LJD3Tdance
I'll be interested to see what your next couple temps look like.
__________________




Reply With Quote
  #7  
August 17th, 2012, 05:29 AM
Keakie's Avatar Learning to walk in faith
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Near the land of cream cheese
Posts: 5,402
Any shifts today?
__________________


*Cautiously and excitedly expecting number two - shhh, if we're friends on Facebook. *



Thank you to Babydoll213 for my fabulous siggie!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
August 17th, 2012, 06:48 AM
rlh27's Avatar Caleb's Mommy!
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Alabama
Posts: 5,989
I'm chart stalking you!

Kayla, it looks like you'll be able to confirm O soon, too
__________________
I'm Becky
Wife to Josh
Mommy to Caleb (born 12/11/12)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
August 17th, 2012, 06:54 AM
Keakie's Avatar Learning to walk in faith
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Near the land of cream cheese
Posts: 5,402
I hope so! I had what I believe to be a shift this morning and the cf has dried up so fingers are crossed!
__________________


*Cautiously and excitedly expecting number two - shhh, if we're friends on Facebook. *



Thank you to Babydoll213 for my fabulous siggie!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
August 17th, 2012, 01:53 PM
Twin Mama
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: California
Posts: 2,230
Hey ladies, popping in for an update. Oh an BTW you are all awesome and help me not be so down about things.

I think that's the start of your shift Kayla, woot!

AFM... I had my temp go up again, not super duper high but it's still going up. FF (my backup chart) gave my CH with O on CD15 like you said Shawna. But TCOYF does not think I ovulated.

I'm feeling confused by my CM/VS today as I feel like of wet/goopy down there so much so I put on a liner so I can stay dry. But I'm wondering if it's just normal discharge, it's hot, and things can get icky down there when it's 100+ degrees outside. I checked CM and it's this watery creamy-ish nonsense. IDK it's not anything I'm used to seeing so I'm thrown off right now, it was sticky earlier. I know TCOYF will certainly not give me an O if I put my VS as wet and CM as watery and I'm pretty sure FF will take it away. I'm wondering if this will change after I change and shower after work. I'm so distrusting of myself right now.
__________________
Brianna(26) & Anthony(27)
Star(woof) & Harley(meow)



Reply With Quote
  #11  
August 17th, 2012, 02:07 PM
ShawnaCAN's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 11,397
Chart exactly what you observe, even if it takes your CH's away. It's important. However, how it compares to the CM you had before is also important. Are you as wet as before the alleged O date, or does this feel less wet than before? If it's just as wet, then I would suspect you haven't ovulated yet. That would explain why the temps haven't shifted completely yet. If you are less wet, then you probably just need a few more days to see the full shift.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
August 17th, 2012, 08:07 PM
Twin Mama
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: California
Posts: 2,230
i have to wonder if I am just misinterpreting vagainal wetness as i noticed the stuff i was finding was drying up off my fingers within a few seconds. and after reading my TCOYF book, real CM does not dry up that fast, and thats right. my EWCM does not dry up, nor does my truly creamy CM. so... i still dont know what to think. i showered, we'll see in a few hours what i find down there if its any different.

to answer your question shawna, no. the wetness i feel like not slippery, nothing like when I'm fertile. when fertile i can feel like I have mucos like at my vaginal opening, its a unique and odd feeling and the word snotty comes to mind. this just feels like im super wet and watery down there.

if i check CM and it drys up off my fingers within maybe 5 seconds, then when i touch my fingers together i get a tacky and sticky feeling. how would you chart that? wet or sticky, or dry?
__________________
Brianna(26) & Anthony(27)
Star(woof) & Harley(meow)



Reply With Quote
  #13  
August 17th, 2012, 09:22 PM
ShawnaCAN's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 11,397
I would not chart the finger observations at all! What you feel with your fingers is not nearly as accurate as what you feel at the vulva; the nerve endings are entirely different. Chart your vaginal sensation as you feel it, chart what you see...as you see it...and quit with the fingers. LOL

If the wetness now is much less in comparison to the wetness you had before, then there's no need to question ovulation then. There are so many different kinds of wetness. However you chart it, just use one of the descriptions that is less than what you used before. The important thing is to see that there's a difference, a change, between then and now. Sometimes the right description just isn't an option, because it's no in the list that TCOYF gives you! So just go with whatever seems closest to you.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #14  
August 17th, 2012, 11:33 PM
Twin Mama
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: California
Posts: 2,230
OK maybe I have been doing something wrong then. I'm sorry but now I'm all panicked I'm doing it wrong. Please ladies chime in if what I do is absolutely insane. I'm worrying that it is. TMI warning ahead.

