[baabaamilker]

So I've been browsing around other posts and absorbing your knowledge about NFP. I decided it was time to break out the book I received when attending classes for the Creighton Model about ten years ago. I only attended two classes because we neither wanted to avoid getting pregnant nor were we having any fertility issues at the time. I know I could have stayed in the classes and learned a ton more, but the lack of want to would have kept me from really following it to the fullest.

So during this time TTA I thought it would be a better time to get a little more aquainted with my body.

I'm learning through your posts that sensation is more important and I think it would certainly help me as I'm almost constantly observing mucus, very rarely do I have no mucus. If I could just make myself pay attention to the sensation as I go about my busy day, that's the key.

The other thing I've never really done completely is observed my particular mucus pattern (you would call this basic infertile pattern?). I've had very few cycles between having children that I could do that with. It's never been so important to me as it is now while trying to determine exactly what's going on with my body.

So anyway, time to go bury my nose in this book and pick up where I left off ten years ago.

Just wanted to thank you though. I know I get under your skin, but I appreciate your wisdom.

[ShawnaCAN]

Oh that's great to hear you dug out your Creighton book! That one will really emphasize the sensation you feel while wiping, as opposed to what I teach - sensation while walking around. That's just one of the differences between the Creighton Model and the Billings Ovulation Method. Just focus on one way of observing it though, keep it simple!

Originally Posted by baabaamilker

The other thing I've never really done completely is observed my particular mucus pattern (you would call this basic infertile pattern?). I've had very few cycles between having children that I could do that with.

Oh, well you have to re-establish the Basic Infertile Pattern after each pregnancy anyway. It's not something that stays the same, it can change.
Creighton calls it the Essential Sameness Pattern, you'll probably come across it in your book. Since you're cycling, it will take 3 cycles to establish your Basic Infertile Pattern. Until then, every observation from menstruation until ovulation has to be considered potentially fertile, except for complete dryness.

[baabaamilker]

Ok, great, thanks. I also found a PDF online that explains the differences between BOM and Creighton. It was fairly long so I haven't had the opportunity to read it all the way through yet. I'm really looking forward to paying more attention to sensation rather than what I see. I've been seeing what could be classified as EWCM here and there but I certainly don't have the lube feeling either while walking around or while wiping.

I had another temp spike, and I've noticed that with these spikes I feel a little bloated and the vulva feels fuller (this being the second spike this cycle). *Just thinking out loud*.

If we assumed that I was absolutely right about when I ovulated with each recorded cycle and that my temps would rise 10-15 days after ovulation. Do you have any idea how that could be possible? I mean it seems strange that the Corpus Luteum could not be strong enough to produce progesterone right after ovulating but it could ten days later. The only thought I had that could be possible has to do with the progesterone receptors not working correctly. Just thought I'd pick your brain about that.

[ShawnaCAN]

Originally Posted by baabaamilker

I had another temp spike, and I've noticed that with these spikes I feel a little bloated and the vulva feels fuller (this being the second spike this cycle). *Just thinking out loud*.

The swollen vulva is a sign that we teach with the Billings Ovulation Method. It usually only corresponds to successful ovulation and usually goes hand in hand with a slippery and/or lubricated sensation. If you do happen to observe this, chart it!

Originally Posted by baabaamilker

If we assumed that I was absolutely right about when I ovulated with each recorded cycle and that my temps would rise 10-15 days after ovulation. Do you have any idea how that could be possible? I mean it seems strange that the Corpus Luteum could not be strong enough to produce progesterone right after ovulating but it could ten days later. The only thought I had that could be possible has to do with the progesterone receptors not working correctly. Just thought I'd pick your brain about that.

I've never heard of a thermal shift being off by more than a few days, certainly not 10 - 15. I don't think it's possible. I think it's much more likely that confusion with the CM and other signs is leading to errors with identifying ovulation, so that's why the thermal shifts don't seem to be lining up. A better understanding of the CM will hopefully clear that up and make it easier to identify. It's very possible for your body to produce CM and attempt ovulation, but then something disrupts the process and ovulation does not occur at that time. Your body can try again later in the cycle. You may be assuming this first attempt is ovulation, and then maybe the real thing is happening later when your thermal shift occurs.

[baabaamilker]

I would agree with that but the wrench in it all is that two cycles in a row I got positive blood tests (albeit at home, but it's done the same way as in the laboratory) about 8-10 days after I believe I ovulated based on CM.

We used this same method of blood testing during my last set of miscarriages about three years ago.

On the swollen vulva do you think that it would occur twice in one cycle? and why do you think that it correlates with temp spikes like that? I also realized that when I mentioned bloated I didn't explain that I was only referring to my stomach in the uterus area, I don't really notice bloating anywhere else.

The really strange thing is that I predicted today's temp spike based upon how I felt last night. The majority of this cycle I had been staying up late with no problems, not at all feeling exceptionally tired. Last night by time all the kids were in bed I was ready for bed and pooped. I thought to myself, I wonder if this is an indication of the rise in progesterone and if I'm going to have a temp spike.

If I read my last few cycles correctly and I really did ovulate when I thought, and if this cycle is going to follow the same pattern of temperatures then I would expect my temp now to stay above coverline. So we shall see tomorrow how that goes.

I've have not had any other fertile mucus this cycle other than the watery mucus accompanied by mucus very lightly mixed with dark blood, and a very small bright red spot of blood on the toilet paper on CD 10.

The two days I recorded EWCM were not accompanied by a lube feeling, but a sticky feeling.

My past cycles this postpartum I've felt very confident that I knew when I ovulated. This cycle is strange and different from any of those, so I'm not quite as confident. Not being under any pregnancy hormones this cycle will be helpful once a new cycle starts in telling me what is going on (well at least to some degree).

Thank you for your help in hashing out ideas about what is going on. Sure wish I had all the fancy equipment for monitoring such things right in my own home. It sure would be a lot of fun to see how everything inside was working and corresponding with the things that I can monitor on the outside.

[ShawnaCAN]

Originally Posted by baabaamilker

On the swollen vulva do you think that it would occur twice in one cycle? and why do you think that it correlates with temp spikes like that?

It would be very unusual to have a full or swollen vulva more than once per cycle (unless it's related to something else, like really aggressive lovemaking or something). Usually this sign corresponds with successful ovulation only, but not with failed attempts at ovulation. I think it correlates to your temp spikes because that's around the time you're actually ovulating.

Originally Posted by baabaamilker

I've have not had any other fertile mucus this cycle other than the watery mucus accompanied by mucus very lightly mixed with dark blood, and a very small bright red spot of blood on the toilet paper on CD 10.

You can ovulate even the mucus doesn't reach Peak. Sometimes the ovaries do their job beautifully, but the cervix doesn't do it's job as beautifully in terms of the production of mucus. The watery mucus and spotting is still highly fertile though!