According to my understanding of TCOYF. When determining VS I pay attention to how I feel when I walk, sit down, go about my life. I know I have felt a distinguishable difference between actively producing EWCM fertile and the rest of the time. Though the rest of the time can be like now when its wet/watery, or I feel nothing I can easily determine. When I cant determine it for sure I've gone by how it feels when I sit on the toilet, if I felt like things had to unstick or that it feels dry between my inner lips down there I have gone with that. Would it be better to not chart VS if I can't tell clearly by just walking around?

When determining CM I have always checked internally (I'm trying to learn my cervix too but dont chart it) and chart what I see on my fingers, I also check strechyness and consistency like creamy or sticky ect. How do you check CM at the vulva? Do you just swipe it with a finger externally and see if anything is there? I have done that a few times and when I'm really fertile I get EWCM, and sometimes post O I have gotten clearly creamy CM from an external swipe of the vulva. Like if I did that now it's watery and a little cloudy. But otherwise, I get nothing substantial on an external swipe so I check internally.

And thats how I have adapted charting for myself... I feel incredibly stupid typing it out and am now 99% sure I'm completely wrong. Ladies... be honest.

I knew on the morning of CD16 something changed because my previous days EWCM was completely gone and I felt very much drier than the last few days. I suspected O especially with the wicked cramping I had the previous day gone as well. But my temps didn't go like they had in previous months. After 2 days with no spike and this insanely slow climb I worry. So... I'm going to hope my bladder does not wake me up 2 hours before temp time and see what tomorrow holds.

Post shower my VS feels kind of wet when walking around but there isn't much change from pre shower. I think I'm going to keep it as wet/gooey VS and milky/creamy for CM since it's kinda watery and cloudy... milky? FF is easy... watery CM is separate from EWCM, not so in TCOYF. Sometimes I wonder if paper charting would be easier... I can write in my own crazyness for observations. LOL!
__________________
Brianna(26) & Anthony(27)
Star(woof) & Harley(meow)



Reply With Quote
  #15  
August 18th, 2012, 07:03 AM
Keakie's Avatar Learning to walk in faith
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Near the land of cream cheese
Posts: 5,402
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellabri287 View Post
OK maybe I have been doing something wrong then. I'm sorry but now I'm all panicked I'm doing it wrong. Please ladies chime in if what I do is absolutely insane. I'm worrying that it is. TMI warning ahead.

According to my understanding of TCOYF. When determining VS I pay attention to how I feel when I walk, sit down, go about my life. I know I have felt a distinguishable difference between actively producing EWCM fertile and the rest of the time. Though the rest of the time can be like now when its wet/watery, or I feel nothing I can easily determine. When I cant determine it for sure I've gone by how it feels when I sit on the toilet, if I felt like things had to unstick or that it feels dry between my inner lips down there I have gone with that. Would it be better to not chart VS if I can't tell clearly by just walking around?

When determining CM I have always checked internally (I'm trying to learn my cervix too but dont chart it) and chart what I see on my fingers, I also check strechyness and consistency like creamy or sticky ect. How do you check CM at the vulva? Do you just swipe it with a finger externally and see if anything is there? I have done that a few times and when I'm really fertile I get EWCM, and sometimes post O I have gotten clearly creamy CM from an external swipe of the vulva. Like if I did that now it's watery and a little cloudy. But otherwise, I get nothing substantial on an external swipe so I check internally.

And thats how I have adapted charting for myself... I feel incredibly stupid typing it out and am now 99% sure I'm completely wrong. Ladies... be honest.

I knew on the morning of CD16 something changed because my previous days EWCM was completely gone and I felt very much drier than the last few days. I suspected O especially with the wicked cramping I had the previous day gone as well. But my temps didn't go like they had in previous months. After 2 days with no spike and this insanely slow climb I worry. So... I'm going to hope my bladder does not wake me up 2 hours before temp time and see what tomorrow holds.

Post shower my VS feels kind of wet when walking around but there isn't much change from pre shower. I think I'm going to keep it as wet/gooey VS and milky/creamy for CM since it's kinda watery and cloudy... milky? FF is easy... watery CM is separate from EWCM, not so in TCOYF. Sometimes I wonder if paper charting would be easier... I can write in my own crazyness for observations. LOL!
Don't feel stupid! TCOYF is vague about internal/external checking and all that I've really seen it say is that whichever way you choose to check cm, to check it the same way every time (i.e. always internally or always externally but not back and forth). There's even a diagram for doing internal checks.

That's how I check cm too, so it certainly isn't just you. If that's not proper technique for BOM, I'm not opposed to learning about his method and seeing which works better for me. Personally I'm a little wary of external only checks because like you, I don't feel or see very much until EWCM time and also I shave that area and on days I shave, I put coconut oil on as a moisturizer - it's on the outside obviously, but it creates a false "slippery" sensation and thus throws off my natural sensation for that day . That said, I admittedly don't know a lot about BOM aside from the little nuggets I pick up from Shawna's posts.

What you're describing is certainly within the parameters of what TCOYF teaches, though, so definitely don't feel stupid!

TCOYF doesn't give you a lot of options for cm. I go with the closest thing and then on my paper chart write a little more detail.
__________________


*Cautiously and excitedly expecting number two - shhh, if we're friends on Facebook. *



Thank you to Babydoll213 for my fabulous siggie!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
August 18th, 2012, 08:30 AM
ShawnaCAN's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 11,397
Well the reason internal mucus observations are less accurate is because during the infertile parts of the cycle, the mucus changes as it passes form inside to outside the body. It passes over glands call the Pockets of Shaw and they suck they water out of the mucus, so you notice a drier feeling externally than you did before. Progesterone is what triggers this. So going in to find the mucus internally with your fingers disrupts this process and can make you think you have more fertile mucus days than you actually do, or make identifying the mucus Peak more confusing! I don't know if TCOYF really covers that! There is also natural moisture inside the vagina at all times, this can make it hard to determine what is truly mucus and what is normal vaginal moisture. Mucus has enough weight to it to flow outside the body, vaginal moisture does not.

But all that said, don't worry too much about doing it exactly perfectly! I'm just trying to make it simpler for you so it's not too confusing! Observing VS just means paying attention to what you feel as you go about your day. When you notice that you don't feel much of anything, that's because of the Pockets of Shaw doing their job! VS is the more important observation, because you can feel microscopic amount of mucus that way.

Then in terms of what you see, just have a quick glance at the toilet paper or underwear. That's it. There's really no need to touch it at all, or stretch it, or go searching for it internally. Keeping tabs on how you feel (VS) and anything you happen to see is all you need!
Keakie likes this.
__________________

Last edited by ShawnaCAN; August 20th, 2012 at 10:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
August 20th, 2012, 09:36 PM
Twin Mama
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: California
Posts: 2,230
NO TCOYF does not go over that, very interesting! I didn't know that at all! I'm really intrigued now since I never see mucos on my undies, and only when im super fertile will I see it on TP. Yet I always have some cloudy CM at the vulva pre and post O, the texture varies but its there. I'm getting way better at identifying my fertile time and everything else blurs into this cream/sticky/wet nonsense. Just keep trying!

I had a 3rd temp above my 'coverline' today so my overall shift was slow but I can't deny I ovulated. For once my FF chart seems to be most accurate. I'll share that chart since it's more obvious my overall shift.

My FF Ovulation Chart

We'll know by the end of the week if I need to keep paying attention to this stuff, LOL! I hope not for about 9+ months.
__________________
Brianna(26) & Anthony(27)
Star(woof) & Harley(meow)



Reply With Quote
  #18  
August 20th, 2012, 11:01 PM
ShawnaCAN's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 11,397
Wooo hooo!!! There it is, nice shift!
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Topic Tools Search this Topic
Search this Topic:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:12 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0